My 5 month old Border Collie has his lower canine growing into his upper gums
(He was born with an overshot mouth)
any advice re: Having them removed or grinding down & rootcanal treatment
Already been quoted £200 for removal or £900 for the best???
has anyone experienced having healthy teeth removed in your dog?

Our old mongrel had to have a lower canine removed after half of it got broken off - the only problem it ever gave him was when he tried to catch tennis balls and the ball would shoot out of the side without the tooth! As your boy needs both done he wouldn't have that 'lopsided' problem.

As an aside, and this is in no way meant as a criticism of you or your dog, this is why breeders take so much care in selecting breeding stock with correct mouths. Some people think it's being overly picky, but a bad mouth can cause a dog painful problems.

Are you absolutely sure that the mouth won't go right.  The head can carry on growing up to the age of two, are you sure the upper jaw has finished growing?  One boy from my last litter had a beautiful scissor bite that went level at 7 1/2 months.  Has now got a most beautiful scissor bite at 14 months old.  Could you perhaps be rushing into doing  something to his teeth that might eventually even out?

Hi Thanks for your reply
2 different vets have said his mouth is terribly overshot!
in 2 months we have had him his bite seems to have lesson but his lower jaw is perhaps 1/2" less
when his mouth is closed his lower canine teeth are sitting in the holes where his milk teeth came out
the vet said that as his teeth continue to grow they will grow right up through his nose which really sounds awful
they may just want the work and money to take them out but i can't take the chance that his bite will correct as it was very overshot at 3 months old

Hi Thanks for comments
My dog was bred from an experienced show breeder from the south east anglian Border Collie club
apparantly because of her so called carefull and show champ interbreeding this pup (1 out of a litter of 8)
had an overshot mouth
He had been eye checked and both parents hip scored but because of his mouth the breeder couldn't show him so sold him to me as a family pet (i researched and asked vets for advice before making the final decision)
He could eat, drink and chew fine with his mouth so was advised the only possible problem would be when he grew his adult teeth where they would bite when he closes his mouth
I do not and will not breed with him either due to this problem, but thought i would take on this pup as he was a bit extra special

hi helen,
i had the same problem with one of my pups.  i bought him knowing full well he was overshot and was quite happy to take him, knowing all the problems it could incur.  anyway his lower canine was growing into his upper palate creating quite a big ulcer in the roof of his mouth!  so having him referred to a canine dentist i decided to go for the grinding down and root canal as working as a vet nurse i know how hard it is to remove healthy canine teeth, the roots are the same size as what you can see above the gum!  if you want to email me feel free and i will try to help with any questions you have as the doggy dentist was good enough to let me stay with my boy during the procedure and explained it all in depth as he went along,
HTH,
kelly

Hi Thanks for yopur reply
just wondering if the grinding & root filling will be permanent?
need to think of both options and having a tough time trying to decide
the breeder says she would have them taken out so that will be the end of it, as humans have many problems with root treatment
she also said that she had never come acrss it before but a shelty she bred had an overshot mouth and all teeth were fine

yes it should be!
my boy had had the intitial surgery done, and then returned a short while after few weeks/month for an x ray to check the root canal had taken and it had! :-)  he is now 4 and a bit and had the work done about 2 years ago and he has had no further problems.  to be honest i forget about it and he has chicken wings and huge knuckle bones to chew on just iike the others.  there may a possibility of work needed in the furture if something happens but i am pleased with the result.  the dentist i referred my boy to has a site
http://www.dacross.com/

there are details of the filling type of work my boy had done here

http://www.dacross1.demon.co.uk/vetdentinfo/v-endo.html

you could find out if he has a refferal clinic in your area or get him referred to the clinics he has listed on the site to get him to check your dog and discuss what he thinks is the best treatment.  your vet has to refer you though,
regards,
kelly

Not sure if it is any help, but I had a CAT like this. I opted to have the teeth extracted as a) it was cheaper and b) it seemed the safer bet. He was absolutely fine afterwards. I had him neutered at the same time as he was under anyway (he had been bought as a stud cat, obviously that wasn't going to happen now.)

Hi thanks for your reply
yes i'm thinking having them taken out and also having him neutered but the breeder said her vet doesn't neuter till at least a year old as it can stunt their growth!!!?
My vet says they neuter at minimum 6 months
As i'm thinking while his under as long as its not too much to have the same as your cat

Early neutering actually delays the closure of the growth plates on the long bones, so the animal ends up marginally taller than it would have done otherwise.

Hi Helen,

You might be interested in the article below.  It suggests that in some instances (sadly not all) the problem can be corrected without surgery/dental devices.  I have actually seen it work where the canine teeth were too upright and were growing into the top gums instead of outside of the top gums:)  If you did decide to try it you would still have the option of dental treatment if the bottom jaw doesn't 'catch up' ;)   The biggest thing is to get a rubber ball of just the right size for the dog, a visit to PAH would probably sort that out tho :)

http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00047.htm

Good luck whatever you decide to do :)

No experience with a dog, but one of our cats came to us aged 8 from the CPL and she has terrible teeth - bad tartar.  So far she's had to go to the vets on 2 separate occassions to have several teeth removed, so many we've considered renaming her 'gummy'.  Apart from looking sorry for herself when she came home, and being sore in the mouth for a few days she recovered quickly both times.

She still does excellently well, eating her normal tinned cat food and her dried biscuits with no problems at all.

I wouldn't worry about your pup at all with regards to the actual extraction and recovery.

Minny,

Hasn't the vet suggested LOGIC GEL to help keep the tartar at bay ??   I found that it shifted quite bad tartar and scaling wasn't even necessary, I just flicked it off with a fingernail after a week :) the gums weren't too bad tho ;)

Hi

When Amy was a little pup she had what is described as 'base narrow canine'.  Her bottom teeth were growing into her palate.  We took her to a doggie dentist and he fitted her with the doggie version of a brace.  She had to go every week to have it checked but it did the job and she was fine.  The brace did not bother her one little bit. 

Carol

Hi Helen
I must also tell you of a friend whose Rough Collie was terribly overshot at about 5 1/2 months.  She actually said to me that she would not be able to show her.  The mouth went absolutely fine by about 9 months.  I would like to think that this MAY happen and save any surgery that the vets are talking about.  However, there aren't any guarantees are there.

Hi Dill,

Nope, no-ones ever suggested anything, except perhaps cleaning her teeth.  We did try, but the cat is pretty set in her ways and I value my fingers so we gave up upsetting her so much by trying to brush them.

Is Logic Gel something available in Pet Stores?

Thanks

Hi Minny,

I've never seen LOGIC DENTAL GEL in petshops, but you can buy it from Vets and places like
Canine Chemists

don't worry about the canine bit, LOGIC is also used for cats ;)

I didn't expect the GEL to loosen Plaque but after about a week of using it, I was able to flick the plaque off (some had already fallen off )

I'm surprised the vet didn't suggest it, but maybe they'd prefer to scale the cat's teeth ;)

I can do anything with my cat but tooth brushing ain't possible ;)

Hi
i've never had a cat - just dogs
but thought i might mention - in case someone else has done it or tells you not to???
My sister has 2 cats
the kitten is about 6 months old and she gave her a cooked lamb shank bone!
my mum watched her as she said my dog would love it but after watching she told me my sisters cat loved it even more
she said she had never seen or knew a cat could eat a bone! The kitten demolised it all
may be worth asking a vet re; things a cat can chew on to help clean their teeth as once they have been descaled or cleaned they will probably need something?
Helen

My sister has 2 cats the kitten is about 6 months old and she gave her a cooked lamb shank bone!

No cooked bones should be given to a cat or a dog Raw bones are fine that's what cats & dogs teeth are designed to chew on How totally irrespensible to give a kitten a cooked bone

So how come they sell cooked bones in pet shops and market stalls?

How come they sell doughnuts in bakers and on market stalls? They're not healthy either, yet people still buy them.