I had a look at some older threads about introducing cats and dogs and it got me thinking- which is easier to have first and then introduce to the other? (Don't worry I have no intention of going to buy kittens and puppies and conduct my own experiments! This is all purely hypothetical- I'm the only one in my family who likes cats, I think I'd be disowned if I ever got a cat!) What experiences have people had introducing the different species? Has anyone had to do it both ways (dog to cat/cat to dog)? Is it more difficult one way than the other? Or even just got both at the same time? What about birds or other furries?

I'd be really interested to read different people's experiences and viewpoints.
Thank you!

In my experience, it's best havng the dog first, because cats noses are far easier put out of joint, and you can't train a cat but you can train a dog so far easier introducing a dog to a cat than vice versa. :) When I got my first dog my cat NEVER went near me again for the rest of his life -that was another 14 years!

Oh Goldmali that's really sad.  My only experience of this is having my 2 cats first and introducing my now year old dobe to them.  They were unimpressed to say the least, but never held a grudge against me for introducing the hell beast as I'm sure they see her :-)  It did take until Ciara was 7 months before things started to get back to normal.  All is well now but I did have my doubts at times.  I have a Burmese and a Siamese and the Siamese is actually quite protective over me with Ciara, if Ciara and I are playing on the floor and I start making silly noises and Ciara is pulling her wrinkled nose face Tanzie will come running over and take a swipe, although she has got better and doesn't seem as bothered by this any longer.  Tanzie obviously has more of a don't mess with me air about her coz if she's sat in the gap about 2ft wide to get into the kitchen then Ciara won't walk past her, (big girls blouse) but she will quite happily walk past Rica my Burmese who appears to be just as much of a madam with Ciara at times when Ciara is trying to encourage the cats to play which is always responded to with a hiss and a dap (Ciara is convinced this is all part of play and that instead of 'bog off and leave me alone' it actually means 'this is fun bug me some more')

It's a totally different relationship with cats and dogs but I really wouldn't want to be without either.

Karen

Well, I am due to find out next month as we will be bringing home a kitten to introduce to my 9 month old german shepherd bitch. It should be interesting to say the least. I have been advised to conduct the introduction very slowly, so we are going to crate the kitten in my bitches old crate (which is massive) when we bring the kitten home, and then let my shepherd sniff around the crate and go from there over a week long period. I think you have to be careful because of the risk an irate cat/kitten can do to a dogs nose and eyes, and the retaliation that could come from a dog. I think though it might be easier to have the dog first, as my partner's mums cat absolutely hates my puppy when we stay over at hers, but she has been fine with all the dogs that have been in the family before she arrived.
Anyway, we shall see how it goes and I will report back with my findings!

I have introduced several afghan pups to an established cat....the cat was streetwise enough to get control over the gullible pups at once. None of my dogs subsequently dared chase the cat due to lessons learned. They however do not feel the same about any other cats, and now that my old Teabag has gone to the Rainbow Bridge I would not consider introducing a new kitten, for fear it could not stand its ground. If I had to I would try to introduce an older cat who was experienced with dogs, but I would still be very careful.

Cathy

Personally I wouldn't dare try introducing a kitten to adult dogs if they've never known cats before. My current dogs would consider a kitten to be a light snack!

However an adult cat is usually bigger and more agile than a puppy, and will be able to defend itself.

I had 2 cats before I got my Welsh Tr Woody it took a few weeks but then it was totally fine.  Jasmine doesnt take any nonsense from him & they seem to have a mutal respect to stay away from each other although she doesnt mind him having a sniff the first time they see each other everyday but that always ends in a sharp punch to the nose the off they go to do their own thing.  Ulli is not so bold but likes to tease him by wiggling her bum & tail & then jumping on to my desk out of reach.  18 months ago I took a 4 week old male kitten off my neighbours from hell kids(they had disturbed the mother a feral's nest) after I saw them trying to feed it dairylee slices!  Woody my Welsh & Tabbie the cat are the best of friends.  In the mornings when wood is let out first thing, he waits in the same spot for tabbie to come over the wall & they greet each other with a lick & a head rub, woody then sniffs & checks everything is ok.  Later on in the day they can usually be found sleeping next to each other on the bed or Tabbies favourite thing to lay their while woody licks his ears & gennerally grooms him!  They even have a game they play on a regular basis which involves Tabbie teasing woody abit to get him running around then everytime woody runs towards tabbie he shoots straight up in the air jumping over woody.

Someone elses cat thats another matter!

we have in the past successfully introduced rabbits,ferrets,mice,hamsters,rats and cats to our established dogs, just have to be patient and wary!

I would be very scared of my dog meeting a cat, just because i would have no idea how he would react. I know he has the tendancy to chase as on lead he goes wappy if we see a cat, but would not be quite sure how he would react if he got close enough. This is an interesting one as i know lots of cats and dogs do get on. My husband also within his work came across a household with cats dog and hen, and the hen ruled the roost so to speak!!

From what I have heard if you manage the introduction carefully, you are effectively introducing a new memeber of the pack, and cats in the garden or on walks may remain 'fair game' in your dogs eyes, but the cat from your pack is different. I think you definitely have to be sensitive to the needs of the cat/kitten and your dog, but I am positive it can be done. I have had a few concerns and worries (you know, along the lines of my dog seeing the kitten as a new toy/dinner) but we are confident now we have a plan on how to introduce them that they will get on. I think the thing to remember is not to expect miracles, as it might take weeks, but I hope in my case they will be good company and friends eventually. My 9 month old shepherd is a real sweetheart and a softy, but equally, in the garden, if a cat dares enter her tail will go straight up and shes off chasing it out, but I have spoken to three different trainers at our club, our vet and my dog's breeder, and all say as long as you take the introduction slowly, and in stages, and remain vigilent and senstivie to the needs of both animals, there is no reason why a kitten cannot be introduced to your dog and that they can become friendly. Anyway, keep your fingers cross on that one for me!

Just to put a spoke in the wheel (I've obviously got too much time on my hands at the moment): why do you have cats?  What does a cat give you that a dog doesn't give you a thousand times better?

I will admit to having a pretty jaundiced view. Until I got the dogs, neighbours' cats killed the wild birds, dug up garden plants and occasionally sprayed up the garden gate or greenhouse door - lovely.  My sister-in-law has six of the little s*ds which systematically shred the carpets, scrape the wallpaper and apparently require litter trays in every room - again lovely. (I knew they jumped on the kitchen work surfaces and gritted my teeth but the final straw came when I saw the paw prints on the Christmas cake icing...) They also make me sneeze and I've never met a cat that didn't want to show me its anus in cloe-up.

So come on, what it is about the self-centred, bird-slaughtering, destructive, bottom-flaunting little gits that you all like?

(Have you ever looked into their eyes? There's nothing there I tell you!.)

  

Just to put a spoke in the wheel (I've obviously got too much time on my hands at the moment): why do you have cats?  What does a cat give you that a dog doesn't give you a thousand times better?

Well in my case I could never be without one or the other -I am not a dog person OR cat person, I am BOTH and always have been.

Dogs to me you have fun with, do things with, TRAIN (above anything else for me), go for walks with, they guard you. Cats you have for cuddles, friendship where THEY are firmly in chare of YOU :D , to sit on your lap -I am the sort of person who do not ever want any dog regardless of size on my furniture or on my lap, they all stay on the floor. But last night when laying on the couch to watch telly I counted to 6 cats on and around me on the couch. :) (Thing is, the cats always have clean paws, the dogs do not!) And you don't have to walk the cats or train them so can just be lazy with them. :)

And BOTH you show and breed and try to improve the quality of the breeds of. :)

Oh and I forgot to say, it has to be said cats are more intelligent than dogs. :) They can always outsmart dogs. (Which is why you can't train cats, too smart for that. :D ) Bird slaughtering? Nah, you keep your pet birds safe in a locked room. :) (Obviously nobody responsible lets their cats go outside unattended!!)

i didnt used to like cats, until for some reason i got 2 littermates last year- devon rex crosses, born in a nearby forest. i fell in love with them, their appearance, their characters, and habits, and sounds! cats give you a lot yet dont depend totally on you. they do have a look in their eyes- it depends on their mood!

they are great for quiet cuddles and snoozes, also when you sit out in the garden they come sit with me, read with me, DRINK with me, do the gardening with me! all sorts.

dogs are great (of course) but cats are good in other ways. i have seen cats in great pain (at work) and trust me- they can tell you just by looking at you, or they show you- very intelligent creatures. i still cant believe i like em!

Goldmali, from your posts you appear to have no dogs on your lap/furniture.  Does that include your papillon?  My papillon thinks the furniture is there entirely for her benefit and she doesn't just sit on my lap but across my shoulders too if she gets a chance (very cat like). 

I love cats (used to have 5) as well as dogs but even in the countryside the roads are a deathtrap and I can't go through that anymore.  The only cat I have now is a streetwise stray who adopted me years ago.  The dogs take absolutely no notice of her as she stands her ground and refuses to run away.   

Goldmali, from your posts you appear to have no dogs on your lap/furniture.  Does that include your papillon?

Yes. :) I don't want to risk his frail legs breaking by jumping off furniture. He's too small to ever be able to jump up onto any furniture in any case, he just can't reach. :) So he'll stand on his hindlegs with his frontlegs resting on the side of the couch and can stay like that for ages getting his head and chest stroked, he even falls asleep.

I can understand about not wanting him to get hurt.  I was told by the breeder of mine that if they can jump up, then it's safe to let them jump down.  Iris is a bit of a kangaroo and can jump and leap all over the place.  She's obviously a bit bigger than yours Goldmali, although judging from the ones I saw at Crufts last month still on the smaller side for the breed. 

As a real tiny puppy she was so determined to climb on my lap that if I sat with my legs crossed she would manage to climb up.  She's scared me rigid many times but thankfully she does seem to realise her limits and has never hurt herself.

I know it might sound funny, but this is the way it seems to pan out with everyone I have met with a cat.

First comes marriage,
Then comes a kitten/kittens
Then comes the baby
Then comes the dog

Sometimes the later two are the other way around, but the kitten seems to be the first on scence as a cuddly tester.

Poor Goldmali - some cats just never accept a dog.

I can see there are some variations here, but that is the way that most people seem to come about having cats and dogs.

We are getting a kitten really as companionship for my dog on one side, but also because we cared for a stray for a while until we could trace its owners, and I got quite attached to the idea of getting a cat and having one around. I must admit though, I think for me dogs get into your heart in a way a cat can't, but that is just in terms of me - I am more of a dog person, but that doesn't mean our cat won't have a very loving and happy home. I think cats are totally different to dogs to be honest, so I can't really compare the,. I must say though, when I went to see my pup for the first time at 4 weeks, the feels I had were overwhelming. When I went to see our kitten at two weeks, it felt good, but not like it did when I saw my pup. Horses for courses I suppose!

i would say- dont get a cat if you think it'll be a companion for the dog- it may not go that way, but- a more positive note- my dog was brought up with cats and now with us- she and the cats are best mates- they groom each other and nestle in bed together- but they dont substitute for when we are not at home.

i got 3 x 9 week old kittens, and then i got a 13 week old GSD about a month later. they all got on very well. i then went on to intorduce 3 other young pups to my cats and the cats have all accepted the dogs. the last pup i intoroduced had not seen cats his whole life, he is 8 months old.
i think it is ewasier to get kittens then intorduce the dogs fist. that way the kittens settle into the hoem and make it there territory and are less likely to leave.

i did try to home a 18 month old cat who had never seen dogs before. he refused to live with me , becasue of the dogs.

personally i think it is best to intoroduce kittens and puppies together as young as possible. an older dog will tolerate a dog proof cat, but i cat wont neccaserily tolerate a docat proof dog. all my cats and dogs sleep, eat and play together.

I really think it has mostly to do with the disposition of each animal.  I've always had dogs and cats together and the introductions have been varied; old dog to kitten, puppy to old cat, existing adult to new adult of either cat or dog.  Mostly they have tolerated each other.  Once a new adult dog was so jealous of the existing adult cat they had to be kept separate all the dog's life yet this same dog happily visited with the VEt clinic cats.  To make it all worthwhile, there are few things as wonderful as seeing a full grown Lab (substitute your breed here) wrapped up in the arms of a young kitten while they wrestle and the kitten always wins.

Hi

I've done the introductions both ways ie. puppies brought in to a household with adult cats and kittens introduced to adult cats and dogs and I can honestly say it was easier to introduce the kittens to the household with adult cats & dogs.

When I introduced my puppies to a household with 3 adult cats the cats took quite a long time to accept the puppies. When I introduced two kittens to the house with three adult cats & two adult dogs the kittens followed the dogs around and still are the most dog-like cats that I know! As the kittens were occupied with the dogs, the other cats just accepted that they were new members of the family and weren't in the least bit bothered as the kittens didn't bother them.

If I had to do it again I would always introduce kittens to dogs rather than the other way round.

Regards

Canine Chic

You've made me feel so much better about introducing a kitten to my girl!
I am going to make up a safe place for my kitten in my girls old crate and start the introduction after the kitten has settled in. I thought the crate would at least make sure the kitten is safe and also give my girl a chance to sniff about without getting a scratch - do you think that's a good idea?

my cat came out of her room today for the first time in the 3 years since we got the dog, so.....given time......

To be honest I do NOT think a crate for the KITTEN is a good idea, with the dog outside. It's more likely to freak the kitten out, cats need to be able to actually ESCAPE and hide or jump up onto something, they will feel totally exposed in crate.

Nonononono!

Sorry, but putting the kitten in the crate with the dog outside is a bad move! Have the dog (big predator) confined, while the kitten (small prey = yummy) is free to escape when it wants.

Sorry, but this is the course of action advised by organisations like Cats Protection in their information leaflets, so I am only going by the information suggested. They suggest using something called a kitten crate, but it is essentially exactly the same thing. I have not just come up with that idea myself, I am just following the advice I have seen in books and information leaflets, and what two dog trainers suggested. What else should I do then?

It's just that I was doing a homecheck for a couple wanting a rescue dog - they already had two cats. They'd brought home a rescue dog from a kennels, with crate, and had put the cats into the crate to let the dog get used to them.

HUGE mistake. The cats were terrified, went ballistic not being able to escape, and one was quite badly injured in the struggle to get away.

The dog goes in the crate - it's vital the cats can get away.

Exactly JG, this is what I said..........

Me too, in the earlier post. The smaller, more vulnerable one needs the freedom to escape. The big confident one is the one that needs to be confined. :)

You're best off listening to people with BOTH dogs AND cats -not anybody who deals with just the one species such as the CP or a dog trainer. :) I explained in an earlier thread to you what to do:
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin/board/topic_show.pl?pid=696252;hl=;hlm=and#pid696252
-I have had cats and dogs together since 1978 and currently have 8 dogs and around 20 cats in the house. Kitten must be FREE, able to escape away from dog, and very best way to achieve this is via GATES as cats can always squeeze through the bars, a GSD can not. :)

OK, I will ditch the crate idea, but I don't want people to think I just came up with that to be nasty to the cat - it is recommended as standard in a lot of kitten books (the RSPCA complete kitten care book for example) and the Cats Protection produce a leaflet advising how to introduce a new kitten/cat to an existing pet, be that a dog or a cat, saying the same thing.

My only suggestion is to make sure the kitten's little hooks are trimmed nice and short for a while.

I have had cats and dogs for about 30 years now and never had any problems.  I currently have 3 adult cats, an elderly collie, a young adult whippet and a young adult papillon (both bought as pups).  My biggest problem is that the papillon thinks the cats are just another type of dog!  He tries to play with them as if they are dogs.  The whippet has learnt that cats are NOT for chasing.  The cats, in turn, have learned that if they don't run they won't be chased.  Sometimes a couple of them will play with the papillon - when they tire of it they just jump up on something out of the way (like the dining room table!).  We have even taken in a rescue dog (big chance, I know) who was quite happy to accept 'his' cats but would never accept any passing stranger going through 'his' garden.  It's always the dog (or pup) who must be controlled/restrained and the cats free to escape.  And if you have even the slightest of doubts, never, never leave them alone unsupervised.

LOL that describes my Papillon exactly!! Always playing with the cats. I swear the big dogs still haven't worked out what HE is -is he a funny looking cat or a funny looking dog?!

Thankfully my cats put up with a lot, but when the Pap was a tiny pup he went too far with one cat who'd recently lost a litter of kittens and wasn't in the best of moods, so she whacked him and punctured his eye which he nearly lost. Haven't dared to have that cat in the house since then just in case.

Our cat (Bob) is 15 years old and a very spoiled fat one at that (OH's before I met him :rolleyes:).  He didn't take too kindly to our puppy Misty (gr) who we got 2 weeks ago.  Misty obviously wanted to play, Bob was having none of it and promptly took off in a huff (like I said, he is spoilt). 

We have stairgates at the bottom and top of the stairs (already in situ due to our young son) and now find Bob has made his home on the stairs (he can squeeze through the bars but it is a tight fit! ) but it seems to suit him.  He has his little safe area where Misty cannot get to.  And after a few years of being a lazy cat and not climbing fences or even fighting his own battles with other cats straying into our garden (we used to have to go out and rescue him :rolleyes:!!), we actually found him on top of the fence yesterday (6 ft high with no way of getting on the top unless you make a jump for it) and today he actually saw off another cat.  Misty has obviously given him a new lease and purpose in life!! :D :D