I have re-read my posts and I accept it could read that he has been freely acting like this with many many dogs and I have been allowing it. I didn’t write the post with as much care as I should because I didn’t expect such personal responses as to have my bits cut off, despite a smiley face.

He acted like this overnight, it took me by surprise one day he would meet greet and play or leave and come the instant he was called. Other owners would smile and enjoy the dogs playing. The next day he went up to a dog the same as before and acted like a nasty bully, it all changed so quickly that I was unprepared for it and yes I'm sorry he did grab or bite (whatever you want to call it) a small dog ONCE and I couldn’t believe he had acted like that. I’m sorry to that owner and did apologise (a lot) he caught me by surprise, it was the first time and I am guilty. The very next day he went up to a larger dog and it growled at him (never happened before) and he growled back (picked my jaw up of the ground), I put him on the lead. Again it happened the following day but this time he wouldn’t let a dog past, tried twice to place his paw on the other dogs neck and looked like he was going for a grab, I called him away, he ignored the command so I took him away, the owner thought they where playing but by this time I had my suspicions. One or two similar situations of grumbling and play turning into attempted mounting and I immediately wrote the original post, perhaps not as well thought out as it could have been. I upped the recall training and he learned within the days since my original post. As a result of this forum he spends more time on the lead, especially when we see another owner place their dog on the lead or already has theirs on the lead.

Still don’t think you should smack dogs, they need to respect you for the person not your hand. But I could yet be proved wrong.

youve already said it was overnight----yet you say it changed from the playful mounting he was already doing :EEK: . it should of been stopped the very first time it started, it may of seemed like playful mounting to you but the dog obviously enjoyed it and now that hes older is willing to force the issue,
as for smacking him-dominating him etc, id suspect if he saw you as the pack leader he wouldnt be so keen to be off bonking every poor unsuspecting dog he meets!, he'd be too busy keeping an eye on you and wondering what it is youd be wanting him to do next!!!------ive owned big powerful dominant breeds of dog, succesfull stud dogs, that wouldnt of dared go up and try anything on while out for a walk with me, not because i smacked him. but because as he was growing he learned a healthy respect for me, im afraid this is what your dog is lacking, ----put the shoe on the other foot, im sure you'd complain about him too :D ---one of the reasons i suggested castration-his not yours, not as an easy option ,but one that might help in a situation that should never of been allowed to develope,

Dogs play mount for many developmental reasons, for example to develop a pelvic thrust to mate. It's natural and it's play when they are young. If everybody where to never ever once let a young dog play mount as you claim to do then it would put a bit of a dampener on breeding. I'm sorry but your argument for castration is week. You suggested my dog should be castrated because of 3 days of adolescent behaviour, which has now been controlled. Imagine if I had taken your advice to heart.

How do you know your dog has a healthy respect for you and not your hand? Did he tell you? At least if a dog obeys and respect you, and you haven't resorted to physical punishment, you know why.

Anyway definately time for bed now!

again, ive owned stud dogs of a very large and dominant breed---one of which sired the breeds top brood bitch for a couple of years, also champions in the breed . trust me, he didnt get to go humping anything other than in season, ready to be mated bitches, and managed just fine thankyou, ----i suppose we should all send our sons out to experiment with their thrusting progress---[just incase when the real thing comes along they havent a clue!!]
no im sorry -YOU'RE WRONG, a stud dog should know his job, ---not from bonking males outside when out for a walk, but from being introduced to kind-in season bitches.
and as you appear to know all the answers anyhow im not sure why you felt the need to ever ask anyone!!!!!
or even how as you know so much that your male became such a nusciance in the first place !!!!!!

"...send our sons out to experiment with their thrusting progress" classic Dizzy!! roflol :D

Hi Henry,
A question for you ... Where did you first learn/hear this?:
Dogs play mount for many developmental reasons, for example to develop a pelvic thrust to mate.

In over 20 years of reading books/articles and consulting with various styles of trainers, I've never heard of such an interesting rationale before. I'm just really curious to discover where this originated....seriously.

I certainly hope your wife is not being subjected to this unusual theoretical development in the name of possible breeding opportunities.... ie: her leg or back has been humped by your dog. :rolleyes:

If what you are saying is true, then how do you explain when bitches also "hump" and "mount" another dog? And yes they will do it occasionally. :rolleyes:

Humping/mounting another dog is an aggressive/assertive sign of who is dominant. If you are allowing your dog to do it in the home, to visitors and other people, and to yourself, (not saying you are), you are telling him that it is ok for him to dominate the situation. You are placing yourself downwards on the totem pole... so to speak.

One of my bitches had this same "problem" when she hit her 'teen' years. Everytime she'd try it on our other bitches, she'd be told "no" firmly and sent away into exile. Cleared up in about a month. It was never tolerated or laughed at, so she stopped.

good luck with your newly found teenager :)
toodles

Sorry but this pelvic thrust business is the biggest load of tosh. Puppies mount to practice showing dominance - not learning how to mate!!!

It seems overnight your dog decided he was going to be king overall. My boys have never ever shown any inclination to mount anything they meet when out on a walk or a run. They love to play with other dogs they meet - but we always pull them in onto their leads first - especially if the other dog is on it's lead to see how they will get on. If all looks well and the other owner/s concur - then we wil let them play. It really annoys me when other people don't control their dogs. All dog's can catch you unawares with an unexpected turn of behaviour - but it should only ever happen that once. Your boy cannot now be trusted in the company of other dogs when he is off the lead and so should not be in that position.

Pam n the boys

michael. i worked with the dog-i did obedience-i did water work with gun dog dummys, -i could direct him left and right with hand signals!!!! i sat and passed a police dog test with him, i did well in obedience with him, the dog sat bolt upright, ears on top, -eyes on me when i called him, waiting to know what it was i wanted, i could drop him into a down with a hand signal, this was a happy ,outgoing and very well adjusted male STUD DOG!!!
-------I MAY OF HAD TO GRAB HIM AND SCRUFF HIM as he was growing up, but the bond we built on the way up was fabulous, ----he was a trained and responsive male, not one person in anytime i had that dog out ever had a problem with him, why???? because he knew i was in charge, -not because i lifted my hand and he was frightened, but because of the team work and trust that built up between us, and it showed in the dog, he was bombproof,
i dont see any similarity in the problems you're having with yours, ---again its a total lack of RESPECT!!! on the dogs behalf.
RESPECT IS EARNED ,NOT BEATEN INTO A DOG,!!!!!!!!!!!

Well Micheal. I did not give you any advice.
I only said if he did that to mine I would be very angry at you and the dog and no I would not stand by while it was happening .
Sorry but I love my dogs too and I do not like ill behaved dogs molesting them .
I would not like to see harm come to your one which is why I said be very careful .
I really do not know how my bullmastiff dog would take to being mounted and bitten .
I never saw any of my dogs fight thank god for that , but I would not like to bet on him accepting this type of thing.
I used very old fashioned ways of training mine and they are the best poor dogs in the world .
No they were not beaten but the odd whack on the bum for bad behavior such as biting and aggression to other dogs and humans did not go astray.
I also spend months training them for the showring and lead training ,cant see anyone finding use for a newspaper here.
If old methods are so dated then why have dog attacks escalated in the last few years .
I imagine it is because the owners have no control over their dogs [owners of vicious dogs]and do not know how to change it
By the way im 8 and half stone and would not be physically able to hurt my bullmastiffs but they learned at an early age to respect me.
giant breeds need to know their place and it is dangerous to allow them away with any type of aggression .
Dangerous to humans and dangerous to other dogs and very dangerous for the dog itself .
I keep saying this, with the dangerous dog act and the amount of hype at the moment it is up to us to protect them and some times that means protecting them from themselves.
I like the concept of behavioural training but it does not suit every situation.
It takes a lot of time to train a dog aggression has to be stopped immediately.
By the way I do not agree with castration or spaying if not for medical reasons .
But it is up to the person who owns the dog to make their own decision on what is best for them and the dog.
So you see your bits are safe where im concerned . I really do not know how safe they would be with Dizzy , she is sharp lol ;)

Hi Henry,

th way your post was headed, and worded it did look as if your dog was being a lout, and that as this was natural you expected other folk to accept it, and not get protective of their dogs.

This is the tone that some of the negative posts have been addressing!

some of the more recent ones have been more informative, but by now defensive.

I would be one of those to advise pinning him down if he behaves in a thugish manner, once you have him off the other dog, as this is exactly the thing he is doing to the dogs perceived as being lowere ranking!! It would establish that you are Alpha, so he would have no reason to dominate other canines, as there is already a more dominant male around, you!!!

I too have had a teenage bitch initiate a game, and be rebuffed, only to have her dancing in front of the other dog, noisily bowing trying to convince the other dog to play. It is highly embarrassing, and if it is not their usual behavbiour can take you by surprise. As of course the other owner is not best pleased, especially as many view barking as agression, whereas in my breed it is part of normal play behaviour, which I do my best to discourage!

HI Henry

First of all, may I say that it is a very good sign that you have asked about this behaviour and that you will sort it out :)

Henry, if as you say the behaviour did LITERALLY happen overnight, i would be off to the vet quick smartish as there is indeed a possibility he could be unwell. All sorts of behaviour problems stem from a dog being ill, so do please get it checked out, just to put your mind at rest :)

The first thing to ring warning bells is always a very sudden change of behaviour. We should all consider this before we say he- or any dog - is a "naughty" dog.

If indeed it does turn out to be purely adolescent behaviour, then you will need to decide how to cope and train :)

I am with you on the non-smacking, ( although I am one of the very few on the board i think! :( )

My personal belief is that we train, we learn about behavour, and for example we don't need to physically dominate to be a pack leader, if that is the route gone down, because real pack leaders very very rarely have to "spat". It is the middle ranking dogs who usually fight although these are often mistaken for leaders squabbling for top position. ( I accept there are exceptions to the rule).

If your Weim is behaving like this because of hormones you may well have to use your voice firmly, but with a command he knows, (not just yelling and telling him off) and just train him to be obedient and manageable. You may have to keep firm control but just with a headcolar or whatever.

The biggest tip I would give is to read your dog, assess other dogs and owners, acquire a talent for scanning the horizon, and of course you will have ot respect that some people may get upset if your dog has a go at theirs, so don't let it happen at all. Maintain control at all times.

If you would like help with finding a reputable behaviourist please click on my name and i will see if there is anyone i know in your area.

Good luck
LIndsay

Hi Lindsay
I enjoy reading your posts:) But (you knew that was coming didn't you:) ) I'm sorry I have to ask something about this bit
*The biggest tip I would give is to read your dog, assess other dogs and owners, acquire a talent for scanning the horizon, and of course you will have ot respect that some people may get upset if your dog has a go at theirs, so don't let it happen at all. Maintain control at all times.*

Now I may of taken this out of context or not the right way it's specifically the 'some people may get upset' bit - can you blame them? I can see several reasons why they may be upset - they don't know how far the dog is going to go - they have already seen that possibly the owner has (if only briefly) lost control. They could be about to see their dog severly injured they DON'T KNOW for sure. Also there is the possible psychological damage that this could do to their dog and then they are left with a problem to sort out.

I wish Henry luck in sorting the problem:)
Anita

Also there is the possible psychological damage that this could do to their dog and then they are left with a problem to sort out.

Too true, Anita, too true :( I'm still sorting out Chienne's "recent" tendency to try to shimmy up my leg and into my arms as soon she sees a large dog racing towards us--friendly or not :( After three unpleasant "incidents" she's absolutely has had enough. She has a very long memory. :rolleyes: If a dog is on leash or ambles up, she's fine. Loves to sniff noses, but that's about it. Pretty much no interest in another dog. :( She used to like to play with others. No more :( It's very sad. :(

Hi I have read this with interest (which was all I was intending to do) but I do agree with what Anita has just said (and with others too) but what Anita says is what would worry me if I were walking my dogs and Henry's dog (lovely dog that he is) came up to me when I was walking them. I am frightened of large strange dogs and I think I would be terrified for Barney, Molly and me if this large dog tried to mount one of my two and bite them, even playfully. How on earth would I know it was 'playfully'. It would definitely put me off walking mine and I would probably fright the life out of them. We all have to learn to control our dogs - if we do then we can all walk them quite happily. If they are not trained they can make other's lives a misery.

Barney has been too spoilt because of his two operations and we had a trainer in on Saturday and she has shown us so much. We can now walk him a lot as he is almost over his operations so we are training him to walk properly outside and also to leave poor old Molly alone when they are playing as he can get spiteful. Molly has to learn too of course :) So any set back by another dog at the moment would be awful.

Henry IMO a trainer would be a good thing - although you may have had one - I am finding my one very helpful and Barney is learning very quickly - just like your boy would.

Best wishes Gina

HI Anita :)

It's just the perils of email really, plus i spend far too long on the computer and sometimes find myself rushing a bit :D

(More haste less speed - as i usually have to go back and correct my typing mistakes!!!)

NO, i certainly don'tblame anyone for being upset if a Weim had a go at their dog in the way described - if it happened to my Banya i would probably have a great big protective instinct arising :).

People like Sara, ands others who have had serious problems with dogs attacking theirs have every right to be upset. And to be honest the possible psychological damage would worryme more than anything else.

I am very glad Henry has asked for help though. I feel it is very important to be encouraging /constructive as well as honest.

Lindsay

Indeed - the perils of email:D All clear now thanks:)
Anita

HI

Read through this post with interest I too have large dogs, but never let them off the lead when there are other dogs around. In the past one of my GSDs was attacked on the lead by a stray dog wandering about. I have trained the dogs to sit quietly by my side now when people and dogs are walking past, this seems to help with people who appear afraid of the dogs as i see them approaching and get the dogs to sit as they approach and until they go past. I have also found that with the dogs sitting, if a strange dog is approaching (happens at least once a week with careless owners and teenage puppies usually) I feel more in control and knowing that my dogs will sit allows me to focus more on the approaching dog and try to ward off any badness that might be coming my way.

Lindsay, enjoyed your post, my alpha girl rarely if ever gets into scraps but my GSD who is second to her occasionally scraps if he feels another dog is threatening him in our group

Theresa