or maybe a samoyed

or a larger german spitz

Oh if we are talking larger Spitz there are some nice young adult Elkhounds coming into rescue that need homes.

If any of the Briards that I have met are anything to go by I wouldn't recommend one for a novice owner. One of my Buhund friends had one which was very unpredictable to the point where it had bitten her and other doggie friends so was pts. I'm not saying they are all like that but the are a very large and strong minded breed.

A fellow dog walker had one who ended up with very bad hip problems; they also seem very "solid" dogs so I'd again be aware that they are physically large in that sense at least.

I heve a friend with 2 beardies. She use to do basic working trials training with them, now she has a young toddler and I will say, she has been dedicated in that the dogs get an hour's off lead run everyday. They are superb with her child and with other dogs - 2 drawbacks:

Barking - but they are quiet in the house, seeming to bark when out when they stand in water (streams etc ) and just - bark! LOL.

Grooming - on most walks they pick up all sorts which does get tangled in their coats - bracken, brambles, etc.

She can manage, so it is possible - but it would require some dedication to coat care. LIttle and often being best. Don't choose from a working strain.

If you do decide on a smaller dog - look out for the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, fab dogs with high or low activity levels depending on what you want to do wtih them!! :P Do choose a good breeder though as all breeds may have problems, the CKCS has heart problems within the breed.

Only just seen this, but has to add to it for anyone looking at this thread in the future.

We have a briard, are first time dog owners, have a young family and our dog is healthy, fantastic with children, and is all I could wish for in a dog.  FAR from high maintenance she is the perfect companion whatever we are doing. (I am at home most days, BUT she copes equally well when I am not).  True they are big dogs and so are big puppies, and are lively, so do need firm handling, but my dog sleeps far more than my friends westie or her wheaten ever did.  She is also dog friendly and LOVES everyone.

They are strong minded - and as I said stubborn, but this can be overcome (I had a few problems being a novice owner, but would now never want another breed).

I love my briard :)

Can't get back to first page, but who was the member on here who had to rehome a briard - I don't remember that?

Briard rehoming thread

Thanks for that Moonmaiden - my memory is not as good as it should be :)

Jennybasenji,

I would seriously doubt that you have met percentage wise, a lot of Briards:rolleyes:

The only point in your post that I would agree with is that they are certainly not a dog for the novice owner!

I appreciate that you are saying they are not all like that, but before casting aspersions, in your particular case, what do you really know about this wonderful French breed??

Yes, they are large and independently minded, yes their actions can be seen as aggressive, BUT, if the would be owner took the trouble to learn about the realdog before they acquired one, then they would be prepared for life with these wonderful dogs. And it is a life changing prospect.

They are only unpredictable if you are. They are only aggressive if you deliberately or inadvertently make them so.

Perhaps a little more research into my breed would be useful before anybody criticises or sings the praises of :rolleyes:

For the record, I know Julia, who unfortunately had to part with Barney (black male) who has the same sire as my juvenile . She could not cope with a big bouncy male, even though her parents have had them for many years. She recognised where she went wrong and now realises that having a Briard at this particular point in her life is inappropriate. A harsh lesson that she will never forget :(

Hairypooch,

I don't know anybody called Julia who had a briard by the way so get your facts right first. And yes I have met a fair few briards over the years and nothey are not all nasty but I am just going by the ones that I have met who are.

Hairypooch was referring to Julia who was on this board and had to have her briard rehomed.

I do think it is a bit unfair to judge a whole breed by the few 'nasty' ones you say you have met.  I have met many unfriendly, even nasty small dogs but would not assume that all small dogs are nasty. I have been to shows where there are large amounts of briards and there has been absolutely NO nastiness at all. All breeds need to be socialised correctly to bring out their best potential.

Was not very clear in the post about Julia! It made it sound like that was who I was talking about.
Don't think I said that they were all like that! I'm sure there is very nice briards around just not the ones that I have met myself.

OK - so this is the all-new shortlist.

Briard - I am still going to go ahead and meet the breeder and talk about the dogs.  I am confident and keen but inexperienced at dog training.  I think it could work, even with that, but I will talk to the breeder before making any decisions.  They're lovely dogs, they'd fit in with us and I could handle the grooming.  If training is all about consistency, patience and love, I totally believe I can do it.  If experience is a requirement, then maybe not.  I do believe that a dog like this would want to make its owners happy and as long as we could provide adequate boundaries that would be fine.  In any case, I haven't ruled it out yet.

TT - My major concern with the TT is leaving it alone.  I am only out of the house for a few hours a day, but things DO come up.  Recently my daughter was rushed to hospital, my husband was abroad at the time on business - I was gone for 6 hours.  I can't promise that will never happen again.  I like the TT, it's a good size and it fits in with what we're looking for, but I don't want to get a puppy if we can't commit to keeping it happy.

Labrador - Still looking like the easy, most promising option.  Not much to go wrong as long as we do our research and find a trustworthy breeder.  The only real problem with labs is that they are so popular, but to be honest that is something we would get over within months I'm sure.

So - I will talk to some breeders and do some more research.  Perhaps if we visit all three breeds it will all become clearer.

Thanks again, all of you, for all your help.  It really has been invaluable.

Alice

Yep I would visit more than 3 breeds, it will really help to see them in situ, especially in a similar family to your own.

With my first dog a Belgian Shephered, I was snet to a pet owner near where I lived to see if they woudl really suit me (I had a toddler at the time), and had one again and a 4 year old when I got the first Elkhound.

I just don't believe it.  I don't think we will ever find a dog at this rate.  I guess that means Briards are out then.

My husband doesn't like Spitz or Samoyeds, too fluffy.
I really don't want a terrier or spaniel.  I didn't want a small dog and I don't even like the look of them.  What is the point of having a dog you don't even want or like?!

I would (grudgingly) consider a Border Terrier.  But frankly I would rather just get a rescue dog and hope for the best.  Maybe we should forget about getting a puppy at all and just take a risk at the Blue Cross. 

I just feel that there aren't any dogs we can have.  Every single dog I like is "not suitable for a novice owner". 

personally i dont think you should consider a dog you dont like.

sure you dont want a BC

the only time my BCs have got out the backgarden,theyve come around the front & barked to get let back in!

you can get some fantastic colours & markings in BCs they neednt be B&W

>Every single dog I like is "not suitable for a novice owner". 

There is a dog to suit you, you just haven't found it yet.  You are doing your research independently and on here so you will eventually settle for something you like and want.

I thought you were going to visit a kennels with Briards.  That has to be the best way of shortening a short list.  Meeting the dogs and asking questions of a breeder who knows his/her dogs inside out will certainly give you the best idea of what is and isn't suitable.  As far as dogs like Briards are concerned you could even ask if they would mind giving a quick demo of the type of grooming involved.

Don't give up and don't think there is nothing for you.  There are many different breeds to research yet.

I know it's hard not to get downhearted when you can't find "your" breed, but don't give up just yet.
It took us around 2 years of almost constant research to decide on a breed (though we still haven't booked a puppy, and will continue to research all we can about the breed even after then).
We tried those online searches but found them disastrous - even "cheating" them I never came up with anything close to what we knew in our hearts was right for us - we kept getting the Bernese Mountain Dog or St Bernard, despite looking for something medium sized, and so many of them discount breeds that fit really well simply because you don't tick all the check boxes they use for that breed (so if you ticked that you wanted a medium size, spitz type breed that required a lot of grooming but didn't check that it had to be good with children, you wouldn't get the Keeshond as an option). I found it beter to make my own checklist.
I would suggest making a list of what you would and would not like from a dog.  Make a list of things you would prefer, and things that are total deal breakers (for me that was dogs that couldn't be let off lead, dogs with a very strong doggy smell and dogs with a reputation for aggression). But I am happy to live with less than border collie obedience, and with a dog that sheds heavily (my carpets are ugly anyway) so they went in the ok box. If there are particular things you like in a breeds appearance then note those down too. I would never suggest that you went with a breed that you only "grudgingly" liked, but I would say that although I always wanted a spitz as a child, when the choice was a breed that didn't shed or no dog (my brother was athsmatic as a child but grew out of it) I pretty quickly found a non-shedding breed that I loved.

For some reason CD won't let me go back to page one of this thread so this may have been covered or I may be missing some of your essential criteria, but have you considered a sighthound? Deerhounds and greyhounds are extremely child friendly and are 'easy' dogs to own. Ditto for whippets and Irish Wolfhounds although one may be too small and one too big for you. You need to be aware of the sighthound chase instinct, so you have to work hard at recall and stock safeness from the start. Also the sighthounds are not easy to train in the sense of competetive obedience because they despise repetition. They will catch on quite quickly, but the second time a command is given they will throw you a dirty look as if to say "I did it right the first time!", and will wander off to do their own thing. But they are extremeley easy to turn into civilised companions and aggression/nervousness is alsmost unknown. They love their exercise but are quiet and undemanding around the house. The novice owner needs to be aware of their independent turn of mind and to realise that you reach an accomodation with a sighthound rather than train it, but they are not difficulat dogs as long as allowance is made for their outlook on life.

Jas, if ever you are wanting to look at an earlier page and it won't let you, go to the top most post and click on the little white arrow top right which will take you to the post that generated it, voila!

Thanks Isabel. You are a mine of information about CD! :)

If you're thinking something along the labrador / retriever line would suit your lifestyle, but you don't want something as common as a lab, why not investigate the Curlycoated Retriever or the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever, or the Chesapeake Bay Retriever? There are bound to be others! Or a chocolate labrador - common breed, but less common colour?

>Or a chocolate labrador - common breed, but less common colour?

Less common colour? You jest, surely? Chocolate is very much the 'in' colour for labrador farmers to churn out, and a good one is hard to find. :(

Sorry JG, my info must be out of date!

Whilst not disagreeing about a good one being hard to fine, Chocolate is still only around 16% of the 3 colours registered at the KC. It was expected to rise to about 18% this last 12 months.... waiting for the figs...

You are right about around 12% of that 16% being puppy farm bred.... (very sad face).
Di

I don't think that tollers are for the inexperienced :)

Daisy

Sorry, but 2 people have been on here to say soft coated wheaten would NOT be suitable as it could escape from the garden with only a 1 metre fence

I would have to agree with a golden retriever but thats because i have a big softy of my own. My boy loves children big and small infact he loves all people, is great with other dogs doesn't mind being left alone but obviously prefers company and is fine of for some reason he doesn't get his normal quota of walks. He has never tried to escape and we have two fairly low fences on either side mind you if he did the neighbours would bring him back on either side. He hardly ever barks and is eager to learn so training is pretty easy. And he is so so loving a big hairy cuddley dog. Infact he is perfect :). Common dogs don't sound so bad infact whatever dog you do get will have it's own personality so it will never be common.

Any breed could get over a 1-metre fence if it wanted to and had been taught to jump. ;) The scale height jump in working trials for a dog not exceeding 10 inches at the shoulder is 3 feet! However dogs can be trained to respect that as a boundary - my dalmatians never jump (which can be a pain when we have to lift them over stiles on country walks!) and the one-metre fence at the end of our garden is sufficient to keep them in.

A low fence can always be increased in height without making a garden seem like a prison by the addition of a trellis. :)

I agree. My deerhound jump things that make me cover my eyes in fear when out, but at home some of our fences are just 3'6". In fact one side of the paddock fence was down this week while it was being replaced. Obviously we watched the dogs when they were there, but they made no attempt to stray out of their usual territory. They have been used to these boundaries since puppyhood and seem to have no inclination to try to escape them.

Tara has never escaped from the garden - but on the odd occasion, she will chase a cat/fox and jump the 3 foot fence into next door :) She seems oblivious to the fact that she could jump it at any other time :)

Daisy

To be hones almost any dog who had a mind to could escape over a one meter fence,other than the most sedate toy breed.

Oh no you missed out Austalian terriers......

Terriers are "off" apparently! ;)

Nobody has mentioned the Welsh Springer?  Medium sized, relatively rare (to please OH), not as 'mad' as the english springer... quite hard to find, but totally devoted and excellent with children.

Spaniels are out too.....

what about a schnautzer ooops sure I,ve spelt that wrong or maybe a bull mastiff we,re almost running out of breeds now Its so important to get what you,re happy with I,m only happy if I have German Shepherds around I know they will always be my breed and when I can,t manage a Shepherd then I,ll get a cat.

Standard Poodle: high energy, active, needs affectionate owner who enjoys energetic walks, grooming, training and playing.

Basset Griffon Grand:high exercise req- loves long walks, active easy-going owner who enjoys energetic walks, lack of exercise may lead to excessive digging, maybe difficult to control on walks.

Standard Schnauzers:medium exercise req. busy at home and outside, needs active, confident, affectionate owner- enjoys playing. training and grooming- daily brush.tends to bark excessively.

if i were you- i'd choose a poodle- which dont have to be fluffy girly dogs at all. or a basset grifffon.

decisions decisions- go and meet a standard poodle. goodluck!!! ;)

I have known several Welsh intimately, and agree they are much less manic than the English springer, and if I was to ever have a Spaniel (and they don't appeal as a type) then the Welsh would be it.

They will need training to be left, as some I have known have had Seperation Anxiety.  I actually fostered one with this problem for it's breeder as the owner was terminally ill, and even with canine company it removed chunks of plaster, but with steady training with getting the dog comfortable for short periods I had him rehomeable after about a month, and that was a 6 year old dog.  His breeder never had a problem with any of hers, but she had always taught them not to be too clingy.

I think you will have to face the fact that you will need to re-fence your garden no matter what breed you go for.  how about one of the setter breeds ? they are not as stupid as some people like to make out, I do obedience and agility with my Irish as well as showing, mine arent hyper in the house although they do like to hunt when they are out on their walks but they are happy enough to go for a lead walk and as long as they have had a walk they are happy to settle and wait for me to come home from work.  They are really happy dogs with a zest for life and are such fun and loving dogs - I wouldnt be without a setter now :)

And im just going to put my tin hat on now and say that I agree with your husband about common dogs, I didnt want a popular dog such as a lab, they just didnt do it for me, I know Irish Setters arent exactly rare but they are different and very striking,  you dont see that many about (although you meet loads of people who used to have one, knows someone who used to have one...... )

just realised your daughter is only young, you will have to remember with any larger dog when they are young they are going to bound about and may possibly knock her over, you would have to be vigilant.

English setters are a bit steadier than the Irish ans also not a very common sight, I know some of these and they seem rather nice.

So reallymthere are so many breeds to choose from, actually around 200.

I have an english setter and she's wonderful with the children. I honestly can't fault her temperament. She can be stubborn, and be quite needy of attention, but as far as the children are concerned, I can't ask more from her. That was the most important thing for me when deciding on a breed.

We had Greyhounds and a Salukixgreyhound lurcher who was fun and also good to look at. He became an avid but trustworthy protector of myself and the children, when the OH was working late and the children adored him. My son a toddler then and a lot shorter than the champaine brindled Digger, would crawl into his basket in the kitchen next to the Aga and then they, my sons little head on Diggers vast chest, would sleep soundly together for the afternoon nap!

My son is at Uni now and it's many years since Diggers passing, but he still keeps with him the ragged and worn photos that he stole from the album without asking. And the wonderful gift given to him from Digger, is that he has left my son to this day with a magical affinity for all dogs and animals.
So don't give up and don't pass over.

My OH and i will never forget how Digger had charged into our lives, all covered in mange and fleas and seemigly grinning from ear to ear because he'd found us. To all intents and purposes, he was unanounced, unasked for and quite unwanted. But little did we know then, that this was to be a dog who very quickly became quite amazing too

Wouldnt a small yard and house require a small breed? :) I cant imagine a large robust dog zooming around a small house and not knocking stuff over or getting in the way etc etc.. Would it be fair to keep a large dog in a small yard and house? What happens if something comes up and you cant walk the dog for a day or two or more,a large dog would more likely go stir crazy than a smaller one,although ALL dogs need daily walks,some can be more forgiving than others.
I dont mean to be pesimistic,but my first thought when i read small house,yard was one of the smaller spaniel type breeds, a cavalier king charles spaniel was the first dog i thought of for you. :)

Just my two pence worth :o

Good luck and i look forward to hearing what breed you eventually choose :)

Alice

Still not sure where you are but the offer still stands.  If you want to see either Tibetan Terriers or Beardies in their home environment I am happy to show them to you. 

I dont avoid the bad points though and the OH is very keen on showing how to groom correctly.  The boy Beardie loves visitors and will run around like a loon and does jump - that is why they are called bouncing Beardies. 

Other than that I would visit discover dogs and get your hands on a few breeds asking as many questions as you can of the owners.

It is very commendable to take on a rescue but you also take on the breed or breeds contained in the rescue.  If a youngster (child) is involved I would want to have an idea of what sort of temperament and behaviour I could expect (you do have some idea with a breed).

Good luck with your search.  There is one out there for you.

Hiya Echo,

Thanks for the offer, it's very kind of you.  However, we've decided against a TT because they cannot be left for more than a few hours.  Although I only work 3.5 hours a day, things can come up when you have a young child (I'm thinking of a recent incident when I had to rush my daughter to hospital and was gone for 6 hours).  I don't want to get a dog that we can't adequately provide for.

I've done lots of reading about TTs and the separation anxiety issue has come up again and again.  Also, because they are a long-lived breed, it is hard to know what our circumstances will be in 16-odd years time - it's highly likely I will go back to work full time at some point.  Overall, it seems like they aren't the perfect breed for us. 

I love the look of the Beardies but several people have said here that they're not ideal for novices.

At the current time I am reconsidering the Estrela Mountain Dog - they can be left, they are not particularly dominant, they love children, etc.  The only real issue is their size, but I think that can be overcome.  We will definitely have to buy a new car and are planning to move house next year anyway.

Thanks again for the kind offer!

Alice