i don't know if it's just us but we don't sell pups to full time workers [saying that nor do my friends] so imagine my surprise when we had a call from a woman who when asked if she worked full time replied "yes but it's ok i'm a teacher" & went out at 8:30 till 4:30 but she was a teacher so it would be ok & also she'd never been asked that queston before when phoning up for a pup [how many dogs had she had!]. i would of thought that of all the profesions thay this would be one where they would know better. mindyou my friend had one chap phone asking if she had any sticker... pups that won't sell & he'd take them off her hands... nice of him:rolleyes:

Although I don't generally agree with full time workers with no provision having young pups.  I do hope you don't tar all with the same brush.
I have friends who work full time.  6 months ago they got a new pup (lab to work) They had planned the pup well and saved up all thier holiday so wife took her 4 weeks off first and hubby followed on when she went back to work with his holiday.  They then employ a dog walker to come in daily (morn and afternoon to feed, walk and spend time with the dogs.
Thier dogs and the pup are happy well adjusted dogs who are very much loved and well cared for.  Do you go on to ask what provision has been made if they work full time or do you just say no as soon as they say they work FT.
Some dogs could be missing out on good homes with FT workers.
I know families where neither hubby or wife work and they are both at home all day, some have dogs which lead an awful life and who are not treated well or bothered with at all.
The good homes are not necassarily with those at home.

bev

wow!
i would say that if anything your home sounds more ideal than most homes i know where the people dont work!

I also do not generally home pups with full time owners, (children under 5 years old, people living in flats etc) but I have broken my own rules when the person has said at the outset, "I know that I may not appear to have an ideal set up for a puppy, but I have thought it through, am prepared to do .... and have made arrangements for......".  When people are aware, then it can work well. ;)

If people are prepared to put the extra effort in i believe it can work out as well.

At one point i worked full time and had 2 children under 5 - we had 3 dogs at the time who were happy, healthy and well adjusted. I however was knackered and said never again!! ;)

I agree that by dismissing full-time workers you may be missing out on some wonderful owners, as has been said, some dogs owned by those who don't work, are not as well looked after, as an organised responsible full time worker :)

There are also the fulltime workers who either work from home or can take their dogs to work with them. :)

Quite a few of mine have gone to full time working homes and don't forget my breed is a full on working breed.  but their owners put the rest of their living hours into their dogs and do everything with them, including taking them to their wedding, their honeymoon, which was set around the dog and not themselves etc.  It can work beautifully but they have to be the right people.

Perhaps she meant that being a teacher means she has a lot of holiday time so would be around a lot more than someone working in a different job.

And teachers do get tonnes and tonnes of holidays to spend with their dog, six weeks at home in summer to settle in a new puppy sounds ideal to me.

Just on the subject, what are peoples thoughts on a retired greyhound or lurcher rescue going to a home where someone works full time but would employ a dog walker during the day?

I think its important to find out if all members of the family are full time workers.  Lots of full time workers work shifts where someone may be around each end of the day.  Also with grown up children around, they will be in and out of the house at different times.  There are four adults in my household and we all work varying times so there is almost always one of us at home.

...To me, emplyinga dog walker takes away much of the 'full time' stigma. However there are dog walkers and 'dog walkers', so yes, to me, personally only, a FT worker with a dog walker, to the dog, is no longer a 'full time worker'. They don't care who lets them out when bursting for a wee or if they upset their water bowl at ten past 9am... just as long as SOMEONE does at some point in the day ;-)

Di

With all the pups on offer every day, it would be totally impossible to find PT working homes for every one of them. Also are you talking about the lifetime of the grown dog, or just the puppy months. Better to go to a home where although the situation changes as a family grows and a mother goes out to work but keeps the dog in a stable and happy home, than 2 or 3 years in a PT working home, who then gets rid when things change for them, don't you think??

Blimey, there can't be many breeders out there that will not allow pups to go to F/T working homes - if there were then pups wouldn't get sold.
Unfortunately in this day and age it is only the very fortunate who do not have to work, be it full or part time.

I agree that there are certain situations where I would question the suitability of a pup, but so long as I felt the committment was there to train the pup and offer it a safe loving home I would not say never just because they worked, lived in a flat, had children etc..

I live in a flat myself and work full time - on first impressions that sounds totally inappropriate for a 9 mth old springer puppy - on closer inspection, I am committed to taking my dog out whenever she needs to, plus she gets 2-3 walks a day depending on where we go walkies. I live in as part of my job so she is never left for more than an 2 hours and if I am working away from home for the day (ie: training etc..) I am very fortunate to have a very nbice mother who happily takes care of her for me.

I think all situations should be looked at and consideration given to the level of committment.

My brother-in-law has two dogs in a house, sounds great doesn't it.........his house is 1 bedroomed and half the size of my flat, he has no garden, I have a large garden (communal mind you but my dog can and does use it) the most important factor is that both my brother in law and myself are dedicated to our dogs and offer the same lifestyle that joe bloggs up the road in their 5 bedroom detached house can offer theirs.

If i were a breeder i dont think i would sell my pups to a home where he would be alone for 8 or more hours per day everyday :( Even if someone did pop in once a day to tend to the pup,dont pups need let out to pee and stretch their their legs more than once in an 8-9 hour period? Not to mention the company and socialisation and i just couldnt imagine how someone would go about housetraining a pup when they are out of the house for half the day???

Its such a hard call,there are full time workers who work from home,some are able to take their dogs to work,or there are other members of the family who are home for part of the day.Before completely writing off FT workers and cutting them off at that point,i would ask what provisions they are going to make for pup,if they say none and the pup will be unattended for the whole day then i wouldnt blame you for not wanting to sell to them....

.... I think what we need also to consider is the reality for most breeders if they *say* they don't allow FT worker homes. *Most* people breed, what? Once a year, less? Maybe twice occasionally....your average small competition kennel might only be once every couple of years... maybe once in five! So in all reality you are only looking at finding one litters worth, once a year (or whatever) of families or couples or individuals who do not both work full time. I have never found this difficult.... 4 - 10 homes once a year, sometimes less?

I take each case on its merits andhave n hard and fast rules myself although i prefer they don't work FT to be honest. BUT it wouldn't be hard when one breeds like the majority on here do volume wise, to find non FT's. Now if one was churning out 5 or 6 litters a year one has to be less picky, but thats not a great deal of breeders when one looks at the Breed Record Supplement...

Di

I wouldn't allow me to have a puppy if we both worked full time and it was going to be left alone 9-5!

There have been lots of threads on this subject over the last months/year.  You might be interested in reviewng some of them where lots more opinions are offered.  Use the search facility and put in full time work. :)

Full time doesnt always mean the pups will be alone for 8 hours of the day.

My fiancee and I both work full time, but shift work. So our dog is never alone for more than 4 hours due to our shift overlap. And even then Im in to check on him after Ive been at work for 2 hours as I work across the road from home.

:)

Ah well that's me out then ! - I'm a teacher - I also have 7 dogs of a high energy breed - I show and judge - I work my dogs in agility- do PAT dog work and have bred the occassional litter !

Commitment and being slightly mad does help  LOL :D

Yvonne

I am a teacher and have just taken on a labrador puppy - she's now four months.  I wake at 6am to let Poj out for a wee, give her her breakfast and then get myself ready.  At 7 we have another walk together and play with her while we're all getting breakfast.  Mid-day my neighbour comes round to walk her, feed her and play with her for about an hour or so.  Then I'm home at 4.30 for an evening with her.  Teachers get long holidays and I only work four days a week so I have the fifth day just with me and Poj.  I do training with her every night for five minutes here and there and take her to training classes once a week.  I also walk her with a friend who has dogs so she has running around with other dogs time.  Please don't write off people who work. 

Poj is a very happy dog, she never whimpers or makes any fuss when she's left and when my neighbour comes round she's generally sleeping and in no mad rush to get out.

It was one of my most important lifetime ambitions to have a dog and I spent, literally, several years making sure I chose the right breed and organising my time so that she would get the best of it.  It's probably just important that the breeders ask lots of questions about how provision will be made to look after the dog during the day.

How cool you do agility. I'm struggling to find a class near me. Although have started pet obedience with the little one. What dogs do you have and what do you teach?  (I', a physics geek I'm afraid!!!)

I have Belgian Shepherd Dogs ( Groenendaels and Tervuerens) and I teach children with severe and profound learning disorders - at the moment I have a class of 19 students aged 12-16 many with severe Autism and related behavioural problems - I find that the dog side of my life kind of balances out the work side - both are all consuming but in different ways. I also breed rare breed poultry and have just started learning to ride as a 50th birthdya pressie to myself !.

Yvonne

i take my hat off to you that must be extremely rewarding. I just manage to fit in my kickboxing around OH, dogs and endless a level marking so maybe my time management needs some work:). I took up kickboxing for my 30th and have just got my first belt. I'm definatley going to do agility though.
I love BSD I have 2 little cavs one of which thinks shes a rocki. :) My mum in law has exotic chickens although a few had an incident with a cat recently and she can't bring herself to replace them yet. :rolleyes:

I have just read a post on an american breed site that I'm a member of and it was all about settling in their newest dog that they got from breed rescue.  I read it yesterday and STILL can't quite believe what it said! 

Today was the big test. We had to go to work. We left *** (the rescue) home with *** our 10 year old ****** and ****** a 13 year old *****. They all had run of the house and the back yard. We were gone 11 hours and NO damage to anything or anybody.

11 hours.... 11 HOURS!!

The replies they got were all congratulating them on what a splendid job they'd done with the rescued dog!!! (apart from the reply from me of course ;) )

Now - here's the point -
If you work F/T (I mean F/T involving dogs being left all day on it's own) and have someone come in to let the dog out 2 or 3 times during that period (let out for a wee - not staying for a couple of hours at a time) how is that different from those people mentioned above who left theirs for 11 hours?  After all - if all the dog needs is to be let out for a wee then leaving them for 11 hours with the run of the yard is no different is it?

Homing a puppy to people who leave the house unattended all day (even WITH someone who just lets them out for a wee) is not for me I'm afraid.  (Dog walkers who'd have them out for a couple of hours decent walk MIGHT be different I guess) I like my pups to be able to have a person to socialise with. 

Think about it - in the winter, if someone comes in and lets them out at lunchtime, the dogs might only see 15 minutes of daylight a day!!

JMO

Debs

Debs makes, in my mind, some very valid points. I think, and i'm sure this has been done to death before, what worries breeders who won't sell to FT workers of varying sorts is more the 'ifs and buts' of the situation. I always quote for rescue (who have a blanket policy for 9-5'ers in my breed) if I homecheck (or look at an offer to have one of my own pups) basically that its not just those 9 hours. It means that if the car breaks down on the way home, or its a workers birthday and 'everyone is asked by the boss to go for a quick drink' or if the couple or person actually, rightfully wishes for the occasional bit of social life, it means the dog is alone, they come in, play for a quick bit, feed the dog and push off out again. They then come in, play a bit then go to bed for 8 hours! Then its left again the next day.... it starts to push any boundary. It might only BE now and then but its these sort of things that do influence some to have a blanket policy.

Dog walkers are a boon, but if someone is out all day then they cannot either housetrain effectively nor use a cage... both of which personally I like my puppies to go through throroughly.... its very tricky but NOT if good provision or split hours of home work can be achieved of COURSE!
D

I'd tell my boss to stick it personally and I don't stay at work longer than I have too. Its just a shame I have to go there at all really. :) My OH's cousin is a dog walker but yet she negletes her 2 age Cavs and st bernard and only walks her new cav. The 3 that are left out are, in my eyes, not totally cared for and it breaks my heart especially when there is talk of a female to breed from. She doesn't work yet her dogs aren't looked after. So sad

She doesn't work yet her dogs aren't looked after.

I have to make one point... when talking about homes and dogs being left I am, of course, referring to people who DO want to look after their dogs properly.  ANY home can be a bad home but for the purpose of this discussion I refer to 'homes' as those I would sell a puppy to - not just any old home ;) 

Debs

I just find it so sad. These 2 aging cavs used to live in the house but since the they got the new one the 2 old ones have been spent to the shed to live with the st bernard. We just think its sad that she doesn't really bother with them. Iwasn't making a point just telling a sad story in relation to the thread. Her new cav is looked after. I just find it sad that she has the time but choses not to do it. I suspose i could offer to have them :)

I am on a breed email list that consists of mainly rescue and pet owners and some show people, and I am amazed at the attitude to leaving dogs for long periods, and even worse crated for long periods too. 

Seems totally common place to crate a dog throughout a working day or any owner absense, sometimes all their lives, but certainly throughout puppyhood and early adulthood. 

The amount of owners who don't have fenced gardens/yeards amazes me too, as how can you ahve a dog and not ahve a secure garden, amnay just expect that theri dog will stay around the property, very unrealistic with my breed at least.

Hi Maverick
Its a personal thing I know but I too am a teacher and this meant that when we got our first pup it was the second week of the long summer holiday so I had a whole 5 weeks to help her adjust. When I returned to school my mum in law came round and let her out. We did the same with the other one. We do have lots of holidays which is great and sometimes the hours at less than normal office hours (We'll ignore the weekend and evenings spent in our studies working though) but that doesn't make us any more or less suited. I lovemy dogs and they are a huge part of my life. I now have a job closer to home (10 mins away) for spetember and plan to come home to let the girls out at lunch. We are also hoping to get another dog this summer and I really hope that because I'm FT i don't get disregarded just because of this.
The girls also get nto a rountine. They seem to knwo when the hols are coming and when I go back to work. My friends dog sulks when term starts. My 2 just look sad when i leave and then happy we i get back.
Can I also add that I'm on Holidays now and planning to take dogs out on trip on my own as OH is working.

Maybe this person has been knocked back in the past and I actually think that I told the breeder of our first dog that I was a teacher as I felt I had to justify being a dog owner.

I do think its probably important to say, that, many of those you will have heard of who (and I quote) "Don't sell to Full Time Workers" are not thinking of some of the examples above of cross over work times by partners....children coming in from school when mum has only left for work at midday, workers who can work from home or split shifts and so on. The confusion and outrage from FT workers who plan carefully for their dog comes because breeders who won't sell are NOt thinking of them, they are thinking of the FT workers who leave for the office (or whatever) at 8.30am, not returning till after work ends at 5.30pm plus...

When the vast majority of folks think of FT workers they think gone 'nine to five' or similar length of time with no other provision, so we are talking at cross purposes I believe in many above posts when others work FT hours but their dog is rarely alone by the sounds of it! Only a fool would refuse them if they have asked about the arrangements.

Di

Exactly Di.

My hubby works days (40 hours a week) and I work nights (36 hours a week - though only 3 nights as they're 12 hours shifts) purely so the dogs aren't left on their own.  Of course they're left when I go shopping, etc, but never for more than 2 or 3 hours at a time.

Debs

I work nights 3 times a week,my small dog gets dropped off at my mum's on the way to work and picked up on the way back.I had 3 weeks holiday when I got him,he has never been left alone,he goes shopping with me and stays in the car except when he comes into the pet store with me.When he was young enough to require 3 meals a day,my mum came and picked him up out of my bed and took him home with her and kept him for the rest of the day,she has the same breed.
This is a routine that he has got used to and is out of sorts when it changes when I am either sick or on holiday.
I had another slightly bigger breed before him and he also was happy with our home routine and lived till a week short of 161/2 yrs and then died suddenly when I was present.
I think you need to know all the facts before dismissing a household as not suitable.

Haha i used to live next door to a "full time" teacher....... i think her definition of full time was very different to mine.......... was always home; in between lessons, finished early, sports afternoon, teacher training day (how did she do training at home??), doing marking at home. in fact i can see the attraction of being a teacher hahah

Please don't let this degenerate into a *let's slate Teachers* thread. I am married to a teacher and I work at a school and I KNOW how hard Teachers work. Until you have done the job yourself you cannot possibly know and appearances can be very decepetive

I rather thought, myself, with teacher friends, that infact its a total falsehood that they get *weeks of holidays*. The KIDS do, but in that time the teachers are not laying around sunning themselves but are researching, getting coursework sorted, attending preterm meetings and so on. Yes more time off than joe public probably but not the weeks of lazy days some seem to think! I have teacher pals who don't leave school from 7.30am till 5pm odd, and then come home to mark piles of books. So I don't see, myself teachers as havingntons of more time to raise a dog or do ANYTHING more than your average office worker really... they are pretty much 9-5'ers at most levels of teaching with a few exceptions.... IMHO.

Di

Like most jobs, there are good and bad :) Some are very hardworking, some aren't :) We have friends who manage to spend most of the holidays away - I'm sure that they don't take their work with them :) Others we know leave quite early in the morning and get home fairly late and then work, at home, in the evenings/weekends. But then, there are many, many people who would love to spend a good deal of their 'work' time at home (even if working) without the distractions of the phone/customers/bosses etc etc All in all, I don't think that teachers have too much to complain about tho' - after all they did choose the job :)

Daisy (OH used to be a teacher in an inner-city school :) )

Shouldn't the breed and personality of the dog also be considered?  For example, my dog (as of 10:00 AM this morning), still has not been fed nor gone for a wee.  That's because, he's been sleeping since 21:00 last night.  You literally have to step over him in the morning to make tea, and although i've opened the door for him to go out, he just looks at it sheepishly.  I am home with him throughout the day, but as he is not the type of dog that takes a lot of attention, i sometimes wonder if I wasn't here, would things be any different.  For example.  I know i will walk him in an hour.  Then feed his first meal one hour later (to prevent bloat).  And you know what happens next?  He goes back to lie on his mat for more sleep.  He'll get walked and fed again around 18:00 and stays up till 21:00.  Now... I like to think that I had something to do with this.  And I hope this makes sense to some.

I have a 5 month old boy, and although some may disagree with sleeping methods and children, I was able to create a schedule around his sleeping habits that suited me.  I say this, to say that the dog fits well around my schedule as well, but that could be that from day 1, i never got up at 7:00 am for morning feed and wee (Having just fed my son at 6:00 am, one tends to be a bit knackered).  Keeping the dog in the room with me helped me monitor his bathroom behaviour.

What i mean to say, perhaps there are some breeds that are not so attention needy.  I am completely positive that if I was to leave the house for 8 hours (heaven forbid) that my dog will be within 2 meters of where I left him.. and i've never crate trained.

We both work full time, but only in the same town as we live. I leave for work at 8.55 and come home for lunch to spend time with them, then arrive home after work at 5.05. On Wednesdays I now do a grooming course, so my OH comes home to sort them out. They also have a dog door so they aren't crossing their legs in between times! :-)

I'm not a breeder so don't have the dilemma to deal with but I do know that my breeder would prefer her pups to go to rural homes (ideally lived in by people she knows) where the daily comings and goings provide a happy medium between home alone and never left at all. Being a breed that flourish with plenty of wide open space to run off their almost unlimited energy, they aren't best suited to being left cooped up in a house for 8 hours at a stretch 5 days a week. Not that I think this is a regime that suits any dog to be honest. However, there's a marked difference between people who work full time and accept that bringing a dog into their household means that priorities are going to have to shift dogwards and people who don't understand why the dog can't be treated like some sort of household appliance you can switch on and off when you want to use it!

For sure, a blanket "no full time workers" policy almost certainly rules out some wonderful potential homes but what is a breeder to do? Because if they have more potential homes than they have pups - which is the norm with a reputable breeder - and all other factors are equal, I  don't think you can castigate anyone for choosing people who aren't working full time.

If a dog can live to 15 or more, how do you choose an owner whose life and lifestyle won't change?

Very good point ! - many circumstances change over that length of time. Plenty of dogs end up being rehomed because they are allowed to become over reliant on their owners presence all the time - when this is no longer possible separation anxiety sets in the poor dog gets passed on. How many times do you see dogs in rescue with the words " cannot be left" ?

My own dogs are left whilst we both work 3 days a week ( rest of the week Trevor works from home ) - they have access to a large secure dog yard and heated dog room plus kennels - they have a walk every evening and if it's light enough they get walked befor I leave in the mornings as well - we are lucky that we live in the countryside with a couple of acres to run the dogs in and miles of riverbanks to walk them along - At the moment I am on my 2 week Easter break - they still stick to their routine and are fed /walked in the morning - sleep all day then are fed/walked in the evening - the youngster will have a mad dashing about period with his mum at around 3 pm but otherwise they just flop about. I would however never keep a single dog on it's own for any length of time - they do need  the interaction of the pack.

Yvonne

When I brought my first puppy home, I was married and my husband and I worked FT but opposite shifts, the puppy was home, at most, for an hour alone.  When I brought home my second dog, I was still married with the same working schedule.  I then got divorced and my dogs had to get used to staying alone.  I now run a rescue, work FT and spend every other moment with my dogs.  I do not go out to parties, family gatherings, etc. because I feel that my dogs are alone enough, without me spending extra time away from home.  I have 7 dogs currently...all are well-adjusted, socialised and trained.  Every waking moment is spent with my dogs, whether it's walking, training, socialising, etc.  I consider them my PT job of sorts.  I took on the responsibility of having these dogs (and rescuing dogs) so what would I be like to ignore them and their needs?  My point is that situations do change.  For many UK breeders, my situation would have been ideal whilst I was married...now that I'm single it would be less so.  Why?  I am the same person with the same commitment to my dogs.  My sense of responsibility hasn't changed.  Would those breeders have had me place my dogs in rescue because my living situation became less than ideal?  Would you have me turn my back on rescue because I work FT?  Curious.

yes

This is one of those 'shades of grey' to my mind, situations rather than maybe the black and white answer given above ;-)

Who can judge someone else? Under these circumstances? There is too much judgemental stuff thrown about in life these days. Concern for someone is one thing but a blanket judgement is crazy. For me, my previous marriage fell apart and yes, I did rehome 5 of my youngsters because I was working FT and my exhusband was happy to keep a couple of oldies but not youngsters even though it was amicable. (I had to move to a 1 bedroom flat with no garden so that was an impossibility with any dog). It was part of the decision to leave him, knowing that i would be losing some of my dogs...but can one stay in a miserable marriage for the sake of the dogs? people shout if you say you stay for the 'sake of the KIDS' these days, let alone the dogs!

However, time went in, and my personal circumstances changed again and now and for the last 5 years or so, working PT myself and with a husband at home most of the time the kennel is rebuilding very slowly when something is good enough to keep.

But I think one thing in your post that would turn my alert system on is the part when you say you have no social life at all and do not go to family parties and so on. I'm no shrink don't worry and god knows theres a few functions I'd rather miss in my brood with a half decent excuse, but its not overly healthy to pour everything into these furry creatures to my mind and leave nothing left for yourself as a human being interacting with human beings and family (two different things usually of course! Grin...)

But of course, utterly, utterly your choice and shades of grey. Just your dismissal that this could be harming YOU as a person by your utter dedication to your dogs because of working FT and feeling guilty about it (presumably to dismiss anything else to make up for it) would be a worry if I was your sister or best pal!

But really good luck, I know how hard a marriage break up can be and how it can throw your entire life upside down.
Di

Then, Maverick, that is your personal choice.  You don't know me, nor do you know my situation.  Who you want to place your dogs with is compeltely  up to you, however, you have no clue what I, or other FT workers, are like as pet owners.  Putting a dog in a home where people don't work FT is not a guarantee of a good life, nothing is.

To say that I should have given my dogs to a rescue, turned their lives upside-down, because my living situation changed is ridiculous.  Dogs adapt.  That's one of the great things about them.  Concessions can be made for them, that's the great thing about having friends and family that are willing to help out.

Wy...

My divorce was 5 years ago.  :)  Part of our divorce discussions were "I'm keeping the house and the dogs".  ;)  My ex-husband had to move to an apt. and here in the states it is extremely hard to find a decent place to live that will except ONE dog, let alone two.  Apt's here are very cat friendly...not so much dog friendly.  Go figure. 

By no social life at all I mean that I'm not bar hopping...a personal choice along with a 'doggie' choice...in part due to the type of work I do.  By not going to family functions, I mean I don't go sit at family reunions for half the day...I don't mind going to dinner or for a visit, etc...but to spend hours away from home, just won't do it.  Close friends know how I feel about my brood so they're more than happy to come picnic here rather than picnic 'there'.  ;) 

I don't mean to give the impression that I feel guilty that I work FT.  I absolutely do not.  There is a different attitude here in the States re pet owners working FT.  In my social group...family, friends, co-workers, it is a rarity for someone to only work PT or to not work at all.  Most that don't work are only not because they are in between jobs and having a difficult time (thanks to George and our economy).  If I didn't work, I wouldn't live, very simply. 

What I am trying to say...not very well...is that I made the choice to have these dogs.  I've made the choice to run a rescue.  Therefore, my free time will be spent with my dogs and my fosters (getting them ready for new homes).  Dogs, and animals, are my passion.  If I didn't have them...THEN I'd be worried about my mental health.  ;)  My best pal is on this board and perhaps she'll jump in on this eventually and explain me better than I can. :)

What Gibson failed to mention is that she works nights,the dogs are only left alone between 10pm and 6 in the morning  5 nights a week and she also doesn't sleep very much  during the day:rolleyes:I have spent time at her house with the dogs and better cared for or loved dogs you couldn't find.Her social life does revolve around the dogs and other people with dogs is what she meant and she does leave the house sometimes,she's even flying here in a few weeks

You make your points very lucidly and please don't think I meant you SHOULD be bar hopping (I love that phrase!). I just felt concerned that you could miss out on a social life if you discounted everything other than your dogs - but I imagine you have things just as you and your dogs are happy, and thats what counts!
Di