As I have seen suggested here breed clubs are always a good place to start. You can always get their number from the kennel Club. The advice on here is generally excellent and varied, but definitive breed specific advice should be sought from a breed club if its a breed matter.

Super boards these but if you do feel you need specific advice a breed club would be a good place to start.

Di

Masey - salador
Poppy - peakdowns

Indicates that these bitches are not litter sisters as they are the affixes of two different breeders

Anyone who owns an experienced stud dog should be aware that the dog will not be bothered with the bitch until he senses she is ready, I've had three stud dogs & all three wouldn't show any interest in a bitch unless she was ready & none ever missed

I've also used other people's dogs & never had a miss using the stud dog's "better" knowledge of the readiness of the bitch. It was useful having a stud dog around as they always "told"me when a bitch was ready & the "virgin"dogs always "warned"me when a bitch was coming into season.

It is a sad fact the some of the GP's "stud dogs"are never handled correctly & simply left to get on with it hence "stud dogs"that try mating out of season & spayed bitches as well as wanting to "bonk"everything that moves

Cavaliers do require a lot of guidance & research before embarking on breeding, they are a lovely breed that is slowly being ruined by people breeding with little or no knowledge of what is behind their dogs

Cast your eyes over some of the cavalier websites few mention SHM because the breeders have their heads firmly embedded in the sand ignoring a terrible disease that is on the increase at a rate of knots

Are you aware that Labradors & King Charles have SHM problems too ?

Moon maiden,

What is SHM? I hesitate to ask of course ;-) Cannot sitting here think of a single thing in our breed (Labradors) 0it could be, as as someone who reads all the Breed Council minutes and reports on a frequent basis through our breed club, not seen it mentioned unless its called something else we aren't aware of?

Di

SHM - Syringohydromyelia :)

Searching on this and Labradors or Labrador Retrievers on Google draws no useful results at all....

Di

Syringohydromyelia also called Syringomyelia

This is not something we have looked into for Labrador Retrievers.... obviously I can trawl the net but can you put it in a nutshell to me what it affects and how it is inherited?

This is not currently a recognised problem in our breed.... or even one whispered about, muttered about behind hands or talked about.....

Di

What is Syringomyelia?
Syringomyelia is a condition whereby fluid filled cavities develop within the spinal cord. Some refer to SM as "neck scratcher's disease" because scratching in the air near the neck is a common sign.

What causes it?
Syringomyelia is a consequence of an obstruction to cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) flow. In the normal mammal, the CSF around the brain shunts back and forth with the arterial pulse. If this rapid efflux and influx is obstructed then the pressure wave is transmitted down the spinal cord distending it below the blockage. This results in the formation of a cavity or syrinx. Syringomyelia can occur from any blockage in the subarachnoid space (space containing CSF around the brain and spinal cord). However, the most common cause is the cerebellum within the foramen magnum (i.e. the back of the brain poking though the hole at the back of the skull). The cerebellum is pushed (herniated) out the skull because there is not enough space since the volume of the back of the skull (occipital bone) is too small. This condition occurs in many small breeds but is common in the cavalier King Charles spaniel (CKCS) (conservative estimates at least 50% of the breed although only a proportion are severe enough to have clinical signs). It is similar to the human condition Chiari malformation (some vets refer to it as Arnold Chiari syndrome which can be confusing as the original description by Arnold was of syringomyelia associated with spina bifida and this is not the case in the CKCS).

What are the clinical signs of syringomyelia?
By far the most important sign of syringomyelia is pain. This is most commonly localised to the neck region but may be difficult to define or intermittent. Owners often report that their dog is worse at night; when first getting up; during hot or cold temperature extremes; when excited; or related to posture e.g. preferring to sleep with their head elevated. They may seem to be overly sensitive to touch on one side of the neck / ear / shoulder / sternum. In addition some affected dogs scratch at one area of the shoulder, ear, neck or sternum. This is typically one side only, while the dog is moving and sometimes without making skin contact Some dogs, more commonly younger patients, develop a scoliosis (twisted spine). Some severe cases may have other neurological deficits such as fore and hindlimb limb weakness and ataxia (wobbliness). Facial nerve paralysis, deafness and seizures have also been associated with the condition but a link has yet to be proven.

What age of dog is affected?
Clinical signs of syringomyelia secondary to occipital hypoplasia are usually recognized between 6 months and 3 years of age. However, dogs of any age may be presented and dogs with more severe disease tend to be presented before two years of age.

Do the signs get worse?
Progression of the disease is very variable. Some dogs have the tendency to scratch with mild pain only and other neurological signs, such as paresis, never or very slowly develop. Others can be severely disabled by pain and neurological deficits within 6 months of the first signs developing. A small syringomyelia may also be found as an incidental finding, with no recognised clinical signs, in the investigation of another neurological disease.

Are there any diseases with similar signs to syringomyelia?
The main diseases to rule out are other causes of neck pain e.g. disc disease (uncommon in dogs less than two years of age); CNS inflammatory diseases and other malformations. If scratching or face rubbing is the main sign then skin disease should be eliminated.

How do I know if my dog has Syringomyelia?
The only way to confirm a diagnosis is by MRI (Magnetic Resonance imaging). This is essentially a picture of the water content of the body presented in a series of slices (like a loaf of bread). Nervous tissue, which contains a lot of water, is not imaged by x-rays but is shown in great detail by MRI. The syringomyelia can be easily visualised as a pocket of fluid within the spinal cord. In severe cases the syrinx is so wide that only a thin rim of spinal cord remains

Thank you - and you say you feel this is a problem affecting Labradors commonly these days? Of course I cannot speak for CKCS at all, but have not heard of a single case in Labs reported so far in breed notes, through word of mouth or to the breed council health subcommittee...

Is there something you base your thoughts on about it becoming more previlent as we can start to air this and talk about it more.... breed notes for a start.... ???

Di

I dont think anyone said it affected labradors - or have I missed something?

Moonmaiden writes yesterday:
" Are you aware that Labradors & King Charles have SHM problems too ? "

Not to be a smartarse ;-) but this was written and It pricked my ears up.

Di

Cavaliers do require a lot of guidance & research before embarking on breeding, they are a lovely breed that is slowly being ruined by people breeding with little or no knowledge of what is behind their dogs


Sitting here with an ill Cavalier (well two actually, but the second one isn't as bad) I am actually feeling that the breed is in such a mess that something really drastic needs doing, to cut down the numbers bred that just continue the major problems with MVD & SM. Nothing is impossible if the dogs' best really was at heart of those that are in a position to make decisons. I'd for instace like to see a ban on registrations of puppies unless it was PROVED that the grandparents all were aged 5 & or over and still MVD clear and that both parents had been MRI scanned. (Or until the much longed for DNA test is available -it IS in the pipeline.) Drastic, yes, but ultimately this breed is going down the drain and may one day become extinct at this rate............. Personally I will not have another cavalier until these issues have been addressed more, I have changed breed to another toy breed (my toy dogs have always been first and foremost pets, no intention of breeding, I breed a pastoral breed, but I have shown Cavaliers and have owned 4) -and it breaks my heart to see so many people totally ignore the Cavalier's problems and go ahead with matings that will produce cute puppies that at 8 weeks appear 100 % healhty, may even appear 100 % healthy at 5 years, but will break the new owner's hearts aged perhaps 6 -by which time it may be a parent as well. Every time I see a Cavalier puppy I think to myself "I wonder if the owner knows what they are letting themself in for".

Well said Goldmali.  I'm sorry to hear of the problems that you have with your Cavalier. 

We're not in a position to regulate the breeding of poor quality puppies but you know that the majority on this board will continue to do their best to promote ethical and responsible breeding in whatever way they can, as they have always done.  Those who would disagree with you seem to be in the minority of one!

Those of us who spend time to help support the owners of illbred puppies will not encourage anymore to be produced.

Having written privately with no response, I would like to say publically that I object VERY strongly to this post, it is unecessary and utterly untrue. Enough said but please take your unnecessary personal grudge somewhere else as I have no idea who you are and if you read one single word of my many posts on this thread rather than reading one line of each and biting you'd see far more balance than you could possibly dream of considering by your recent replies (and lack of).

That really is enough but something had to be said there - this sort of thing is exactly why people back off from these boards.

Diana Stevens

In a nutshell, there are many reasons why he might not be reacting the same way - firstly he may have learnt a little from mating your other bitch last time. Secondly on day 6 she will not be smelling ripe at all, just in season. You are looking probably at least 5 or 6 days till she is mateable, so its a good job he ISN'T mounting her or she could be giving him some very firm tellings off.

Don't even owrry abut it. Seperate them off so he DOESN'T start bothering her, and then just conduct your matings when she is ready through discharge and body language signs, in your normal manner. If he is disinterested in her then, which is unlikely, you will have to go elsewhere, but if that is the case it could be she is not hormonally balanced and you need to miss this time round.

Things don't always go smoothly ;-( But i'm sure it will be 'alright on the night' when you eventually get there.

Di

Thread locked until the petty bickering can be removed and the thread returned to the original topic