Hi  a girl at work has two westies one a 5 year old boy has severe skin problems can anyone help with this she has tried  different foods and shampoo's and he is on Dorwest Garlic and fenegreek tablets both her and her vet are at a loss as what to do next they have tried the food allergy route
any westie breeders/owners advice welcome only the one dog is affected
Maya

Hi,

I have 4 Westies - Charlie, who is now 7 years old has suffered with skin problems since he was 12 months old. I won't go into the details of his progress as it will take too long but to look at him now you would never dream he has a skin problem at all. If you go to http://mywestieboys.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk  you can see some photos of him (and my other Westie rascals).
Can you give us a little more information such as, has your friend's vet done any tests i.e. skin scraping, blood tests, allergy testing etc.
Has she contacted the breeder of the dog for advice? How long has the dog been suffering with his skin? What symptoms does he have? What food has she been feeding him? Does she have his coat clipped or hand stripped? What part of the UK does she live? Sorry for all the questions but skin problems are a nightmare to resolve so the more info you give the better it is for members to give possible suggestions etc.

Thanks for this,  charlie is lovely  I will pass on your message to Claire who will be thrilled to learn that people do care  

I think she lives somewhere in the North West but I will have to ask and will let you know what she says

Thanks

Maya

Of course we care - I do at least. I know from personal experience how hard it is to resolve skin problems in our dogs. I also live in the North West and would love to help in any way I can - even if it's just to give moral support. It's a scary and heartbraking experience to know your dog is suffering and you don't know how to help. Even some vets are stumped by the causes of allergies. My regular vet, homeopathic vet, and veterinary dermatologist had run out of ideas of how to help Charlie so I had to take matters into my own hands to ensure that Charlie's skin condition didn't deterioate any more than it already had. Luckily things turned out okay for him, but I dread to think what state he'd be in now if I hadn't decided, by trial and error to try different things such as diet, environment, hand stripping his coat instead of having it clipped etc etc. What works for one dog may not work for another but until you try different things you won't know.

Could be aggrevated by the food i.e. an intollerance - has this been properly checked?  When you say your friend has "tried different foods" how long did she give each?  It takes about 3 months to be able to tell whether or not the food is properly suited.  I know James Wellbeloved do food specifically for dogs with skin conditions :)  What has the vet recommended?

When I get back to work on Monday will give Claire all messages and  come back with answers.  I have asked her to join champdogs.  I know in her last email to me she said that the breeder was not interested so she had not gone back there, what she meant I do knot know but will ask more questions. 

As for the food route the vet and her have been working together for about a year on this trying all sorts of foods not sure what the time table was but will get the answers on monday if I can

I suggested Wellbeloved and Burns to her and she said she is giving omega 6 and he is on dorwest  Garlic and fenegreek and its begining to help but again not able to answer correctly until monday.
Maya

Hi, I'm the work colleague Claire, mentioned above.  to save me posting a huge reply on here please feel free to take a look at www.phantom19.piczo.net - it's my ice hockey website but I have hadded a page called 'my westie' where I have put loads of info and photos.  Thank You all for your interest.  I can't believe the difference in the last week or so - the really bad smell has gone - he just smells like any other smelly dog now!  Now I just don't know what's caused it as I have put him back on Homeopathic remedies and Omega 3,6,9 as well as his steroids and piriton.  I have filled in the questionaire for the Queen Mother Veterinary College in London as they are currently running clinical trials - my vet has also offered to refer me to them but says it will probably be £150 just to be seen!

Welcome Claire glad to see you joined hopefully people here with westies will be able to help
Maya

Hi Claire and welcome ...

I can't seem to access the page for your Westie via the link you gave. Can you give a direct link to the page - thanks.

we have put 3 westies with severe skin complaints on atopica- all of which after 3 months are now nearly 100% recovered- its amazing, they went from black, scabby skin that bled easily- was v. itchy and uncomfortable- now they are happy dogs.

i dont work for atopica honestly- but we are singing its praises at work, because westies are always coming in with these symptoms, atopica- ask the vet!!!

goodluck and welcome xx

Hi Chris,

I also know of 3 Westies (2 from one family and 1 from another) who are on Atopica and their skin problems have improved dramatically. Of course, as with everything, there can be side effects, but without this treatment the dogs would be thoroughly miserable and have a poor quality of life. I groom 2 of the Westies (litter brother and sister) and I can see the improvement in their skin every time they visit and they are such happy little dogs.

its done wonders for them, the ones we have treated- 9month old,   6 yr old,  &   9yrs old.

the eldest had this condition for years and nothing had ever helped it- he's was very grumpy, poor man.
but he went to our groomers one day and she told the owner that he seriously needed looking at- he barely had any hair left- he was just black! it has took him 12 weeks and he's now got 80% coverage back- he's a different dog.

only draw back- cost, for 10 tablets costs roughly £30-£50 had a memory block- but extremely well worth it.

the lady who owns the eldest westie- is a pensioner, she said its money well spent as she notices the change week by week.
such a relief that there is such a drug, as these skin conditions are becoming rife in westies these days.

atopica are following every case that they can, so they can get the results tallied up.

as these skin conditions are becoming rife in westies these days. :rolleyes:

A bit of a generalisation.       I actually only know 1 or 2 westies with skin trouble and I know personally about 100 dogs.

My vet called me today to ask me to help a lady find a westie as she had selected a choice of another 3 breeds, he personally thought health wise of the 4 breeds she fancied , a westie was the safer option.  They are a relatively healthy breed in my opinion.

Hip problems, eye problems, skin problems are generally all herditary ( generally) so if you got to repuatable breeders whilst you cannot guarantee them to be trouble free you stand a better chance. 

A bit of a generalisation.       I actually only know 1 or 2 westies with skin trouble and I know personally about 100 dogs.

Can I suggest that the majority of the dogs that you know are well bred Westies Blue?? 

My experience is that well bred course coated Westies rarely (as you say ;) ) have poor skin.  BUT poorly bred, wrong shape, floppy eared, Queen Anne legged, long bodied, thin and soft coated, pet bred 'Westies' do frequently have skin problems. :)

skin problems are generally all herditary ( generally) so if you got to repuatable breeders whilst you cannot guarantee them to be trouble free you stand a better chance. 

Agree 101% !! :)

Right again Val.  :-)

Anyone I know personally would shut a line down right away if skin trouble showed up. The interest in the breed of course is not ££££ oriantated.

I personally have dogs from several lines ( decent breeders lines) and touch wood 100 times , I have been fine.

Sorry I missed this thread and didn't show support. I see Fourpaws and co are sorting you out :-)

Welcome

http://www.piczo.com/Phantom19?g=6639798&cr=5  does this work?  I have loaded the page and copied it from the address bar so I hope it does.  I am disappointed (for my dog) and very pleased you have all had such success with Atopica.  I tried it for 2 months and noticed a significant deteriation in his condition.  He got hotter, redder and the skin appeared to bleed more.  The vet was also very hopeful when he started it as she had a couple of other dogs that had showed improvement.  Maybe he should have had it longer?  I must admit I get a bit desperate and panicky if I see him getting any worse and maybe I'm not sticking to things long enough.  I have contacted the Westie Rescue Services as they have several photos of dogs that they have took on in a similar condition.  They use mainly Malaseb & anti-biotics but not steroids.

Jake is looking worse again tonight, but I think that's because I haven't been able to bath him since Saturday.  He's going back on James Wellbeloved food as most people seem to suggest this is one of the better ones.  I am kind of please that no-one has an obvious answer as I would be really miffed if I'd not tried something so obvious, but I think I have tried and tested nearly everything everyone has suggested.  Maybe it's just getting the right combination for him.  Has anyone ever tried acupunture?

Only my observations in the grooming parlour but Westie owners had great success by either feeding raw, or going to the other extreme and feeding Wafcol vegetarian!

gosh claire- hope you all the best with him, wouldnt know about acupuncture tho- sorry.
carry on with the baths as usual at least, hope the vet and yourself can sort it.x

oh- and no it wasnt a generalisation of westies- because nearly all of the breed here IS bred badly and nearly everyone develops skin complaints.

we are yet to have a failed atopica case- but we dont expect all to be cured by it, its just that the ones we have treated have all recovered.

we got them on jwb fish dry diet, so maybe that may help too.

HTH

oh - your westies are lovely, love jakes hair!

Yip Val total agree.

I have an older lady customer I have just started to do ( about 4 months)first came to me and she is disabled so struggles to get the the shop etc. I only do her little dog as a favour really for her and pick it up and drop it off.

The first time I saw this dog I couldn't beleive the state it was in.. it was bright orange all over and sore sore sore.

It was as you say a perfect example of the pet breed westies, about 3 times the size and a head like a rottle !!!!

Anyway I racked my brains what to suggest food wise , really what she could access.  Anyway we ( her and I ) decided to give butchers tripe a bash as it was accessable at the little shop and I if need be I would drop it off for her. ..  that and the only other thing was to keep him off the carpets ( new wool carpets in her lounge)

In 4 months you would not believe it was the same dog. He doesn't stink and he looks like a blond with 2 inches or dark root growth but the other way round. Even her vets are gob smacked.

All his white hair is coming back, he isn't greasy anymore and doesn't smell. His ears have been transformed.

I tell you I am gobsmacked how 2 simple things have turned this dog around. "process of elimination"

Hi Claire,

I do really sympathise with your. It must be awfully stressful for you watching this.

I personally wouldn't put any of the back on a dry complete food. I again personally think the protein is too high.

Did you see my post below about Butchers tripe? Not sure if it is avaliable where you are.   

One thing that strikes me is both your dogs are showing allergies, has the environment you live in been explored.

2 pets even from the same lines is a huge coincidence. 

Poor wee thing, do you know in all the years ive had westies I have never seen a skin problem, I sometimes feed mine raw tripe, but mostly, for convenience I use the "butchers range of dog foods" I like butchers as there are no additives in the food.  Please try the medications that have been suggested to you, have you  had skin scrapings done to see if its food or dust mites etc causing this.  Keep us posted on how the treatments work for you.

Has the vet done skin scrapes and blood tests to identify if the dog may be allergic to anything in the environment?

Many dogs are allergic to dust mites and or pollens etc.

tohme, this we were typing at the same time.  This was my thoughts , especially both dogs.

I remember a few years back a lady telling me about her dogs skin problems and it had came from a very reputable breeder, she really didn't missing giving the breeder a good verbal dress down.

I saw her a year later and it turn out the dog was being exposed to pesticide spray for the local farm, it was being carried in the air. Although it was a little away from the house , the area the dogs went into was open and exposed to winds etc.

She fenced the side off completely and additional moved the dog area to a shielded area and all the problems disappeared. 

She also of course has taken it up with SEPA and her local authority.

There is definately some problem with the environment, and the vet thinks he is allergic to pollens and grass seeds as well as dust mites, which is why I think he needs the Piriton.  I have considered trying to find someone to take him on for a few weeks to see if a general change would help.  I have a cat as well which probably doesn't help. I have removed all carpets from downstairs and keep it as clean as possible, and have washed his bedding in non-biological powders.  The heating is off all day so the rooms are cool.  I recently saw some hypo-allergenic bedding that I thought I might try but as it was furry I thought it might make him hotter.

The thing is Claire if a dog has a good immune system then it would cope with these things better. 
I've Googled the kennel affix that you've put on your website and there were no results.  Did the breeder show her dogs or did she produce puppies to sell?

Hi Claire,

I've finally managed to find some time to view Jake's photos. He may have a yeast infection - has your vet checked for this?
I had my Westie (Charlie) tested and he's allergic to house dust mites, flea bites, pollens, some grasses and trees, moulds etc.
I feed a BARF (raw meat & bones diet) to all my Westies and 1 tiny Yorkie and their coat and skin condition are excellent. Charlie sometimes has some hot spots - mainly on his back and sides but nothing I can't cope and deal with. I sometimes have to give him an antihisimine called 'Atarax' (obtained only on prescription) which works well for him although he hasn't needed any treatment for ages now.
I would love to have Jake live with me for a while as I have the facilities to bathe him on a regular basis, a dog friendly environment, and I could try him on a BARF diet, but with having 5 dogs in the house and I also do dog grooming (mainly Westies) I would be too many dogs on the premises.
I could ask my mum to have him for you (she lives 10 minutes walk from me). She looks after a friends Westie (bitch) when they go on holiday and looks after my boys when needed.
Where about in the North West do you live Claire?
I would recommend a change in food as Westies tend do better on a lower protein diet and most of the commerical dogs foods seem to be higher in protein (among other ingredients such as cereal etc).
As Val has mentioned - you also need to 'boost Jake's immune system'. Again, diet plays an important role in the overall wellbeing of our pets.
From reading your post and viewing Jake's website photos and write-up, you may not be giving enough time for changes to be noticed before you try something else.
Have you thought of getting a second opinion from another vet?

Hi Claire, please take fourpaws advice as she has "been there and done it" with two of her westies.  Can I say Fourpaws, Charlie and the others are looking great, credit to you.

Hi Marguerite,

If you remember, Charlie is the only one who suffers with allergies. Thanks for the compliment ...

Sorry J I thought the first two had allergies, my mistake. but tghey are looking good.

It's okay - not to worry I - it does get confusing as I have 4 Westies. Do you still have Cookie? 

YEs I still have him, and Midget and Pearl. Pearl is in joint ownership with my son, but still have them.

That's lovely to hear. I still have the photos I took of Cookie with my boys in your caravan. That was a few years ago now eh?

thanks for all your help and suggestions.  i am trying to stick to the 'try it a bit longer' idea to see if it helps.  I have updated my website with some later photos http://www.piczo.com/Phantom19?g=6639798&cr=5 - Annie likes to get in on the pictures as well though!  He is looking better and I think it's down to regular bathing, low protein food (may venture onto the raw/tripe suggestions if I can find a regular supplier - stupid really that I live in a city but dont know where to find a butcher!!! (peterborough by the way - not northwest - don't know where that came from))  he is obvioulsy feeling better as well as he has been more lively and playful in the last couple of weeks.

I will persevere and have a few questions for the vet when I next go - to ask about exactly what he has been tested for so far.

thanks again
Claire

I had a yorkie that suddenly developed a bad skin problem, the vet could not find out what it was and suggested taking her to a dog skin specialist, which I did, she could not find out what was causing it and put her on steroids. The steroids helped but she needed them all the time as if left off for a while she had very bad skin, I would never keep another dog on steroids as she died of cancer of the pancreas, about a year after going on them, and was told that the steroids could have caused it. She would only eat one dog treat schmackos and have since realised that there is yeast in them, my present yorkie would not eat them at all, but just after the light chews came out, I bought her some, she is a bit overweight so thought they would be the best ones to get for her, she was 4 years old and never had skin problems, but she suddenly had skin problems, took her to vet and she had creams and tablets but problem kept recurring, then it dawned on me that the light chews looked like schmackos, and checked ingredients, they had yeast in them as well, so stopped giving them to her and no more skin problems. She is just 7 years and no skin problems since she stopped having chews with yeast in them, there should be a health warning on all dog products with yeast in them I think, as probably there are a lot of dogs that cannot tolerate it, now check everything before buying to make sure she does not get any more skin problems, but what a pity the vet and skin specialist did not manage to find out it was yeast, before my little dog died of cancer.

my dobe boy has severe skin prob at mo and he is fed a BARF diet!!!!!