Michael

Just a quick question to clarify something for me before I add my opinion :D :D

You have your dog off lead and you round a corner to see me coming towards you with my Dobe on lead. You know nothing about how old my Dobe is nor the reasons for it being on a lead. What do you do, do you approach us and see what happens or do you put your dog on lead ??????

Also, these dogs that he is getting into trouble with are they on or off leads???

Beth

Beth,

:)

Where I walk our dog most of the dogs are off the lead but there are a few that are either put on the lead as we approach them or already on the lead. So to answer the question, if they were on a lead I would look at the owner first because sometimes the dog on the lead will be let off to play with our dog however if the owner looked anxious I would immediately put our dog on the lead or at least call him back and take his collar until they have passed us. I am aware that a dog could be on the lead for various reasons such as on heat, behaviour problems or training purposes and respect other dog owners who do enforce this but irrespect of the dogs size, age or breed I feel that it is important to be relaxed in your approach and allow the dogs to greet one another unless the other dog owner verbalises otherwise. I have learnt since the signs of dominance and the sequences that could follow so I am more ready to intervene earlier than probably before as I was all a surprise when it first happened as from 14 weeks my dog has always been free to greet all dogs and had never come across this before. I guess been a junior is very different from a puppy to other dogs and their tolerance to play etc.
I have since been reading this board and have found it very useful and informative and realise that not all dogs are the same and what works for one may not neccessary works for the other. But I am interested to hear other peoples opinions as there is some good advice and food for thought as I am learning and anything that will enable this adolesent phase progress smoothly will be a bonus for our dog and the others.

:) :)

HI there Michael

I would suggest that your Weim is becoming sexually mature, but is basically of course not socially mature - this maturation does take more time and unfortunately for us as owners the 2 don't complete at the same time.....and because of their strong nature this can present the sort of problems you are describing ;). Yes, the Kevin Syndrome LOL!

The dog will want to interact with other dogs, and wants to work out where he stands with each individual dog, especially strange dogs. If a dog with confidnece and a good understanding of canine body language tells him off, he accepts it, (whatever the dog's size), but in turn he wants to show dogs he perceives as weaker that hey, he's a great big Weim and what a strong and brave boy he is :D Hence the mounting and "aggressive" behaviour.

It may well pass, with social maturation, (completed at about 2 and a half to 3 for the average dog) but also may become "learned" to an extent. It may be a "phase" but you have no way of knowing :(

Problems such as this sometimes develop gradually and the first sign may often be a pretty general reduction in response to commands and an increase in boisterous behaviour.

Is he "aggressive" to both sexes, sorry if you have already explained but i don;t have your posts in front of me. I am guessing the answer is "no".....?

Well, i have a few ideas.

YOu could monitor his progress, but keep a diary and ensure he is put on lead at crucial times to avoid any confrontations with unknown dogs.....you dont want a fight to develop. After some time, you will have a better idea of whether it is a phase. It is important he still does have the chance to "meet and greet" though or he will become frustrated and lose what skills socially he does have. Remember to reward and praise good and acceptable behaviour.

So in other words, Manage the Situation until you have more info.

Totally perfect your obedience and always watch him, or get him addicted to a toy and perfect Leave it: my male dog would leave any dog squaring up to him for his KOng so it is possible :)

Use a headcollar - it gives much more control but please don't jerk him on it (It's OK I'm sure you're not that silly :D)

If you are seriously worried contact a reputable behaviourist. Some have trained stooge dogs which will be so helpful.

Try an Aboistop* - they are hard to get hold of at the moment although a b. will probably have one......they spray just under the dog's nose by remote control, and are very good, but personally i prefer to see then used under supervision.

Have a chat with your vet just to rule out any physical problem - I doubt this is the cause but you never know.

Consider castration. It is of course an op, but again see what the vet suggests.

Hth a bit.

LIndsay

* Whoops sorry I meant a MasterPlus - i'm going doolally with the opressive heat!!!

Lindsay

BTW, Clicker training is going fantastically. :D :D It's even helping to shape his recall - OH HAPPY DAYS !!!!!!!!!!!!

Beth x

HIya Beth

I'm so glad to hear that!! And i'm so sorry I haven't been in touch about it. Please do ask if there is anything specific I can help with, but you seem to be doing so well on your own!!! :)

Have you seen the new clicker book by Karen Pryor, great piccies and it has the Box trick which is great for mentally exhausting dogs!!! Have seen it in Pets at HOme.

A book I would heartily recommend is "Quick Clicks - 40 FAst and Fun Behaviours to train with a clicker"

This is SUCH a great book - has such brilliantly helpful stuff as Relax for Vet examination, Take Medication, Toenail clipping, Calming Excitable dogs, Modifying Dog to Dog interactions, plus loads of fun stuff such as Wave, Play dead etc. etc.

PLus loads of really easy to read "Scientific Stuff ", working at a distance, getting rid of theclicker .....I am so keen on this book, and MUST do more exerciese myself LOL!!! :D :D :)

The other great thing is the layout - piccies, anecdotes, and for example take the command "go to your place and settle".

They give The Final Picture, Uses, Prepatation and Props, The Steps along the Way, plus EXACTLY what to do to shape in session 1, Session 2, etc etc.

It's by Mandy Book and Cheryl S Smith.

Brilliant!!! And fun ;) :D

Love
Lindsay - pat to Mockodile!
X

One step ahead of you mate. Got it & v happily using it :D:D

As for the box trick, trouble is, The Mock can make a mentally exhausting game out of anything :) :)
Thanks for the suggestion

Beth xx

Oh excellent Beth!!! I am so pleased !!! :)

Lindsay
X

Hi Michael

Where I walk a lot of dogs are off lead too but I know that with a 9 month old 35 kilo Dobe, one has to be a bit careful.:p

My philosophy is that as the owner of a large breed dog one has several responsibilities. We must all be considerate of the fact that some people don't like dogs at all but are still entitled to walk along paths that are primarily used by dogs, that some people only like small dogs, that some dogs (either big or small) do not like being jumped all over by arrogant upstart youngsters :D :D and also, we must be aware of our responsibilty not to put our own dog into a position that can jeopardise it's future :D

My position on it is that my 9 month old Jake, whilst never having had a set-to with another dog yet ever, is too boisterous for most people and dog's likings. I simply can't let him jump on smaller dogs as he would squash them in one fell swoop !!!! I also can't guarantee that he won't still jump up at people etc either rendering them completely filthy or even pushing them over just because he doesn't know his own strength. I'm hoping that with the benefit of maturity coupled with my persistant training that he will calm down but in the meantime, I am not prepared to risk it. For example, when people are coming towards us, they do not know that he is just a puppy and boisterous with not an agressive bone in his body. But if he came full pelt towards you or your dog then you may not have time to register that he is "wagging his stump" and may be scared and then that may create a totally different situation or even worse, he could knock you stright over (he's done it to me !!!). I always put him on the lead as soon as I get people/other dogs/bikes or horses in view. That way I know that there is no risk. If the owner of another dog is friendly and speaks to me then we can discuss if it's okay for the dogs to play and if so then fair enough. If the other owner doesn't look too friendly, I believe that it's generally because they've clocked my breed and decided he's on the lead beacuse he's vicious and they just pass quickly. That's fine, I don't care that they're assuming something that completely untrue but these are the type of people who I could have a problem with if I let him run full pelt at them. I will not risk my wonderful friendly dog being PTS under the marvellous DDA because someone assumes his behaviour in advance due to his breed type. I will also not risk him being in trouble because he knocks someone over or worse, a child (when I know full well that when he got to them he only intended to give them a big kiss !!)

When people see me with my dog on his lead and refuse to put theirs on I also hope & pray that their dogs have an A1 recall as I can't tell you the number of times that people have allowed their off lead dog to jump all over Jake when he is on the lead. It puts him on the backfoot and if ever he is likely to react badly, it would be when he has no escape from me & his lead and I would be furious if after one such incident I had a dog that then turned agressive to other dogs due to fear. It's also no fun at all being dragged around by a 35 kilo puppy when he wants to play with what is jumping on him but I can't keep him still enough to even LET him off the lead. In one such incident of this type, I pulled both my ankle and shoulder trying to keep out of the way of the two dogs running around me with the other dog's owner calling his dog to no avail. But at the same time, the owner was saying " don't you dare let go of his lead" - to be honest I wanted to wrap it around his throat :D :D

I understand your stance on wanting your dog to be free to play but surely keeping him on the lead until such time that you have checked the situation is the best way to go here. It takes so little time to find out. My dog has plenty of play with other dogs but only dogs that are big enough for him to play with or that will tolerate his bouncyness, there is no point letting him jump on dogs that will not tolerate his behaviour when the end result is the risk of him being bitten or attacked, developing aggression issues or even worse, being in trouble with the law because of it.

Personally, I think that your beautiful Weim (incidentally another breed that I love :) ) needs to be monitored a bit until like Jake, hopefully, with time, the bouncing just tones itself down a bit :)

Beth :)

Excellent post Beth. I would love to meet more people like you on a walk :-)

Helen

Why thank you ma'am. After years of not having to be considerate to anyone or anything, it's a steep learning curve but with a Dobe, you've gotta take it eh?? :)

Beth

Beth ....you voiced exactly my feelings. I do NOT let Hudson off the lead for exactly the same reasons you keep Jake on his. Yet he has been jumped on by other (usually , I have to say , small dogs)....one in particular .....grrrrrr!

Why do people walk their dogs off lead when they don't have good recall?? It is something I will never understand ...

Melody

Good on ya Beth :D :D :D
I have to admit that this board is a wonderful site where all of us can share (vent? in Dizzy's [$ my case ])) our philosophies :D :D :D :D Although, I do sometimes feel a bit, 'lesser' from y'all because I have smaller dogs. LOL ;) :D :D Remember, it's only because of our lifestyle that I have limited ourselves to having two.... I'd have a bunch o' sighthounds rambling around the house if I could ;) :D :D

When I was younger and a lot more 'flexible', I could brace myself for the bounding large dog racing towards me. I love all dogs and didn't mind the dirt for the happy greeting. Now, because of some really nasty experiences, my first instinct is to seize up in fear. It's terrible. I really hate it. But each time I start to relax, someone loses control of their dog and bad things happen :( I don't want my dogs to be the cause of this for someone else, especially right now when laws and public perception of dog ownership is so tentative. :rolleyes:

As a dog owner, I firmly believe that part of my responsibilities is helping interested people to learn more about dogs :) My two are extremely approachable due to their small sizes and cheerily calm temperments. I get asked many questions about owning/training dogs because of them. :)

I want others to be relaxed and at ease around dogs. After all, haven't you ever heard someone say "Because of _______ happening to me, I don't like any ______." I've run into so many people that because of a single dog pushing them down or biting them, they really fear and hate dogs. That's why it is so important to maintain control during the awkward teen times. :) Don't alienate those who might help to vote against some of these stupid dog restriction laws :D :D :D I'd also hate to think of dogs not being allowed in parks due to non-dog individuals complaining about not able to enjoy their walks, either :( :(
jmho
toodles

Hi toodles, As you know I have giants, (and a couple of slightly smaller ones too) Wolfhounds have the reputation as being one of the gentlest dogs going, and yet a lot of people are terrified of them due to their size I think. I can honestly say I believe that my wolfies and deerhound would never attack or hurt anyones dog, but other people dont know that, and to have something of this size hurtling towards you could be quite a daunting experience. Because of this, I am very careful where I let them off. Lots of people who exercise their dogs where we exercise ours, know that they are kind and easy going, but not everyone does, so I keep them on a lead until I have spoken to anyone who dosnt know me, and have assured them that my dogs are safe. The other precaution that I take is never to let them loose if there are tiny dogs ( yorkies perhaphs) exercising. Gentle as they are, they are hunting hounds, and if a tiny dog was to be in long grass or undergrowth, a mishap could possible happen. I truely believe that we all choose our particular breeds and it is our duty to ensure that other peoples dogs are safe, as much as we expect ours to be safe too. One of my pet hates is ill tempered out of control dogs, coming and bothering mine, and then the owners complaining when they retaliate!!!!!!!

Hi Phil,
Has any of your hounds ever been a "grinner"? I imagine that would be a most terrifying sight to the poor unsuspectin' pedestrian ;) The large behometh racing up, baring the teeth, and waggin the tail :D :D :D

My Yorkie loved to "smile" when she'd meet people she knew... also my Lab/gsd mix. Chienne looks like she's a grinner when she's been running through the fields, but it's purely by accident :)

Ah, someday I hope to have one like yours... I can dream, right? ;) :D :D :D

Hi again toodles, Dream hard enough honey, and it will happen, dreams do come true sometimes :D I do have a grinner but its one of the Lurchers, but still looks quite daunting to the uneducated :)

I want he/she to have grey (tabby) striping just like Dusty :D :D :D :D

When she has her pups ( about two years lol) if there is one that colour, its yours as a pressie xxx

Och, yer so sweet :D :D Who knows? We might even be living in England by then ;) ... or in sunny Italy right on the coast between Livorno and Pisa :D :D :D

Beth, brilliantly put. I agree completely. I have an absolute sweetie but he is a big dog and if he decides to race toward someone, well, he could knock them down just from sheer speed (while delivering his slobbery kiss of course). So unless the area is clear of all others, on a lead he stays. We take a different route if I can tell in time that an off lead dog is coming our way and the owner doesn't appear interested in releashing her dog.

its not very supsrising that dogs are now starting to grumble etc when they see your dog coming-id be furious if i had my dog out and as all my dogs are leashed if theres any others about , and your dog proceeded to mount one of mine I DONT THINK SO!!!! and you say he bites the neck-this doesnt hurt!!!!! yet the dogs yelp, [cant think why?] your dog is your responsibility, you cant blame the others for excisting , YOU need to take control, if you cant then keep him leashed,---- tough if he doesnt like it---im sure the rest of the dogs and theyre owners aren't too thrilled about him either . CASTRATION AND OBEDIENCE LESSONS MIGHT BE A GOOD WAY FORWARD

Now then Dizzy ....don't hold back ...tell us what you really mean

:D

:D

Melody

melody :) felt id better hold back :rolleyes: :D , incase i got banned!

LOL @ Dizzy !!!! She strikes again. I thought I'd been v diplomatic about it - that's why I asked the question first

Beth x

I did not respond to this post before now as I was purely gobsmacked at the attitude of Henry . It is other peoples fault that his dog hops on any dog he meets and trys to hump it and bite the misfortunates neck , come on that is unreal talk .
Well I can tell you now if your weim hopped up on my Berry and did that to her, like it or not I would give him a whack on the bum and send him on his way . And if that did not work then I expect it is Henry would get whack on the bum :)
Seriously now Henry you need to be very very careful here because if your weim decides to do that to a certain type of dog there may not be a certain weim around to do it again .

Mari, that was my my thought too and it doesn't have to be an ill-natured dog. As Phil says deerhounds/wolfhounds are the most laid back of dogs but the will defend themselves. I suspect that some of mine would take a pretty dim view of a strange dog that tried to mount them and grabbed them by the neck.

Are we talking dog or owner here Dizzy. Ja:)kie

not telling :) but both might seem a good idea !

Sorry Dizzy can't agree about the dog. Ja:)kie

jackie , think you could change your mind about the dog very quickly if it was fastened around one of your males whilst hanging onto its neck -[ without hurting it of course!] and having its wicked way!!!

LOL Dizzy at the visual image... Ick!!
My mom had an interesting leash that worked really well for the type o'dog that you're describing. It was braided leather where it hooked into our collie's collar. But about 4 feet up, it was wrapped around something hard for about a foot (the handle part) --- a kind of reverse whip. I saw her wield that thing like a club when a dog grabbed ours by the neck. Whimper and run away.... :rolleyes: Yeah, she was a really bully ;) :D :D

nope!!!!! your mom is my hero!!!! and im sure any dogs that she had out with her :D

Of course, I "misused" it on my much older brother when he was picking on me :) Well, it evened up the age/size difference in a hurry :D :D :D :P

Dad said it was a German leash he had brought back from Stuttgart in the early 1950s...I've never seen anything like it since

I didn't read this thread before as I thought it would relate to 'Kevin' behaviour and a 'desperate' owner thinking how they could make their dog more sociable:D Not how to make the owner more sociable;)

BethN - if only you lived nearer I would love to see the Mock be released and play with DD but please let me be sitting downd first:D

The poster mentions other dogs having their heckles raised when meeting your dog - does this not tell you your dog is sending out 'signals' to other dogs? To be honest I am sick and tired of meeting dogs when out who behave in the wrong way and the owners think it's OK or do some really whimpy telling off!!!

Having said that there is a Weim owner near us and the Weim has been attacked and the owner is very aware of his problems and keeps him on lead at all times. But because we do keep meeting we have built it up so that we can now pass one another on the same pavement:D
Anita

PS Toodles - Please can we meet your smaller dogs too:D If you ever make it to the UK:)

Anita,
My girls would love to meet anyone who wants to see them. Well, Samma would. Chienne would meet/greet for a moment and then go sniff a blade o'grass ;) :D
I'd put pictures of them on the Cleo site, but all of them were 'deleted' accidently by my esteemed spouse a year or so ago... Our scanner went fritzy just before that. Hopefully, we'll be getting a new computer with all the bells and whistles perhaps round 'Feb time :)
I'd love to 'hear' the debate on the colouration of Samma. I just call her blonde...but there's buff, gold, fawn, yellow, etc... to describe her :D :D

Well at the risk of another hornets nest:

Why do so many posts (also on other threads) carelessly recommend castration as a solution to behavioural problems :rolleyes: A dog is male, why decide to begin a relationship with a dog then chop it's bits off when the going gets a little bit too tough! The only reason should be a medical condition.

This seems a lazy excuse for correct training and by correct training I don't mean rolled up newspapers and bum smacking. My God! Barbara Woodhouse :( I can't believe how some people can be so proud of themselves when they say it works and has worked for all their previous dogs (poor souls). Yes it works but for the right reasons? Next I’ll be told to pin my dog down to show him who's boss :rolleyes:

BTW if I give my address can I expect a lynch mob with burning cross in the middle of the night :p

Seriously though, I have been able to pick out some very useful information from the majority of posts, so a sincere thanks. As a result of this and other research my wife and I are on top of the situation so everyone can sleep tonight (unless your part of the lynch mob).

Oh Michael :(.......

And I spent such a lot of time writing what I considered to be a very fair and eloquent reply that was actually trying to help you :(....Oh well, you win some, you lose some. Sorry you think you've been treated so harshly but I don't think that you have. People are trying to help you see all sides of the coin.

Beth
AIBN

Beth,

Your post was amongst the most constructive and useful. In fact every post has provided useful information in some form or another :)

but michael , your dog isnt trained!!! YOU failed to train him, so meanwhile everyone elses dogs has to suffer from his total lack of respect!!!! but never mind-keep telling him BAD BOY!!! and keep TRYING to pull him off, im sure it will make everything so much better :)

Perhaphs a smack on the bum, would do more good than you think :D
(Tongue in cheek, but...............)