Hi all,

Our (nearly) 5 month old GR is coming along great, but there's seems to be an issue which is starting to present itself that I need some advice on.

From day one we've socialised her with other dogs, big ones, small ones, puppies, older dogs the lot. She goes to puppy classes where she has supervised greeting, and limited play time as well as excercises that require her to focus on me and follow instruction despite other dogs,. which as long as there's sausage on offer she does really well with. However, when we're at home or in the park if another dog comes round or she see's one it's like I vitually don't exist. I can try and get her attention with treats/toys and she probably pays attention to me (max) 50% of the time. A few days ago over the park, some banana had let his Jack russell off who must have bounded about 200 yards over to me and Roxy and was jumping all over the shop. ROxy was trying to play (In fact she ran so fast after this JR she nearly wrenched my arm out of my socket) and as the JR was not on lead I just couldn't bring Roxy away. I'm afraid to say she was totally out of my control. I tried to be more interesting, give treats - to no avail :(

Last night, my parents bought thier 5 year old Belgian shepherd who's very laid back and from what I can now tell not really a dog dog. To this effect Lucy (BS) attempted to ignore Roxy for the whole 3 hours they were there, occasionally growling and snapping at Roxy from time to time as Roxy simply would not stop barking and running up to her (as pups will). I let them meet outside but when I tried to get hold of Roxy (as Lucy seemed to get a little distressed) she went absolutely nuts at trying to get to Lucy and when I was trying to get her under some sort of control (bring her away) she was actually choking herself :( For the 1st hour and a half Roxy barked the house down. My parents said that the heirarchy will sorts itself out, as as Lucy was the bigger dog, that Lucy would put Roxy in her place. Since it's Roxys house, I didn't feel that this should be the case - perhaps I'm a bit guilty in that I sometimes anthropomorphise Roxy's behaviour/status but I don't see why this should fair - i.e. why should she be behind the child gate in the kitchen becuase of all the noise etc and Lucy is then able to walk around the other rooms when it's Roxy's house. Anyway, I digress....was Roxy being so gobby because of Lucys nature? Is it because she's just a puppy? I know the answer's in here somewhere but I just can't spot it.

My aim really to have Roxy's attention on me when other Dogs are around, but I'm totally at a loss how to do this. Her recall around the house (not tested outside_  is about 85-90%, her basic (and few more complex) commands are great but when other dogs are around - Sod Mum!

I want to be able to have my friends round with thier dogs without Roxy a) Barking the house down, b) Hanging off thier ears/face/neck c) Choking herself to death when I try to take her away from the dog d) trying to hump every dog there is (another behaviour which I'm confused about - she humps all dogs, male/femail the lot)

Thanks so much for anyone who is either still reading and/or can offer some advise.

Karen

Hiya,

I can totally sympathise as I have a dobe girl now a year old who absolutely loves all other dogs.  However I think your over thinking and complicating matters :-) - she's a baby who having been well socialised thinks all other dogs a great fun and that's pretty normal.  The barking at home would have been frustration at wanting to get at and play with the other doggie she could hear and see in her home and not get to.  Other dogs as a general rule react differently with puppies and seem to be aware that they are such, but if they become pestering or rude they will generally be told with a growl or an air snap which you said Lucy did.  This is part of how pups learn their manners, getting told off by their elders when they are going to far or getting a bit much and as long as you know the dog and are supervising I think this is a good thing.  Obviously in the park you do need to be careful as you don't know that all dogs that she may want to introduce herself to are friendly.  If you are struggling to keep hold of her it may be worth trying to get her used to a headcollar just for the times when she's likely to get over excited, that way you can have more control without her choking herself while you work on training.  It is difficult to make yourself more interesting to a pup who loves other doggies, it's gonna take lots of work :-)  Maybe you could get her very focussed on a ball that is only used for walks/ have a special treat that is only used for walks or when trying to distract her from other doggies.

HTH.

Karen

Hello Fluff76.  As you know, we have a puppy the same age as yours and from our experience I don't think your puppy is any different from any other well socialised puppy.  Our is probably a little less over the top than yours with dogs she doesn't know - but she absolutely finds them more interesting than us.  She also pesters our other dog 100% of the time she is awake.  I have the same tendency to anthropomophise our older dog and I feel so sorry for her - I feel her house and nice quiet lifestyle has been torn apart and I am sure those big doleful eyes are saying "how could you do this to me Mum?"!  However, I am told by those who know better than me that this is all normal dog behaviour and they will sort it out between them in due course.  I am hoping the puppie's focus on us will improve over time (she is also great at training classes like Roxy) - although we have that wonderful "teenage period" to go through yet......!

So...no  advice, but I thought you might like to know you are not alone!

Anyway, I digress....was Roxy being so gobby because of Lucys nature?

AH, the combination of Golden and BSD, that is one I know only too well. :D :D Yes I see this ALL the time -every single day. Excited young Golden wanting to play (my youngest Golden is 2), Belgian just standing there staring "Do you mean me? You've got to be kidding, I have NO wish to play right now!" and so the Golden will bark and bark and bark and try his utmost to MAKE the Belgian play. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't -depends on which Belgian it is! :) The thing is Goldens NEVER grow up, Belgians do! :)

Oh god that so reminds me of how my Elkhounds each in turn outgrew my friends Golden bitch, who was the same age as my eldest, who never played with her, but her daughter was her mate, then her daughter and so on down the line.  by 3 years old each of my Elkhounds would eventually look at Ruby as if she were a slightly retarded child

By the time we got to tank Jozi who was a bit of a bull in the china shop I had to put a stop to the play for the Goldens safety (Goldie 8 years old by then), as she had torn her cruciate playing with a young ESS, a year earlier.

Hi Fluff76!

My 5month GR is exactly the same!!!  He pulls like mad and expects other dogs/people to greet him/stroke him whenever he sees them!!!  Otherwise he is well behaved and a joy 2 have!  I know how difficult it can be because at five months they are getting quite strong.  I intend taking him to obedience classes to see if it will help b4 he gets any stronger - couldn't take him b4 due to work commitments but I've managed to change my shifts so it shouldn't be a problem to take him now.  I did take him to puppy classes when he was 9 - 13 wks.  He loved playing with the other dogs and would try to mount them - male or female then!  I was told it wasn't a sexual thing at that age but was more a case of trying to be top dog!  I guess the same thing still applies bcos they are still only puppies.  Anyway you are definitely not alone and I will be interested in reading any replies you have.

If your pup was a small child and you went to the park to play in the kiddies playground would you be surprised that your child was more interested in the other children and got overwrought when having fun!

It is not surprising that their own species is more interesting to them than you are.

When you are on a foreign holiday ad you hear people speaking English I bet you feel like saying hello, especially if it isn't a touristy area.

As for the hierachy thing in your home, the other dog is older and should be above your pup regardless whose house it is.  You wouldn't expect not to tell a freinds child off for being rude to you when you visited would you?

Your Mums dogs behaviour was as it shold be faced with an OTT youngster.  A well mannered adult will initiailly try ignoring, and use that as their main tactic, and a growl or air snap if they get too out of hand.  She will not offer to play with the pup until pup moderates her behaviour, and you shoudl not interfere with them if she is taking this tack, other than ensuring the adult can get away from brat pup.

Only maturity and consistent training will improve thigns very slowly, two steps forward and one back.

I would certainly have had pup off lead long before now in safe areas (or on a longline if no enclosed areas), the longer you leave it the more confident they get and are more likely to take advantage of their freedom, a baby pup will want to stay close to you, and this can be used to advantage in recal training an independent breed like mine

I would certainly have had pup off lead long before now in safe areas (or on a longline if no enclosed areas), the longer you leave it the more confident they get and are more likely to take advantage of their freedom, a baby pup will want to stay close to you, and this can be used to advantage in recal training an independent breed like mine

Fully agree. I start at 8 weeks (after first vacc, don't wait until second) to let a pup off the lead, at that age they are like velcro and you have to try hard not to trip over them.  Then I keep changing directions and often run away and hide behind a tree or a bush (without going TOO far of course as at that age there should be no exercise as such!) and I keep this up during the dog's entire life. All my dogs know I'm an unpredictable so and so and they best keep their eyes on me as otherwise I might disappear, and so they all come the split second they are called -because they learnt from a young age that they don't like to be left behind.  The only one I ever had a problem with was one who had health problems so could not be taken out off lead until 8 months of age as he wasn't allowed to walk at all.

Hi Karen

I think there are a few things to say here.

The most urgent is - please don't just leave your puppy and the adult Belgian to "sort things out" and "establish a hierarchy".  When puppies meet adult dogs or other puppies when out on walks, their play should be closely supervised to make sure it stays equal and consenting (on the part of both puppy and other dog) and not overly rough and in the same way, your puppy's interactions with this adult dog need to also be equal and positive.  If the adult dog doesn't want to play with the puppy, don't let the puppy harass the other dog - remove the puppy and give the adult dog some space and peace.  You don't want the adult dog to have to tell the puppy off, since this is (potentially) not great for your/a puppy's socialisation, so don't let it get that far.

Second, well done on socialising your puppy with other dogs so successfully and making her thoughts about other dogs so positive.  Now you need to redress the balance and make her attitude to you just as good.

As she's now 5 months old, so past the peak of the socialisation period, and since she sees other dogs at training class every week, I would try to avoid other dogs for now at other times, like when you're out for a walk.  Use this time to develop the bond between you and her.  A good way to do this is by playing games with her, like tuggy, or trying to run away and squealing in a high pitched voice while letting her chase you, then turning round and playing with her when she catches you.  Throwing balls for her - whatever she enjoys - experiment and find out.  Don't just "go for a walk".  Basically - make sure she has a really fun time _with you_ - you have to provide her with as much fun as another dog would.  Training using treats when out on a walk is also a good way to develop a bond and to practise what you're doing in class.  Make sure you have a command (like "Go play") which means she's free to go and sniff and do doggy stuff on her own, and the rest of the time you want her to be doing stuff with you and are rewarding her with treats when she does it right. The purpose of avoiding the other dog owners is to try to make her forget about the fun which other dogs are and to look to you for fun and games. 

If you think you might run into other dog owners, I'd put a long line on her and let her trail it.  You should have extra tasty treats with you for recalls, not just whatever you're using for the other behaviours, but really tasty smelly stuff.  You should practise the recall around the house and garden 20-30 times a day, every day, and reward with this very high value reward.  You want it to become an unthinking response, so drill it.  When you go for a walk, call her to you often for no reason, for a high value treat and release with "Go Play" again. 

Thanks everyone, with regards the BS situation, I had told my parents that I'd look after Lucy this weekend, but after last nights activitys they ended up taking Lucy home again. Would they have settled down after a period of time? Or was is for the best that Lucy didn't stay for a few days?

FeeBee and other puppy owners - It's great to know that she's just being a puppy! Also the advice about her socialisation period and how we go on after this has been extremely helpful. I was aware that getting this period right was vital, but was at a loss really how to continue to develop/guide her behaviour after this time.

I was also getting to a point where I was starting to think about how to do off lead walking as I think she'll love it - but was concerned about her getting carried away and I'd just see her hind legs as she bounded off to the other side of the park!!

So, long line required - anyone got any recommendations of long line/harness combos they've had experience of? What length do I need and width of line?

Thanks again all!

Karen

I think you did the right thing to send Lucy home, otherwise you would have been busy supervising or keeping the two separate - possible but hard work!

As for the long line, it depends how heavy you want the line.  Mikki made a webbing long line but if you want something lighter, you can use a washing line (might make your hands sore though).  I would recommend the Mikki harnesses as well, as they are fully adjustable and seem to stay on better than some of the other brands - I think you'd need a Large.

I use a training lead which can be shortened or lenghtened to choice which also has a handle lower down for closer work.

We've been letting our puppy off the lead for a few weeks now....we found that she was quite nervous when we first let her off (despite the fact that she pulls on the lead like a mad thing!) and she stayed very close to us.  She is gaining in confidence now but always comes running back when we call - partly for security and partly because we always have a nice big treat for her!  Have you not go somewhere safe where you could try letting your pup off lead - they do love it!

merlin always ignored us when there were other dogs around until he was about 7 months old. I am not sure whether he grew more obedient or it was our constant vigilance that curbed this. We would watch to spot people and as soon as we did we would recall and put his lead on, then if they had a dog we would walk over and ask if he could say hi, when he had done this he was fine, it took lots of time though and even sometimes now i have my doubts over whether he is going to run or not. The other thing was my spoilt little man would recall perfectly if he really liked the treat, if he was indifferent he wouldnt. We constantly practice recall, whether we see another dog or not, just to reinforce it, (he is a beagle), as if he is not in the mood to be obedient we keep him on a long lead. Keep practising and try and be patient as (only speaking for my own dog), if we are a bit frazzled he is really naughty, he must sense the mood.When dogs visit he goes nuts aswell, but he soon learns who is going to play and who is not, i know what you mean though as my brothers dogs practically bullied him at our house and he was only trying to play, they soon learn from each other. Good luck.

Having another breed that would sooner please itself I can sooo identify

I agree about the putting on lead and then giving the pup the opportunity to greet dogs in a controlled way.  I feel this is vital with a bright dog that woudl work out that you were depriving it of fun by recaling every time a dog appeared, and woudl start to avoid coming back.  Coming back always needs to be rewarding.

RE the Belgian and Golden - my Belgian Terv bitch goes out regularly with a group of males - beardies, flatcoat and golden, and she is the one who is always asking for a game, doing play bows and so on, whilst they play for a bit then prefer to sniff and do other things :P  My first 2 Belgians played and ran together for almost all their lives. I think they may prefer to play with other Belgians perhaps, given the chance. But i agree that they do "grow up" mentally although physically they remain young for a very long time.

I hope you manage to sort things out with your golden, you have some excellent advice :) Remember too that she's still very young and what seems so exciting now may be not so exciting in a few months or a year.

Good luck
Lindsay
x

I am just having a few problems with my rehomed golden, how do you owners find your dogs react meeting on lead? mine is fine off lead and makes friends easily but on lead he will try and jump on the other dog which i thought was due to lack of socialising at a young age but have been told he is dominant. It looks to me like the jump stance when they go to play off lead and chase but i may be wrong. I also had the problem of him running off if he saw another dog but have since got him to sit and stay and then take him over to the dog then let him off if the dog is friendly. But i have since been informed he is dominant.