I know puppy farmers and back yard breeders have been discussed alot on here and it is always questioned WHY people buy from such 'breeders'.

I was having a chat to a couple at a show who bred mini daschunds....  I mentioned that a friend of mine wanted a b/t one (and no not me I am getting a pug :-) ).  Anyway I was told that nobody would sell her one because they are very hard to come by because they only have small litters.  Fair enough I thought BUT then it occured to me that if she could not get a puppy from 'show people' then how could she get one?????  Do you see where I am coming from???  Obviously she has a brain and will NOT go to a BYB but joe public might end up going down this route because they may not find another option.

Makes you think eh?

And thats what the Puppy Farmers are capitalising on. The problem is that they offer convenience (delivery!) and credit because they take Visa. All the worst ingredients for a impulse purchase.

Its mainly a question of waiting - to say your friend will not get one full stop is not true - in any breed, good breeders will have waiting lists and sometimes there will be more pups than people on the list - this is also where breed clubs can help.

I'd have thought that any breed that had smaller litters/difficult births would be a big no no for the BYB/farmers?

Having said that I suppose it depends on how much they can get away with charging for them :rolleyes:

And how many bitches they can keep...

Smaller breeds are perfect for Puppy farmers or people having " a breed to support their other"  that happens a lot also. They tend to keep bigger versions of the breed also ;-)

People will keep 3-4 little bitches to 1 big one and just have 3-4 more litters. The breed record supplement makes an interesting read at times.

My OH is making some whelping boxes at the moment and I had a woman mail me who shows Setters but had westies , in her words " to help support her setters"  ...disgusts me.

had the same thing when looking for a mini schnauzer- the woman said her and hub dont earn a lot, so the dogs have to pay their own way by having pups. she had 5 minis i think.

Also the purity of the breeding is at times questionable.  classic case woudl be some of the CKCS which have had more than a dash of Welsh Springer blood (usually easy whelpers of largish litters for such a size dog).

There's NO WAY I'd buy either of my current breeds or any dog for that matter from a BYB or a puppy farm outlet. It's just a symptom of today's impatient and throwaway society and 'I want it and I want it YESTERDAY! an I want it in this colour'.

I'm sorry, but getting a pedigree puppy to the 'correct specifications' has to be done in the old fashioned way - you might have to wait longer than 5 minutes for a puppy and - perish the thought - you might have to actually save up the money rather than buy it on credit. Sadly though, it's all too easy to go to some establishments, pick your puppy like you would a new microwave or fridge, sign the credit agreement and there you have your latest piece of consumer equipment. Mind you, when you can buy a human baby on the internet, there's not much down for puppies is there.

I think you've made a very valid and realistic point - unfortunately that is what makes puppy farmers their most money IMO :(  

All we can do is hope that by raising the profile of how to go about buying reputably bred dogs that the message eventually gets across.

regards, Teri

I have faced a similar problem myself while looking for a Chihuahua. Although Ive been told I wont get a pup because Im in the UK on a working visa and 'what will happen to the pup when you go home'. Not that it is anyones business really.

But I intend to stay on once my visa has expired as my fiancee is a citizen here, and its becoming very tiresome having to explain this and share personal information about my status here with breeders for them to even speak to me, then only to have them, in most cases, start asking me personal questions about my relationship so they can decide if I am really going to stay on or if I am bsing them at which point, depending on my mood I usually tell them that details of my relationship has nothing to do with my ability to provide a good home for a puppy, or I tell them to mind their own business. Because honestly that information is personal, and along with my status here should only be shared with immigration and my employer / potential employers. And regardless of all that, should I ever go home the dog would come with me.

Honestly the way I have been spoken to and the things said to me. Ive been told that Im just one of 'those' people who will throw the dog away when it comes time to go home etc. Which is extremely presumptious and RUDE. Ive been called all manner of names as well because of my accent and its not something I would have expected to deal with, or have to deal with, when looking for a puppy.

In my situation BYBs and farmers treat me better when I call up - not that I knowingly called them, I called, then went to see pups when I realised what kinds of operations these people were running.

I have no intention of buying a pup from one of these places, but I can immagine others in my situation doing so, even if only because of the treatment they have received from reputable breeders. But at this rate it looks like I wont get a pup from a decent breeder without providing copies of my visas and all kinds of other rubish - something that I was actually ASKED for!!!

Ella

My friends were in a similar situation to you when they were looking for a pup. They knew they would only be in the country for a few years and several breeders refused to sell them a pup as they would not allow the dog to leave the country when the time comes for them to go home. They did eventually find a very good breeder who is well known and respected within the breed who was fully supportive of them. She even takes the dog back to stay with her when they go on holiday, knowing that they have no family here to help them out. However, my friends were very up front with every breeder they approched about their circumstances and were prepared that some would not consider selling a puppy to them. Good breeders want to ensure that their pups stand the best chance possible of staying in the home in which they are placed forever. I know it must seem unfair to you but they really are only trying to do the very best by their dogs.

Don't give up your search...the right pup is out there for you.

On another note....

I have been flabbergasted (not a usual state for me, I might add) at the number of people who have asked me when (not 'if') I will be breeding my bitch like it is just a foregone conclusion that I am going to simply because she is a breed that is unusual in these parts. When I tell them that I am not going to and that she is to be spayed soon, the reaction is always '...but think of all the money you could make' :( OH's father even asked at the weekend if I'd reconsider my decision as one of his friends would really like one!! I told him (as I have done others) that if they want to find out more about the breed with a view to owning one, then I will put them in touch with a couple of respected breeders but this person has said that he only really wants a pup if it's from my bitch...and he hasn't even met her (or me for that matter)

Besides, there are enough of this breed being puppy farmed in this area. One puppy farmer that I know of (I know someone who bought a dog from him) is really trying to exploit the high prices that this breed attracts. If someone contacts him and expresses reservations about the cost, he tells them to pick a bitch because they can bring it back to him to be mated with his stud dog free of charge and they can re-coup the cost of the dog by selling the pups!!! Outrageous

Here endeth today's rant :(

Ella the difference in the attitude between breed enthusiasts and BYBs is very simple. 
The Breed enthusiasts are concerned about what will happen to their pups throughout their lives, which is why they want to know about your personal situation.  When I get the first tentative enquiry for a puppy, I offer no information about availability at all.  My reply is to ask about the home/personal situation and their dog owning experience.  Depending on the prospective owners' reply, I then either invite them to visit or reply that I have no pups available.
A BYB on the other hand is only concerned with taking your money and has no interest about what sort of home an enquirer is offering, or where their pup will be in 5 years time!:rolleyes:

When trying to find a FCR I 'endured' an hour long interrogation over the phone from a very straight talking lady She then proceeded to put me in contact with a breeder, who in her words 'may allow me to go n her list'. There followed many phone calls, and visits to their house, before I was told I would be able to have one of her pups. It was well worth it and also having the satisfaction of knowing I was dealing with a responsible breeder, who had the best interests of her pups as her main priority.

Ditto Val - I ask loads of questions without saying whether or not I have puppies. If I am happy with the replies I will then say I will not be having puppies until...(approx.) and that I will pass the info on to another breeder that is planning a litter before me if they are agreeable.

Try not to be too offended Ella. Ask a breed rescue the main reason why dogs come to them - it's probably because a relationship broke up, or someone's circumstances changed. Your personal situation may seem to be private, and not their business, but the reality is personal relationships, work, and housing situations are big contributors to the number of dogs looking for homes. After all, most good breeders are only trying to do what is best for their puppies. It might be your 'none of your business' attitude that is putting them on edge. I'm here as a permanent resident and had no problems with breeders. But I was very open about every aspect of my life that would affect the dog's quality of life. I wouldn't mind showing my papers to any breeder who was concerned about my long-term commitment.

While i can understand that people do not want to reveal personal details about themselves, i do think they should expect to be asked questions about themselves, i would not have weanted to leave my children with people i knew nothing about why should i want to let strangers i know nothing about have one of my puppies.
I spend a long time conversing with potential new owners, my OH says either the phone is welded to my ear or i am tapping away at the computer most of the time, but i feel that if people do not want to answer my questions they are not the people i want to own one of my babies.
I ask lots of questions and it does sort out the good from the bad, some think i am stupid as over some lengthy chats with one person it emerged he had a dog of the oppposite sex to what he asked me for, when asked why he wanted a female when he already had a male he said "to keep our boy company" please!! when i told him he would be better of with another male and if i let him have a female it would be speyed i did not hear from him again.
Most of the new families my babies go to say they are pleased that i take so much interest in asking all of these questions as they know that i care.
Potential buyers should look at the other side of the coin sometimes and realise that lots of questions usualy mean tht the breder cares about their pups.

exactly
education is the only way.
& the fact that a dog is not a pint of milk. must change the concept that you decide & then have to have straight away!

waiting is a GREAT part of getting a puppy!!!!