I can't offer an informed opinion when it comes to rural living as I've always been a city girl but I can understand that country-dwellers may be able to offer some justification for owning a 4x4.  Saying that, I have spent brief periods in the countryside as I was required to see some large animal practise.  I worked in some fairly remote places including the Yorkshire Dales and the Scottish Highlands (in winter) and we managed fine with a normal car.  I don't want to argue that point as I don't feel I know enough about country living so I will leave that topic to more knowledgeable posters.

However I would like to offer my opinion on 4x4s in London.  I cannot see any sensible reason for anyone to own one of these vehicles in the city.  I suspect that many 4x4 owners in London rarely venture north of Watford and while I admit that London roads have a few potholes, I find it hard to believe that anyone would require an all-terrain vehicle in order to navigate these.

I used to work in a practise in Muswell Hill in North London which was located about 100 yards from a school.  I was half bemused/half horrified to observe hundreds of parents driving their children half a mile or so to school every day.  Forgive me if I'm missing some obvious point but this seems not only a shocking waste of environmental resources but also utterly senseless.  One could walk half a mile in about ten minutes but instead of walking, many parents chose to sit in a traffic jam for the same length of time, if not longer.  I can understand this behaviour if the weather is particularly horrid but generally speaking I see no reason to use a car for such a short journey.  I would also venture that a large proportion of the children would probably benefit enormously from some exercise.

I would estimate that about 50% of the vehicles were 4x4s.  Why on earth are they necessary in North London?  Personally I have decided against owning a car as public transport here fills my needs.  Although we Londoners undoubtedly enjoy a good moan about the state of our transport system, when compared to other parts of the country it is more than adequate.  Not only do we have the Tube, there are countless bus services which aren't too unreliable and numerous overland trains.  Fares might seem high but I would bet that most people would spend less on a monthly travelcard than they would on maintaining a car.

We do have a practise car which I use on occasion, (home visits etc.) and usually it turns out to be such a hassle.  When one finally reaches one's destination after braving horrendous traffic, the chance of finding a parking space is remote.

Sorry, I've gone slightly off-topic.  I genuinely cannot think of any reason for requiring a RangeRover/similar in Chelsea.  I really would be interested if anyone feels that such a car is necessary.  Sorry, the last sentence sounds really sarcastic which is not my intention at all, I honestly would like to know the purpose of 4x4s in an urban environment.

If I were Mayor, I would extend the congestion charge to cover the whole of Greater London for 4x4 owners and put that revenue into improving public transport.  As others have pointed out, if someone is hellbent on driving a 4x4 then they're clearly not destitute and could afford to pay a substantial sum for the privilege.

JMHO

My car has been hit twice while I have been sitting in a school car-park - both times by mothers driving 4x4 who didn't see my car and reversed into it :( One didn't even notice and drove off (or perhaps she did :( ) - unfortunately it was dark and I didn't get the number plate :( I also followed a queue of cars driving VERY slowly in snow. The car holding everyone up was a woman driving - guess what - a 4x4 :D IMO very few people can drive these cars properly :D

Daisy

They park extremely haphazardly, even dangerously, around our local primary.  I know some of them and I know how close they live.  The school has introduced a walking bus but it gets very little support, perhaps because it relies on a rota of mothers walking too :rolleyes:

The children in our village are bussed to school and the parents pick them up from the end of my road. Some of these parents live in my road and DRIVE the few hundred yards in their huge trucks to pick up their little darlings!:rolleyes:

DONT GET ME STARTED
My mum lives up the road from a school. The amount of parents that drive there in 4x4's. And knowing what they do, MOST of them dont work and drive from their house 1-2 miles away, drop theor kids off at school and DRIVE HOME again.
Now most of those 4x4's dont get above 40 mph let alone have ever seen off road The most off road they have seen is, heaven forbid, had to put ONE wheel on the grass verge because I am coming down the road in a transit van and trailer and they think they are driving an Artic not a flipping Range Rover :( :( :(
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Same goes for where my kids go to school. I have had 6 weeks where I havnt been able to walk my kids to schpool because I havnt been able to walk any distance on my knee, and the parking has been terrible :( and most of the parents that drive to the school are house wives that have time to actually heaven forbid WALK to school :(
On the day I only work school hours and before I damaged my knee, if I was working in town I would walk my kids to school - 1 1/2 miles away from me and take my bike. Then cycle to where ever I was working.
Sorry you did get me started ;)
Lea :)

I need a 4 x 4 to pull my trailer :) If one of the horses were ill I would struggle to find transport, and if I want to go hacking anywhere else I need a trailer and a car can't pull it with 2 horses in. I agree, I can mostly get around using our other Mondeo on the roads, but here a 4 x 4 is a must in the winter and for towing :)

IMO most of the 'urban' 4x4 owners have them for status and the fact that they can 'bully' the drivers of the little cars out of their way.  Many a time I've had to 'give way' to a 4x4 driver who's been tailgating me on a single carriage way despite me doing the speed limit.  And at roundabouts they make a point of going in the outside lane to go straight over onto a single lane at the other side (despite the markings clearly stating right only) and then 'barge' you out of the way so they can get past   Its not just 4x4 owners who do this - its owners of any high-end car like BMW and Mercedes :rolleyes:

Having always lived in rural areas, i don't know about city living, and cars etc. i do know that there are many ignorant drivers on the roads, that will cut you up and barge you out at roundabouts etc, and thats not confined to 4x4 or white vans. Sadly some people simply can't drive, or are just arrogant. Some people also have cars/4x4 or whatever, that they simply cannot drive because they are not experienced enough, and with such high powered vehicles around today, they can be a danger on the roads. I am also amazed at the attitude of 'mum' drivers around school times. they park as close as is possible to the school gate, on the pavement (never mind the other children and pushchairs) and 'jockey' for position as if their lives depended on it! if they are not at the wheel of a 4x4 which they obviously can't drive one side of, they have a people carrier. Why they can't park away from the school, or certainly off the yellow zig-zags that are painted on the road for all the childrens protection, and walk the short distance. Some live a distance from school, and it can be difficult to walk, but many live so close by the time they have loaded up the kids, and driven there they would have dropped them off and be on their way home had they walked. Goodness only knows what the fuel polution levels are outside schools at 9am and 3pm ish every day...and the children walk through that.

When it comes to vets /docs/ etc regarding 4x4. There are times when, in a large animal practice a vet is needed to drive up some very narrow lanes which, if snow and ice covered they wouldn't manage, also across fields to a horse or cow down, when in muddy conditions a car would never manage. There are some very inaccessable places for a vet to get too, (the farmers drive can be one lol) which may not be on a daily basis, I would rather he had one on the odd occasions he needed one. I like the thought i can be reached regardless of the road and weather conditions, as do my farming friends. My own GP would find it exceptionally difficult in snow and ice covered roads to get out from where he lives to his town practice, a practice that also covers deep lying rural areas, so it is reassuring he has a vehicle to manage this.

I suppose those that drive the big 4x4 in town areas where they are never going to be off road, this is their 'vehicle of choice' to which we are all entitled. Some have them because it is easy to get kids in and out, and they are roomy. I don't really see the difference between them and the big powerful People Carriers,Bmw's and mercs etc. And i wouldn't think the extra road tax will bother them much, but as usual it will hit the ones that need these vehicles the most, and thats where I feel its unfair.

Whoever said about yet more tax on fuel...........please no more.....its taxed high enough as it is!

Personally I don't think people should have to justify their choice of car. I own a 4x4 because I like it, I can afford it, I can handle it and it does an average of 36 m.p.g. :)

I was very proud of my Morris Traveller, which averaged 40 mpg. I don't know why modern engines aren't as efficient.

To right tyby, it is personal choice, and mine does about the same as yours re mpg.

One question comes to mind regarding the electric powered vehicles, first will electric milk floats pay tax? lol........and if cars are powered by electric won't they cost more to run, and the way electricity is produced......dosnt that take the 'enviromentally friendly' bit away from it? ahhhh, damn it all, bring back the horse and cart! The 'end result' can be recycled ;)

Aren't we totally missing the point here though, wasn't road tax supposed to go on improving/maintaining roads
We already pay a fortune on petrol taxes, the bigger the car the more you pay so why has road tax now become an enviromental thing.
I live a mile from the border of 2 counties, ours has great roads, go over the line and you spend your time weaving around avoiding potholes and shaking the car to bits, small cars bounce all over the place

This is a subject that has really got my blood boiling!  On the morning of the budget I heard a local MP (who shall remain nameless) on the radio stating that all 4x4 drivers should be taxed more simply because of the style of car   I was fuming.  I have just bought my first 4x4 last week.  It's not brand new, I don't live on a farm but I do need it.  I live in a semi-rural area (right at the top of a hill) and I was sick to the back teeth of spending my winters sliding down the hill to get to work and bumping various things on my way down (the council refuse to grit along our road) and then arriving home from work and having to leave the car at the bottom and trudge my way up the hill to get home. 

Not only that but since we have had to take on the new council recycling rubbish scheme (which incidentally I do agree with in principle) but the collections are frequent enough and I now have to take my excess rubbish to the tip at least once a week...and believe me in my household a small car doesn't fit in enough!

I don't mind paying more tax on the engine size... I can quite happily accept that. 

Here's an idea (and another bone of contention with me!)  why not tax people on the amount of cars registered to the people who live in the household.  For example there's a house down the road from me and they own 5 cars...3 of which are parked roadside.  Thats one car per family member!  Taxing this way might reduce the amount of cars on the road and encourage people to car-share!

I live on a steep hill, private so no gritting and ........ private, so no decent repairing going on, pot holes everywhere ;) but my hefty diesel Astra gets down it with just as much ease as my Hubbies Landrover in icy conditions, bet you don't take the diff lock off to do it ;)  I really, really, don't think you have a good reason to have a 4 wheel drive there but then that's just my opinion.....except, yes, it's the government's as well :D
Agree with you about car shares and taxing multiple vehicle households, perhaps then Hubby would get rid of that blasted Landie and I would get my view back :)
Can't imagine how infrequently your recycling in collected, ours in fortnightly and I never fill it but then it's down to the householder as well as the council to do their bit and avoid buying products unecessarily packed.  For us that is plastics.  Cardboards are OK, recyclable, tins are OK, squash down and recyclable, bottles, well I try not to drink too much ;) but plastic is not collected as the environmental cost of recycling exceeds the gain in the attempt so I simply avoid buying that type of packaging as much as possible.  Really that should be another thread :)

you know come to think of it it might be all the wine bottles that we aquire during the week! ;-)

Since getting my little four-legged friend life has taken a huge change for the better.  I have got my 4x4 for good reasons (in my book anyway).  We're off (here's the dreaded word!)...caravaning!!!! and me, the OH and my parents (omg!!) are all having a change of lifestyle...we're in the process of buying land together.  My step-dad used to have a farm and fishing lakes years ago and we all fancy getting back into the lifestyle.  (you know they should take that Jimmy's farm off the telly...it gives people all sorts of ideas!) 

So with the 4x4 I'm thinking ahead :-D ... a bit of forward planning!  There's also, if I'm being honest, a part of me thats always wanted one...but I would like to stress that having no kids means I won't need it for the school run!!!! ;-)

:)  By eck!  You're taking a chance running caravans past me :p :D

The end result was being complained about in our local parish mag a couple of months ago - honestly, can you believe someone actually wrote in and whinged about horse muck on the road?! I remember when folk used to run out and sweep it up for their roses!!

Those that moan about horse muck on the road are the sort that move to the country then moan about being woken by cows coming in for milking at 5am! And yes, I well remember the 'rag and bone' man, and the coal man, and my nan waiting to see if the horse would deposit near her gate....out she'd go with a bucket and shovel lol.

If you can get your Astra up and down a slippy, icy, hill then you are lucky Isobel, Iv had two, a hatchback and an estate, both diesel, and they wouldn't touch it. My dear old chevette hatchback was damned good though. Would go backwards, if not forwards most places. Not all were as good tho. Funny that.

I fail to see why there is so much hype for 4x4 anyway, (except for isabel and her loss of outside kitchen vision ;) ) I mean, at the end of the day we drive the vehicle we like and feel safe in, that best suits our lifestyle, to the best that we can afford. Why should anyone have to justify their vehicle of choice? So long as it IS taxed, insured and if required, MOTed, then what is the problem? And while we still have freedom of choice in this country why is there so much hype against one type of vehicle, when there are more high powered, and thirsty vehicles on the road? Not all 4x4's are huge engined huge bodied tanks. Some are quite petite. :)

I must admit, I thought road tax was to pay for our roads. if 75% of the population that drive turned to electric only vehicles to avoid road tax, what would happen then?

Calmstorm...I'm with you! And btw I still collect the horse muck for the roses!!  And the bonus now is I can fit more in my 4x4 when I go to pick it up! :-D

We have a sweeping drive and my Mondeo can't go up it at all, neither could my husbands Omega - we had to abandon both at the bottom - so we got a 4 x 4 - diesel and its FAB :D

Well said  :) :) :) 

I'm sorry you doubt the reliability of my Astra in these conditions, you may be right about luck but I rather think good driving may be playing a part ;)
The reason why the Government has a downer on 4 X 4 is because for the most part they are more environmentally unfriendly than the average vehicle although some manufacturers are now using car parts and making them much lighter.  Mind you to my little unmechanical mind that would seem to make them less usefull in terms of road gripping, higher centre of gravity etc but considering few of these vehicles are ever likely to be used off road I suppose it doesn't matter in those terms :rolleyes:.  The higher centre of gravity brings us to the other downer for those that drive them, the safety.  Now that would be up to them if we were not all picking up the tab via the poor old, heavily demanded upon NHS plus the rest of us are more likely to be seriously injured or killed if involved in an accident with one, one study showed pedestrians had a nearly double likelyhood of dying.  So you see the Government didn't just pluck something out of the air and say aha I'll tax them on that and these are the reasons why so many people are supportive of the move.

I'm an advanced driver isobel, been driving 30 yrs (gulp is it really that long....sobbbbbbb )and owned and driven many different types of vehicles country wide. I'm commenting on my Astras, not yours. if you can get yours up, good luck to you. ;) At least you have OH landy if you get stuck.... My Chevette would go anywhere one way or another, but i do know others that didn't. Rear-wheel and front wheel drive will make a big difference, as will the type of tyres fitted, as well as the capabilities of the driver. Some cars will not perform in snow and ice, simple fact. The many cars left at the bottom of hills etc in snowy icy conditions will sort of bear me out anyway..........unless all those drivers are classed as not being as capable as yourself? :)

I thought vehicle tax was payable to maintain the roads in this country, so I can't understand where the enviromental thing comes in here, nor their poor rating in RTAs. Size and weight of vehicle I can understand, but fuel emission? Thats a different thing entirely. There are many other vehicles on the road today that would cause damage to pedestrians simply by way of their age, and not having the shapes etc that new cars have to give more protection in an accident. The 4x4 is not the only powerful vehicle on the road, so why a group of vehicles have to be picked out against the other groups of vehicles on the road I don't know :( I would say a Suzuki is smaller and less powerful in weight and engine cc than a top of the range Range Rover, like comparing a mini to a jag, so to my mind lumping them altogether is done for publicity rather than any justifiable reason.

Looking on the DVLA site the taxation class it is put into emissions as found on the vehicles reg document, rather than 4x4 being picked out. an interesting thing there is that they are putting up road tax for motorbikes, but not giving a real reaon for it. Just that its felt necessary. Powers that be......:)

And, regardless of wether these 4x4 vehicles will ever go off-road, or drive through snow, or be anything than a useful family car, or a 'sporty' type car, if they are the vehicle of choice, then that is the choice of the owner. if someone wants a Jag, or a mini, thats their choice, who are we to critise?

I would like to know how electric cars can be more enviromentaly friendly when they use electricity? That has to be produced.....and more so if say 75% of the population drove them to avoid road tax. Imagine the extra strain when all the cars are plugged in to charge overnight! They would cost a small fortune to run, far more than buying petrol or diesel, with the present cost of electricity, never mind the regular huge increases. At a time when the enviromentalists are trying to promote wind farms to take the load off the electrical producers.