I have seen quite a few Schipperke breeders registered on this site. I'm not sure how many of them participate on the forum, but I have a question. I know a few Schipp owners in my country and they are adorable little devils ;) ..... they impressed me with their endless energy and loyalty for their owners. They are perfect Agility dogs and jogging partners. I'm not sure how popular they are in UK, but i was checking some Crufts photos and I realized that many of them are still docked. It is very rare that you see tailless Schipps over here (only the older ones) and I wasn't sure whether all the puppies there are docked, or is it possible to ask the breeder to leave one puppy undocked? What do the judges prefer?
And one more thing...... FCI only recognizes black Schipperkes and i've seen cream and brown ones in UK as well. Where did those colors come from? Did they mix some other breeds, because originally Schipperkes were only black.......

Thanks!

Can't answer most of your questions but it looks very likely that tail docking will be illegal here from October other than for working dogs, and that docked dogs born after that date cannot be shown.

I think that the creams have been in them forever just not favoured at that time so you don't see many, even in this country, I've only ever seen one myself.

I used to own a blue one! Most are docked but I think many breeders here in the UK are no longer docking. I much prefer them with a tail they look far more balanced in my opinion.
Becky

The UK standard says "usually black but other whole colours permissible". Creams (which would be called wheaten in Buhunds) have certainly been around for a long time. I assumed that, as in Buhunds, black was the recessive colour and that (opposite to Buhunds), the blacks were the more popular colour. I did see an undocked black in training as a hearing dog quite a few years ago - looked like a short legged Buhund with lovely tight centrally curled tail.

My understanding of colour genetics (which is limited) is that the gene for red/yellow/white masks blakc which is why blacks can be born from yellow (red/white) parents.
Becky

Thanks for all the info! I have to say that I love the ones with tails a bit better..... it's so cute the was it curls on their back. I have no idea why they started docking them in the first place. The tail is curled up and kind of hidden, so i can't imagine being injured in any way.
I'd love to see other colors as well. I have only met blacks so far, so it would be interesting to see others as well .

my understanding (& interest, to be honest) is also very limited, but I know that blacks can produce wheaten (if they carry wheaten) but wheatens can't produce black - in Buhunds, doesn't mean it's the same in schips. Anyone know how it works in Pugs, which have a similar combination?

A friend of mine (Uk) breeds schips and doesn't dock them.  I think they look lovely with a tail.

There are three of us within the UK schipperke breeders who DON'T dock so it's not difficult to find undocked schipperkes. I personally have shown them for almost 10 yrs with full tails and have not done too badly even at champ level althought there has never been a tailed UK schippy champion as yet.  The average yearly pups produced in the UK the last few yrs has been 70 pups registered with the Kennel club which has dropped from about 125 - 150 so few people appreciate the dogs for the joy that they are to live with, althought the better owners who learn and love the breed for what it is tend to have more than one at home lol.

It is believed schips have never been crossed with other breeds to produce the colour genetics that we see today, which is very few compared to the last century as there was a great movement towards removing colours other than black from the breeding stock during the early 1900's.  Blues are not desirable at all as they die young with many not making it out of the nest and those that do tend to lose coat once they reach adulthood, some have been seen with no coat from the shoulders back so most breeders now try to avoid blue's if at all possible, this can be difficult as both blacks and creams, golds, reds etc have all been known to produce blue puppies so they do pop up every once in a while.  Like birds, which was a hobby of mine for over 20 yrs these colours can and do occur naturally take a look at the 'normal green' budgie of the wild then compare that to the many colour mutations that have developed in captivity without crossing them with anything other than their own breed.

If you take a look at the schippy breeders pages on here you will see photo's of both tailed and docked dogs in the same homes including the first tailed schipperke to win a class at Crufts who happend to also be a red so some judges will judge them for their conformation whilst others will not even accept any colour other than black and docked just depends on your judge.  Only blacks produce blacks in schips as it's the dominate colour whilst the others are recessive requiring two copies of the gene to produce the colour and as far as I know in pugs, a breed I'm researching at present it's like the Buhunds Fawn is  dominant (sex linked we used to call it in birds) so only needs 1 copy of the gene whilst other colours are again recessive and require the two copies.

Thank you a lot Schip, that was very informative! I'm honored to meet such dedicated breeder that has spent so much time and energy researching the breed ;).
I'm quite happy actually, that Schipperkes are not such a popular breed (I know, some people might find that strange). Being a Chihuahua owner I know what popularity means!! Nothing good comes out of it and you find all kinds of people breeding all kinds of dogs merely for the money. Prices become ridiculous and breeding stock that is used is anything but perfect. I am hoping that Schipps will never become really popular and will be reserved to those who know and appreciate the breed with all of it's good and bad trades..... as my friend said (also a Schipperke owner) :" shipperkes are special dogs for special people!"

I think when buying this lovely breed it's really important to find a good breeder and meet their dogs that should have really good temperaments. It's true that they will almost always be a bit reserved with strangers (which is normal for the breed), but unfortunately I have met a few very aggressive Schipperkes, so it's really important to know where you're buying and how the puppies were socialized from a very early age.

Thanks again for all the help!

Similarly to the variety of budgie colours, consider the pet Syrian hamster, all of which are reputed to be descended from a single female and her 12 young found in 1930. Most died or escaped shortly afterwards, and the remaining three were bred together. With only the very occasional input of 'wild' captives, all modern Syrian hamsters, with the huge variety of coats and colours, are descended from those first three.

Very true JG. There have been wild caught ones since, I personally saw one in the 1980's, but as far as I know none of them were ever bred from and so yes it is true that all are descended from just the 3 survivors. Amazing isn't it. Not just all the dfferent colours, but the different coats as well. :)

Oh there's one more question I have .... there's an unofficial categorizing of Schips. Smaller ones 3-5kg and bigger ones 5-8kg. I believe that US lines produce slightly bigger dogs with fuller coats, while Belgians prefer smaller dogs with smoother coat. My friend had one litter and she bought her bitch in Italy. She is a small girl and she had a lot of trouble finding the right male that wasn't too big for her. She found one in Holland and this is one of her puppies (I took those photos last week ;) )
I was wondering what is the average weigh in UK? Do you prefer the "smaller version" or the slightly stockier "bigger version" with fuller coat?
FCI classifies Schipps into Group 1 (sheep and cattle dogs), Section 1 Sheepdog (without working trial). How is it classified under KC?

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Sorry, Schip. Fawn is NOT dominant in Buhunds - as I said before 2 blacks can produce a wheaten (fawn), but 2 wheatens cannot produce a black.

The KC classifies them in the Utility group - basically 'dogs with no specific purpose remaining'.

You can find the breed standard here.

It also confirms what I thought that some are born without tails, which is probably whey theyr were traditionally docked (as the Pem corgi) to achieve uniformity.

As I have a curly tailed breed I like tha natural tailed look, and we here beleive them to be a Spitz breed.

Oh I see.... I was wondering what Utility group was about. ;)

On the size front here we only have the one size standard as opposed to the FCI dual one, with UK schips being shown in the 5-8 kg class when shown on the Continent as our standard is no larger than 7.3kgs and 11 - 13 inches to the withers.  In reality they are larger here than most in the USA and continental Europe and stockier than yours with more bone like the American bloodlines, which have had a big influence on type over here recently.  We really do need to look to bring the size's back down again as you rarely see a nice neat small schip of say 10 yrs ago these days.

For me personally I prefer a decent boned dog but with correct pear shape not the blocky American shape, I do like the American coat but it is definitely going over the top with a loss of Demarcations around the ruff/Cape and even an inclination towards a raised coat over the body. My friend in the US who is part owner of Dakota is looking to have one of his progeny to bring shape and reduce coat back into her dogs and a better jaw as they are now producing a lot of undershot jaws to give the level bite and blocker muzzle they are looking for, hence I won't be using US lines on my dogs after Dakota as I don't have a mouth problem and don't want to introduce one just for extra bone.

I like a good pear shape nice fine hindquarters with a good ruff/cape but a smooth body coat which is what we're trying to breed for within our breedings.  Our next mating is putting a Welhaven son to a family 1 bitch line which has more of the American bone with a decent coat for demarcations.  This years Crufts BOB winner and 04 same dog is of our breeding from my American X family 1 male Dakota and a more European style bitch and I have to say I adore his shape as it is very classic and what we are striving for except maybe a little too much leg and possibly a tad too large for us - always find fault don't we lol?

As a Tailed breeder and exhibitor I have yet to have a stump tailed pup and have found the best highset tails have come from Dakota and his progeny(American mix) with the Welhaven boy giving us a highset low carriaged tail which comes up mostly on the move and is more to a Sycle (sp?) curl, correct for FCI standards but so for UK, so I am hoping by using this Welhaven male on the daughter of the bitch who gave us the low carriage tail who has more European bloodlines in her background that we improve on the tail carriage and the tightness of the tail as well as shape.

Ok I'll shut up now I really do hate schipperkes don't I lol?

Thank you again for this great presentation of the breed! ;) I know I was a bit annoying with all my questions , but I have to say Schipperkes are one of my favorite breeds and I'm always so glad when I learn something new!!