Hi
I wondered what everyones thoughts were on this:
A friend of ours has a 3 year old grand daughter who is really horrible to her dogs, she nips and pinches them and twists their ears and has been known to even bite them. The little girl has been chastised and even smacked to stop her to no avail.

The other day she was up to her usual tricks and the dog had obviously had enough and nipped her (not seriously). When the son came to pick the little girl up he saw his mum was upset. When she told him what had happened the son said his mother should have the dog put down.

I think that a dog is a dog and can only take so much and snapping was her way of warning the little girl she had had enough. If the dog had meant to hurt the girl it could have if it had wanted to but it was just a snap to warn. Dont get me wrong if a dog is genuinly vicious it should be distroyed but this dog is not it is as gentle as a lamb.
The dogs sleep in kennels at night but are in the house during the day and I think my friend ought to kennel all her dogs when this little girl is around for their safety as well as her own.

When the little girl learns to respect the dogs then introduce them to her.

What would you do in this situation?

I hope this child is not be left unsupervised with the dogs she may in fact be jealous of the dogs and thats why she is unkind to them .you are right I would put the dogs out if the child only visits occasionally,the dog sounds like she has behaved as she would with a puppy putting her in her place and quite rightly so you can only stand so much after all,youd be amazed how many people actually give up much loved dogs in favour of their grandchildren who only visit sometimes,its mind boggling.

Longdog,

I do not feel the dog is to blame.

As most of you know I have a Border collie and a Labrador and a child that will be 3 in November at times my Daughter has been a total pain with regards to the dogs.
One thing she found funny was to pull there tails but the way I stopped her was everytime she pulled a tail I pulled her hair sounds cruel but it stopped her from doing it.

I do feel you need to supervise young children and even older children around dogs.
But what I would hate to happen is for people to start thinking you can't keep dogs and children together you can you just need to teach the dog to respect the child and the child to respect the dog etc.

Karen

I did the same to my daughter, when she tried to take out her temper on our Belgian Shepherd who was a year younger than she. she was only 2 at the time, but understood the lesson. this is a sencitive breed, and I was not prepared to take any risks with justified retaliation. this same bitch did not enjoy children enmasse, and I always let her go upstairs away from them, and she knew to ask me when she had had enough of kids company.

My current breed is much more forgiving, but capable of telling off if really pushed, usually if a child is old enough to know better. I have had them cheerfully put up with toddlers pulling themselves up using them for support, and heavy handed petting, but once the kids are about 3 they look peeved if they are poked and prodded. My eldest bitch once snapped the air to warn a child that had for weeks thrown herself at her, this was a hot day. I had repeatedly asked the Mother to ask the child for a little restraint. Mother was a little miffed, but the child therafter treated her with respect, and got a cuddle for her pains.

It saddens me that dogs often pay the price for parents irresponsibility in not teaching theri children, and not supervising them near dogs.

I would say that it served the grand daughter right. The dog was only doing what a bitch would do to a pup if it was mis-behaving. I certainly wouldn't consider having the dog put to sleep for it, especially as it is not known for that dog to be aggressive.

Karen I agree I do think children need supervising around dogs.
I think that children and dogs can be good for each other but children have to learn to respect the animals.
A dog cant say to the child " hey come on stop that it hurts" so it snaps to warn. The dog has put up with the child doing these things to it for a long while and it had had enough. If the dog was nasty it would have really gone for the child but this to me was just a warning. The child IMHO should be supervised continuaouly around any animals, after all next time it may be a strange dog who is not so gentle.

I would NO WAY have a dog destroyed under these circumstances

In these circumstances I think the child's parents (father anyway) need educating so they are capable of teaching their child manners when around dogs.

Do not let the child near dogs untill she learns to behave around them - for their protection as much if not more than her own.

Christine

I agree, I thinkthe father is silly to let his little girl loose on the dogs and expect them to putup with pinching etc

Infact the bite inhibition just goes to show what a nice dog it is and how restrianed it is.

Sounds as if maybe the little girl may be a bit fed up and bored? Is she capable of supervised help with the dogs, so that she does things for them and gets to like them?

You could show your friend all these replies, hope you do!!!

hi, i agree with what the others have said it was not the dogs fault, they can only take so much and cannot speak so they nip. I have aretriever pup and aking charles and also look after my just four yr old niece full time in the week, from when we were going to choose the pup we involved her as much as poss and if ever she started to get a little rough we would sit her down and explain how the pup could not tell her that he did not like what she was doing and if she carried on he may growl or snap, (he never has). I also do the same if she pulls his tail i gently pull her hair and tell her that if it hurts her then it hurts the pup. Loui now sits by the door waiting for my niece to arrive. lynne

I totally agree with all replies so far. Can I ask is the child as horrible to other children as she is the dog? If she hurt another child in this way and the child smacked her back, I bet the father would accept this and say she shouldn't have done it in the first place. I bet he wouldn't say, "Oh that child needs putting down!" If he can't teach his daughter respect for animals, he should be ashamed of himself!

I have an older bitch, who views our children as her puppies! Not to the full 'problem' extent, but she loves them dearly, and they her. Now, no matter how ell you supervise children and dogs, things can happen in a flash, and my one little boy would 'flop' onto her, which she didn't like as I'm sure it hurt, she was more than happy to lie with him on her-or she would curl around him. He would only do thid hard flop occasionally, I warned him, she warned him. One day, she nipped him, as she would her puppy, no marks at all. Well, my son learned from that, and it did him no harm at all. My younger son was a bit of a 'poker', and she sorted him out too! I think that family dogs can give good lessons to kids, in these circumstances they are not 'savaging', just teaching a lesson. I would rather my own dog did this, rather than a strange dog that does not have the same family ties! And I would have used it as a lesson for the child not to tease the dog again, and not given her sympathy.
Of course, the problem here is the fact that 'family' is involved, and what would the grandma do if she was refused contact with the child because of the dog? It's a hard one, all I could suggest is making sure the dog is in the kennel when the child visits (which I don't agree with, but if it makes life eaiser.....)and ensuring the child has no access to get at the dog in the kennel. Tricky. I wouldn't want the dog PTS, after all if it had wanted to bite her it would have done damage. Fingers crossed all goes well.

Hi

How sad. But probably a fairly typical parents view. I fully support everyting that has already been said. It is the child and the father that need the education, not punishment for the poor dog.

My friend was looking after my little boy, Josh - 7, one day and her cocker bitch bit Josh on the hand. My friend was distraught when I arrrived to pick Josh up. She asked did I want Molly to be put to sleep. "NO WAY" was my response. We did not know what Josh had done - we think he had probably hugged her to tightly and she didn't like it and reacted in the only way she could. Sadly, there was a repeat incident without any provocation that they witnessed,to another family dog and she did have to be PTS.

In your friends case they have witnessed the provocation and so there is no case for destroying a perfectly healthy and happy dog. I'm sure the family will calm down once the initial shock has subsided.

I'm with everyone else on this..in fact I would put the little brat (oops, my natural affinity with children coming out again!):D in the kennel & have the dogs indoors!

Sam, I frequently feel that way about my daughter and that's without the dog being a problem!:)
I can't understand why people haven't learnt over the years. Yet another story in the news just yesterday of a 7year old going into a shed to 'befriend' a friend's Akita and was bitten in the face. Who on earth let him wander in there? And to add to the hysteria,a couple had their cat killed by a greyhound and were quoted in the local press saying that the dog needed to be found because it could be a child next.Let's just put that greyhound down now, shall we?

Agree-and while we are putting that greyhound down for killing a cat(natural instinct) lets kill ALL greyhounds, 'just incase' it bites a cat. Then, of course, lets kill ALL dogs 'just incase' they could bite a child!!
These people make my blood boil! It seems today that parents simply don't want to take responsibility for their kids. Years ago it used to be, if a kid got bitten the question was asked by all parties 'what did the kid do?' Now, its just accepted that a child can do what the hell they like to animals, but when the animal bites back it's OH dear, lets kill the animal, its a danger to society. I think I read somewhere that a child who is needlessly cruel and harms animals can go on to be a violent person when older. Perhaps, when kids are aggressivley cruel to animals they should be PTS too? Just in case............

I love kids, I certainly love my own, and it really annoys me when parents/carers etc do not cater for the animals in our world, and teach the children how to look after them. Its the best way for them to naturally learn how to feel for other beings emotions, the joy of watching something grow, form attachments, and even understand and learn how to deal with grief when this beloved animal dies. All we seem to have in our 'ultra clean, bug free' home enviroments' are children learning to believe that animals are dirty, disease ridden, worm laden things that have no place in our society. This is such a shame.

I feel really sorry for your friend, Longdog. What an awful thing for a son to do to his mother.

I echo all the comments made already, but if she does decide to have the dog put down,, ask her to let me do it. I wouldn't bury an old sack and keep the dog.......honest.

The parents really have a problem. Like most of our society, it looks like they see their child as an angel who can do no wrong. And like most in the same boat they are only storing up trouble for later.

If the father continues to blame the dog, the child will learn that her actions where OK.
And when she meets a large breed dog, that isn't as patient?
Putting a dog down in such circumstances would be tragic.
Allowing ones own child to be injured perhaps more so.

The other concern, of course, is that the child will continue to bully dogs, other animals and then other children.

We have the benefit of being able to consider this without the pressures of 'family', of course.
From where I'm standing, the dog showed more love ( of the REAL kind), than the father did. At least the dog is trying to help the child.

I don't pray often, but I do pray that this dog is not punished for the childs actions.

Kennel the child!!

Seriously, if she knows there's a problem then perhaps they should be kennelled when the grand-daughter is there - to protect THEM not her. I believe the dog was completely within it's right to defend itself and the CHILD was the one who was wrong. If they treated another person that way there would be consequences, so why show any less respect to the dog.

Certainly putting the dog down is not the answer. How about putting the child down for 'biting the dog' which is what the dog felt was happening to it?

Wendy

Ok, Im gonna vent a little here.....please excuse me.
I have to admit, these ignorant people who have no respect or understanding of dogs really annoy me.
I have 2 dogs and a 2 year old son and I feel its important for children to know the correct way to interact with animals....this is mine as a parents duty to teach my son this.
However if either of my dogs was nasty in any way I would consider finding him a more suitable home, without children.
I agree totally with the rest of the people who posted on here. The child and Parent are in the wrong NOT the dog, but it all boils down to that same old thing....ignorance.
I own a 4 Yr old rescue Staffordshire Bull Terrier and a 9 week old English Bull Terrier but every day while out with my dogs Im faced with disaproving looks, terrified owners who think my dogs will attack thiers and stupid remarks like "I'd never keep a Pitt Bull around children!"
I always inform people that my dogs are friendly, well socialised and absolutly fantastic with my 2 year old but people tend to ignore that and continue to belive Im harbering some Dangerus dogs!
It drives me crazy. Maybe if people took the time to understand Animals a little better and find out about breeds before they judge the world would be a much safer place.
Then again I guess thats like asking the sky to turn green for a day....it'll never happen!

Hi Lucy,

My brother owns a Staffie and he also has had the same kind of problems when he is out with her people will cross the road in case they are attacked by his Staff which is sad as she is so friendly and loving.
In fact she is the one dog in the family who I trust the most with kids she loves them to bits.

The local dog warden visted my brother one day as some know it all had complained he had a fighting dog well the warden was licked to death.

Karen

Hiya Karen
Nice to know its not just me who suffers this predudice.
Its just so frustraiting when u know how wonderfull your dog is but people chose to ignore that and only see the stereotype.
My Staffie is wonderfull with my son. When he was first born I have to say (as all mothers are) I was a little wary but Bodie acted like a frantic old lady. He would sleep under my sons bed when he had a nap then rush from his room to the lounge back and forth when my son cried.
Now they truly are inseprable and if I take my son out he cries for the dog and the dog cries becuase he wants to come along!
Hence the reason for getting Bessie. I thought if Bodie maybe had a companion he would settle a bit if we had to go shopping.....so far so good.
But even though shes a pup Im now seeing the tale tale signs of people who truly belive shes a dangerus animal!
Why cant people realise, its not the breed thats dangerus its the owners that teach them these traits and bring the worse out in a breed.
Untill only responsable people are allowed to own a dog (instead of just Anyone) the problem will never get any better.

Like everyone in rescue this is a story we hear all the time. This week where I live a dog was left tied up outside a kennels with a note attached ... the note was a plea for help. The dog (neutered x collie) had snapped at a child in the home and the owner could no longer trust him and was desparate to move the dog on .. so they tied him up with the note outside kennels. No explanation of why the dog snapped, no fuller history of the dogs temperament ... so what should a responsible rescue do.

We are inundated with dogs of unblemished temperaments ... do we take the chance that this was a one off. Do we decide to let the dog go ... and have it returned for biting?

Like everyone above, I am appalled by the position this child has left the dog in. I am appalled that anyone is really asking if it is right to put the dog to sleep. My family dog as a child, hated young children, and attacked my neice when she crawled under the table to poke him. Did we have him put to sleep ... no way .. they were kept apart at all times after that. If this woman is a responsible owner that is what she will do. If the son still complains and I know of some cases where family refuse to visit family because of the dogs .. (and this includes my own sister visiting me because my rescue staffie x bred once growled when her child screamed in his ear!!!) ... then I am tempted to say she should visit them instead!