our bitch is on day 10 of her season and discharge has changed colour, she seems ready?!!  Contacted stud who brought dog to us.  At first he was keen but she barked at him thought maybe a little early, now though she is well 'like a bitch on heat' but he's having a go but not for long enough to do anything or tie.  Is this normal? Owner has left him with us for a couple of days as there is a distance issue.

How experienced is the male?

he has fathered 6 litters

she is absolutely desperate but he is laid happy in her basket now, should i seperate him for a while and reintroduce him later?

Are you experienced at handling stud dogs?

no it's my first time, hence needing advice

Hi,
We tried with Ellie and a friends dog for a couple of days. Although he was experienced he was not quite strong enough and all Ellie wanted to do was play. Ellie was on days 10/11. It was just not happening.  We then decided to use a stud dog and was informed by the breader that Ellie mabey was not quite ready.  We waited until day 13 and then 15. As you may have read in my post we are not really sure if she is pregnant or not, but leaving her that bit longer worked as she accepted the stud dog without much of a problem.
Hope this helps.
Sharon

we are not really sure if she is pregnant or not

Is that by your friend's dog who you tried first?

No by Stud dog
Sharon

English springer spaniel screening consists of eye testing, fucosidosis testing by dna & hip scoring.  Have they both been screened?

how would this affect their ability to mate?

I'm happy to help with responsible breeding but would choose not to help with producing puppies from an irresponsible mating. :)

for the record they have both been screened for all of the necessary things, my bitch 2 months ago before this last season and him as he is a stud that was recommended to me.  It does annoy me that people on this site are so judgmental, I am just asking for advice as I have never experienced a mating before, not a lecture in breeding.

As I said, I'm happy to help with responsible breeding but would choose not to help with producing puppies from an irresponsible mating.  :rolleyes:
Bye.

well thankyou for your help, how did you come to judge me so badly?

Clair you asked \how would this affect their ability to mate? when asked if they have been screened, which for an english springer spaniel  consists of eye testing, fucosidosis testing by dna & hip scoring.

It wont affect their ability to mate - but as sure as hell is hot, it makes an enormous difference to their ability to produce healthy puppies.   Such tests are carried out by responsible, caring breeders.

Margot

Both the bitch and dog in this instance have had the relevent screening, my point was that people are very quick to assume irresponsible breeding.  I have a healthy, beautiful bitch and he is a lovely temperament beautiful stud, of which i have seen some of the puppies he has sired to equally responsible breeders.  Everyone has a first litter and having watched this site regularly and thought of it as a fantastic, up to date advice centre, I was hoping for some help now.

No Clair, we gave you advice last May, when you admitted that you knew nothing about breeding when you bought your dogs.

We were just asking if you had taken on board the points that were made about the hip scoring, etc - what were their scores btw? - and you say you have.

Margot

To be honest if he is an expereinced stud then his owner will know how he works.  Whether he is a wait until the optimum time kind of male, or one who likes to practice a bit first before getting serious, one that likes his bitches held, resents human intrusion etc etc.

This is why it seems surprising that a stud owner would leave his dog in novice hands, where he is at serious risk of being damaged should the bitch panic and you are not experienced enough to know what to do.

people are very quick to assume irresponsible breeding

Not at all.  That's why I asked! :) 
If they were health checked, you would proudly post the results rather than become so defensive.

And if he was owned by a reputable breeder, there is no way that they would have left their precious dog with a novice.

And if he was owned by a reputable breeder, there is no way that they would have left their precious dog with a novice

Hi

This is what I thought to. You could seriously damage a male if you dont know what you are doing. Surely the bitch stays with the stud dog or you go back for a repeat mating a couple of days later.

Wendy

I have last year finally managed two stud dogs one I who jointly own and the other I have bred, and also had a stud dog to stay, but this was only after I had attended matings over the last 11 years and safely overseen the birth of several litters and their owners felt I was competent to manage them at stud.

I have had stud dog owners visit me with their males out of kindness as I have no transport of my own, but their owners were their to manage their boys, whose reactions they could judge.

Have to say that the thought of leaving any of my boys with no-one but a novice breeder in charge - well, just doesn't bear thinking about

I rather think Clair bought in her own stud dog last May, if you look back at posts.

Contacted stud who brought dog to us

:rolleyes:

I think so to, I have never ever heard of someone reputable dropping off a stud with a novice.

Besides, what evidence would the stud owner have that their dog actually did the deed, and he's not having the results of a misalliance blamed on him, if they don't witness it?

Yes, JG, and the KC requires that the stud dog owner signs the registration document to confirm the mating has taken place not the bitch owner.

Have to say that the thought of leaving any of my boys with no-one but a novice breeder in charge - well, just doesn't bear thinking about

Ditto I find it incredible. Anything could happen.

I had a bitch that had tied and them deicided she was having none of it.. they were on the table being mated but boy that was the worst 10 mins of my doggy life. ME and one very experienced person was there. 

Yup my well built girl who weights in at 47 pounds hates the tie and within about 10 seconds tries to buck and twist and you have to hold on for dear life.

so your bitch wasnt pregnant last may , like you thought , to your own stud dog ?

no it turned out to be a phantom probably due to him being to young when she came into season.  We then lost him due to abdominal problems (terrible chewer), and have not since had another dog, decided to go down the stud and health check, proper routes as she is nearing 5 and probably getting too old especialy for first litter.  Have learnt from the various advice/lectures i received last may. We are going to give this season a proper chance and if unsuccesful,  admit defeat and have her spayed.

Just out of interest :) what test did you do and what were the results?

If they have had the correct health tests why are you unable to state them on here?  I'm not getting at you but your first post when asked seemed rather offensive and as if you may have had them checked over by a vet but not the correct medical tests needed.

I would never ever leave my stud dog with someone, not even someone knowledgable and it's more usual for the owner of the bitch to go to the stud not the other way around.  I'm sorry but I find it strange that they would leave him with someone who has not done this kind of thing before.

Anyway, that's by the by as I presume the health test answer won't be posted, but I would advise that you definitely keep them apart.  They should only be together when you try to mate them.

If they've had all the correct health tests then I wish you all the best.

Isabel, cynic that I may be...I don't think you'll ever get an answer to that one!!!:rolleyes:

:)

had relevent screening  Well please expand what screening have they had ?

Just to add I would not leave my stud dog with anyone else to use him and I certainly would not give a stud service receipt as I would be very worried about another dog getting there first and my boys good health scores being discredited because of this. 

Just to expand a little my boy has good hip scores and I would expect, when mated to a bitch with equally good scores, the progeny would have reasonable hip scores.  Use another dog, not tested or with bad hip scores, my dogs name could appear on the pedigree of a litter with bad hip scores.  My dogs reputation would be worth diddly squat. (Hip scoring relevant to my breed, I don't know about your breeds required health tests).

I would be looking for another stud if I were you who owner will assist in the mating.

*

When my bitch was mated last summer I drove 3.5 hours each way to the stud dog and did this 3 times.......  I certainly would not leave a dog nor bitch with someone who is not experienced, as people have already said, anything can happen.  I have sat through 15 or so matings but still would not feel confident to conduct a mating by myself and will travel however far to a stud dog watch and learn from the more experienced, I certainly wouldnt risk my bitch or a dog and 'have a go myself'.  You should have asked for advice 'before' your bitch came into season. 

Cant the stud dog owner help you?

I am sorry to be stupid, but what do you mean when you say anything can happen, dogs slip their leads, escape and people are negligent all the time resulting in unwanted litters nothing apart from the obvious litter goes wrong, what is so terrible that can happen when two animals are doing pretty much what they are designed for (apart from eating and pooing of course)

By 'anything can happen', the bitch or dog can seriously injure one another, either intentionally if an inexperienced handler misreads the situation, or unintentionally during mating if dog or (more likely) bitch panics and struggles. The male's penile bone can be fractured or the bitch suffer tearing or prolapse.

he has a bone in his penis?? You have to admit a large number of dogs mate without any interference at all and the results are the same. Surely me standing by or the stud owner will ony cause the dog to  become aggitated and not relaxed and we all know how painful that can be??!! What ever happened to  nature taking its course, dogs have evolved over thousands of years and are pretty much perfect at what they do, is it not interference, line breeding etc... that is causing them to become unable to do what should come so naturally.

Trying to put this delicately, even human males can break their penis if not careful enough with positions etc.

My point exactly, lots of things can happen, don't hear of many men breaking their manhood though you have to admit and without being too crude, we don't need any help from third partys in that area either. The example given by another member where he walked to the back garden and bitch ran to him, only the shock of someone coming caused her to either panic or get excited, if left alone in an enclosed area, how can they come to any harm?

if left alone in an enclosed area, how can they come to any harm?

Read ALL of my message -and I'm a she not a he, that's why my posts are signed with Marianne! :rolleyes: I ALSO went on to explain about my bitch who WILL try to get away the moment she is tied. She will happily mate without interference, but the moment they tie we have to be able to grab her immediately as the very act of tying makes her panic and try to run and she is far from the only bitch to work like that.

didn't mean to offend you with the he/she thing, sorry:rolleyes:  I understand you have a valid point and experience but is it not also possibel you bitch remembers the pain of running to you and in further matings this is concerning her when the tie happens?

>if left alone in an enclosed area, how can they come to any harm?

Easily - a maiden bitch can panic at the uncomfortable sensation of the tie, and instinct makes them move away. Of course, in nature, if this happens and the male or female are injured, they're likely to develop an infection and possibly die. With our pet dogs there are certain 'natural' situations best avoided.

In the wild our dogs would be much more instinctual, and also only the alpha ones would ever get to breed and that in an established bonded pair.

We have changed our dogs metallly and physically, they live with human beings and are less socially competent in many cases, and tehn we expect to be able to amte two complete strangers of our choice not theirs.  Is there any wonder that it isn't as natural as one would envisage, as you are finding yoruself????

I am surprised you didn't know the males anatomy and reprodcutive process?  The penile bone facilitates penetraion, and only th4en does the mael become fuly erect, at which point many bitches become uncomfortable, worried, or even panicky, and this and the engrged bulbis Glandis case the pair to be tied.