is it only first places at crufts that qualify them for next year ?

No 1st, 2nd, 3rd in most classes (as per other champ.shows, same rules) but 1st only in GC.

>>as per other champ.shows, same rules

Do you happen to know if it matters at Champ shows whether it is a full set of CC's or just a single that is on offer? I was just wondering but can't seem to find it clarified anywhere.

No as long as a CC is on offer it doesn't matter if it is one or two -but I can't find any printed evidence to back it up I'm afraid. You could always e-mail the KC to get it put in writing from them.

Thanks for that :) I had read the press release where it stated:

(4) If it has won any of the following prizes in a breed class (as defined in Kennel Club Regulations for the Definitions of Classes at Championship Shows) at a Championship Show, including Crufts, where Challenge Certificates were offered for the breed between 7 January 2005 and 6 January 2006.

However I was unsure if they really did mean Challenge Certificates (plural) and if so what happened when only one was on offer.

Well they would have meant plural for last year because the single CC wasnt in then. The 2007 Crufts qualifications have not yet been announced (I think but stand to be corrected). The single CC shows will be just the same for those breeds as if there were the 'normal' 2 on offer , just that there will be 1 CC not 2, entry fees and qualifications and stud book exactly the same. I suspect the Crufts qualifier might be made easier soon.....

>> The 2007 Crufts qualifications have not yet been announced (I think but stand to be corrected).

No, I couldn't find it. Thanks for that :) It is the first year my breed have had CC's so never took much notice of it before.

I suspect the Crufts qualifier might be made easier soon.....

Gods I hope not - it's easy enough as it is

Debs

Depends on the breed -think of popular breeds where you may have 35 in a class. :) In my breed it HAS been very easy indeed, but now we have tickets it has got harder. Say you have a dog that WASN'T shown at Crufts this year, and so only can qualify at the otehr shows with tickets on offer. That gives us shows in between May and September ONLY -the last one being Darlington. 5 months out of 12! 7 months with no qualifying shows! With my bitch hopefully being pregnant she will have no chance whatsoever of qualifying for next year, nor will her potential pups as if they are born in  April, by the time they are 6 months old there will be NO more shows with tickets until Crufts itself.

Goldmali,
we have almost the same in my breed.  I didn't take my dogs to Crufts this year so our first qualifying show will be WELKS and our last one is Midland Counties  - so 6 months with no qualifying shows.  I can understand what you're saying about bitches having litters etc., but sometimes that's the choice you have to make.
I still think it's easy to qualify with a decent dog even in the numerically huge breeds (used to handle in one).  Let's face it - Crufts is supposed to be the very best of dogs so it should mean that average/mediocre dogs would have to be very lucky to qualify (and dare I say shouldn't be there?).

Debs

Check which classes Claire - for Gordons Yearling classes at Crufts are NOT qualifying!  Not sure about Irish though?  At the champ shows Graduate classes are also not qualifiers!  Junior to Post Grad yep that is going to be soo easy!! (NOT) ;)

I beleive that any breed class won in at Crufts qualifies a dog, vbut the first to thrid is in the usual qualifying classes only as in the rest of the champ shows.

well he got a 3rd in the good citizen class so I dont know if that would be qualifying or not

for what everyone else was saying I think it is too easy to qualify for crufts (if you had seen some of the sh#t that were there this year from our breed you would know why I say it) you really cant believe how some people qualify.  I really do think there should be a set amount of dogs in the class for you to qualify, otherwise if there are only 3 in a class (which can happen, even in my breed when there are usually double figures) then the trash dog that gets bunged on the end as 3rd qualifies which wouldnt have if there had been more dogs in the class.

Well they do of course publish qulifying rules each year, but nothing but a 1st in GC has qualified before.

what is GC - excuse my ignorance :rolleyes:

good citizen im guessing :rolleyes:

pants, time to start again, or maybe get that junior warrant - just under a month for 7 points

1st, 2nd & 3rd in Yearling are crufts qualifiers claire.  Good luck with chasing down your points, I still need 9 and only have 7 weeks! 

what breed do you have ?

unfortunately we got our 3rd in the good citizen class so I dont think that counts :(

ah, is this helen with the Irish ?? small world if it is

Yep, one of the same with hyper Solo.  Did u and Alfie go to any shows this weekend and get any more points?  I didn't as I needed a weekend off to prepare the spare room for when Cherri has her pups.  Going to Horsham and then club Ch show.:rolleyes:

thought it was a small world (confused me though cos your surname is no longer martin ? ) and yes solo is certainly hyper ! - doesnt stop him from winning though ! ) I took Mary to a judging seminar thingy at the weekend so no shows, I dont think I learned much either (other than to make a prat of myself) we have the club show this weekend and then a show in kent the following day, the following weekend we have an open show in chippenham then one in essex then the weekend after that the club show in scotland (if I can be bothered) and then the crystal palace show at ardingly, to be fair with the way his back end movement is at the moment I cant see us coming anywhere near our JW, but I will try, and I wont bother going to scotland if I think he doesnt have a chance of getting it.  I will see you this weekend, good luck with Cherri, when is she due ?

I am still using martin for the dog showing world.  Went to ardingly this morning and got 2/3 in Junior and 2/5 in Grad - Silv got her final JW point, judge said it was very close so I will try going under her again in May.  Going to club show on Sat if all is well with Cherri then 2 weeks at Ardingly!  cherri is due between this weekend and next weekend!! Getting panicky now...... 

ive entered that one in two weeks at ardingly, I doubt I will go though I have scotland the day before - if I go !  thats gutting about Ardingly today, im please for Sylvie though, so who was the 3rd one in your class - wasnt you know who was it 

good luck with Cheri, have you had her scanned ?

might see you Saturday, Alf's "straight" jacket arrived today so hopefully it will work on his curly neck

Are you sure it's all three places in Yearling that are qualifiers? I thought that, at Crufts, it was only 1st in yearling that qualified for next year's show (as opposed to the first three places in the usual classes), and (in my breed at least) that was the only time the yearling class was a qualifier - at no other show.

I think yearling is a qualifying class in our breed now :) 

Ah, that explains it. :) I'm not going mad after all! :o :D

Hi JG, it's 1st 2nd and 3rd in Yearling for stud band E breeds only. It will be only 1st that qualifies for breeds in all other bands, and yes the non band E breeds will only be able to qualify from Yearling at Crufts.

Dawn R

Thanks Dawn! :) I thought I'd missed something vital, but I hadn't! :)

sorry JG, I was replying to Claire as I knew she had Irish which do qualify in Spec Yearling classes 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

and I wasnt asking about yearling, I was asking about the good citizen class (helen has got her head in the clouds :rolleyes: - puppies are coming )

I don't think the qualifier was ever supposed to be some seal of quality, it was simply brought in to limit the number of dogs entered for the show in a way that seemed fair, and that it would certainly leave out the poorest quality exhibits in many cases was just a byproduct.

Of course it helped boost the entries at the other qualifying shows too, and made the ability to enter a dog at Crufts seem more important and exclusive.

Did they get placed at Crufts ? - we too had some 'interesting' exhibits - who really were out of place - dogs ungroomed handlers looking like they had turned up for any old open show!  So know what you mean Claire!

no they didnt get placed but then we do have huge classes (31 in undergrad ) so even really nice dogs dont get placed.

I must admit there were some rather scruffy looking people around, I thought everyone made an effort for crufts

Sadly not in Gordons - I know of a lady last year whose dog won Yearling and she still had to qualify again for this year :( (That's what she told me anyway so could be wrong - she has been showing a while too)

It has always been my understanding that, in addition to the usual qualifying places, a first prize in ANY breed class at Crufts, qualifies the dog for the following year. I'm just off to look for documentary evidence, and will post back later.

Dawn R.

you are correct Dawn.

Yes, that is true. The following is taken from a KC press release:

(5) If it has won a First Prize in a breed class at Crufts 2005. Other than Puppy, Junior, Yearling (Stud Book Band E Breeds only), Post Graduate, Limit and Open at Crufts 2005, which does qualify in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Thanks guys, I've just returned from the KC site with exactly that cut/paste.

Dawn R.

Only going by what I was told by this lady - so maybe she is wrong?  Is it because Yearling is Stud Book Band E only and Gordons not Band E!  Oh well?

That bit is abit confusing but it actually means dogs in band E qualify by getting 1st 2nd or 3rd in yearling not that others don't qualify by getting the 1st place  :) HTH

...sorry   can I ask a very basic questions...?

What are qualifying shows and what are points?

qualifying shows are those shows you can qualify for crufts in.  In most breeds you qualify by winning 1st - 3rd at a champ show, although in some breeds its only a 1st and there are some classes which dont count.  You can also qualify by winning best of breed at a premier open show.  The points we are referring to are for the junior warrant, your dog wins points when he wins classes (3 points for a champ show win, 1 point for a open show win) you have to get 25 points by the time your dog is 18 months :)

although in some breeds its only a 1st not actually correct for KC Championships shows

ENTRY IN BREED CLASSES AT CRUFTS 2006, WHERE CHALLENGE
CERTIFICATES ARE OFFERED.

A dog is eligible for entry in breed classes where Challenge Certificates are offered if it has qualified in any of the following ways under the Rules and Regulations of the Kennel Club...............

(4) If it has won any of the following prizes in a breed class (as defined in Kennel Club Regulations for the Definitions of Classes at Championship Shows) at a Championship Show, including Crufts, where Challenge Certificates were offered for the breed between 7 January 2005 and 6 January 2006.

i. First, Second or Third in Minor Puppy Class
ii. First, Second or Third in Puppy Class
iii. First, Second or Third in Junior Class
iv. First, Second or Third in Yearling Class (For Breeds in Stud Book Band E only - see list below)
v. First, Second or Third in Post Graduate Class
vi. First, Second or Third in Limit Class
vii. First, Second or Third in Open Class
viii. First, Second or Third in Veteran Class

STUD BOOK BAND E
Hound Group - Afghan Hound, Whippet
Gundog Group - Irish Setter, Retriever (Flat Coated), Retriever (Golden), Retriever (Labrador), Spaniel (Cocker), Weimaraner.
Terrier Group - Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Utility Group -
Pastoral Group - Bearded Collie, Border Collie, Shetland Sheepdog
Working Group - Boxer, Dobermann, Great Dane, Rottweiler
Toy Group - Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

(5) If it has won a First Prize in a breed class at Crufts 2005. Other than Puppy, Junior, Yearling (Stud Book band E Breeds only), Post Graduate, Limit and Open at Crufts 2004, which does qualify in 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

(6) If it has been awarded a 5-point or higher Green Star at a Show held under the Rules and Regulations of the Irish Kennel Club.

(7) If a Beagle, has won a First Prize at a Hound Show between 7
January 2005 and 6 January 2006 held under the Rules and Regulations of the Masters of Harriers and Beagles Association.

(8) Premier Open Show
For dogs that have been declared best of breed provided there were more than three breed classes (more than five classes for Stud Book Band E breeds) scheduled for the breed between 7 January 2005 and 6 January 2006.

(9) If it has won Best in Show, Reserve Best in Show or Best Puppy in Show at a General or Group Open Show between 7 January
2005 and 6 January 2006.

b. ENTRY IN BREED CLASSES AT CRUFTS 2006 FOR BASSET GRIFFON VENDEEN (GRAND), ALASKAN MALAMUTE, AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD AND BELGIAN SHEPHERD DOG (MALINOIS) AND WHERE CHALLENGE CERTIFICATES ARE NOT OFFERED.

A dog is eligible for entry in breed classes where Challenge Certificates are not offered if it has qualified in any of the following ways under the Rules and Regulations of the Kennel Club.

(1) If it has been declared Best of Sex or Reserve Best of Sex of a
Breed or gained any of the following Prizes in Breed or Variety Classes at a Championship Show, including Crufts between 7 January 2005 and 6 January 2006.

i. First, Second or Third in Minor Puppy Class
ii. First, Second or Third in Puppy Class
iii. First, Second or Third in Junior Class
iv. First, Second or Third in Post Graduate Class
v. First, Second or Third in Limit Class
vi. First, Second or Third in Open Class
vii. First, Second or Third in Veteran Class

(See note 2.)

(2) If it has won a First Prize in a breed class at Crufts 2005. Other than Puppy, Junior, Post Graduate, Limit and Open at Crufts 2005, which does qualify in 1st, 2nd & 3rd.

(3) If it has been awarded a 5-point or higher Green Star at a Show
Held under the Rules and Regulations of the Irish Kennel Club.

(4) Premier Open Show
For dogs that have been declared best of breed provided there were more than three breed classes (more than five classes for Stud Book Band E breeds) scheduled for the breed.

(5) If it has won Best in Show, Reserve Best in Show or Best Puppy in Show at a General or Group Open Show held between 7 January 2005 and 6 January 2006.

thanks moonmaiden, i couldnt be bothered to go into too much detail ;)

Thanks for all that. I will save that and try hard to understand it all!

We bought some books on showing and tried ringcraft and spoken to dog show friends  where we then just feel very stoopid and small because it's like they all are speaking in a different language and makes us feel very stoooopid and out of place because they assume we should know what they are saying because they know it all so well but all we hear is a strange meaningless muddled noise because we are clueless!  I've been wondering what some of these things were for ages.... We hope to try another ringcraft again and just like to inderstand at least some of the things they talk about and then we should feel more comfortable talking  with these people! I hope!

There is a useful book called Showing from Begginers to Winners which is very easy to understand and might help you understand all the jargon, linked to any specialist are.

oh dear..I've got that book! And I'm still clueless!  I think it would be easier if I just knew beginners and not a bunch of experts who've been showing at Crufts for decades!  I ideally need to carry the book around with me to translate what people are saying to me!  I guess I am just very very bad at picking up any jargon in any field of interest.... but I am trying.

Don't worry we have all had to start somewhere.

What sort of things get you most flumoxed?

Must admit I didn't find it hard as I was already used to all the abreviations wheich are quite similar from showign rabbits.  the oen I ahd to get used to was that B stood for female, and D for male as in Rabbits it was the other way around being B for Buck = male and D for Doe = female.

AVNSC is the sme as is AV.

well..to let you know how much of a beginner I am...when I first walked int ringcraft people asked what 'line' my dogs were... and I had no clue what a line was!  So that was the first thing to study up on!