Is there a data base of non germanic bloodlines or are the two just mixed up together?
I would like to trace the origins of my dogs further back and find out a lot more that I know at the moment.
For instance my dogs have Grizzler and Beaumont in their bloodlines and I would like to know more.

lynne

If all German shepards are from Germany at one point or another, how can there exist non-German blood???? ;) Just teasing, of course. :)

Alsace hotly contends that it was ever "German", since it was only occupied during various points of history. So perhaps you could trace the lineage back to there someday :D :D And don't ever call an Alsacien "French" if you know what's good for you :) It will start WWIII and bypassers will get involved in that heated discussion :P

Toodles
Ever searching for signs of ggggrandpops Joseph Boury within Alsace region bef. 1840 :D :D)

hi shadow,
you may know that sadly the breed is now split .germanic lines and the more english lines,your breeder should be able to say wether he /she breeds to germanic lines or english, personaly prefer english lines as find germanic lines very over exagerated and can't see how the germanic lines could do the job that they were origanal bred for. there are lots of g.s.d sites that have history of peds etc,hope you find what you are looking for. regards tina

Hi Aoife,
yes my breeder uses only English bloodlines but she isn't on the internet and I would like to investigate any other good bloodlines for future breedings.
Its quite hard without investigating every web site on GSD's mainly to find that they have only Germanic stock.
Just thought someone might know of some sort of data base of English lines.

Lynne

Hi shadow you are delving in to the weird and wonderfull world of the gsd, i was explaining to a friend of mine about the different types of gsds that there are, and trying to explain about the english gsd and the german gsd, but! the german gsd that can have a roach back or a straight back are you confused yet:D, i personally like the english type but on saying that there are some very nice german dogs with straight backs that you may be mistaken for thinking they were english bloodlines, steve dean who has posted on here in the past has a very nice stud dog called bruich duran (buck ) and he has german bloodlines, good luck in your research Diane.

I think we've all got a little off track here- I know that Shadow knows about English and German bloodlines from the way she has spoke before. I think her only request is for somewhere on line where she may search her dog's English lines. I know exactly what you mean- I've traced Kassie's back to 1891:o Kass is German lines and doesn't have a 'roach' back- she is from German lines without the extremes like most of the Germanic dogs now in this country. But sadly no- I haven't seen any for English lines- not that I've tried though- have you scouted about properly yet or were you just wondering before you go delving? There must be some out there somewhere I think the trouble's finding them.

Stacey x x x

Hi shadow i tried to look for some english gsd bloodlines but like you didnt find much, everyone seems to have gone german bloodlines mad, there was a few on the web but only really well known dogs old and new, i put your to names in that are in your pedigree and nothing came up, can the breeder not give you more info or the kennel club, other than that i dont know what to suggest, sorry, re above message i didnt mean to come across as if you knew nothing about the differences within the breed, just that it is a tangled web to start delving into if you get my meaning

hi,
hope if shadow is looking to breed that she thinks very hard first, and that she will go back to her breeder to look for suitable stock from ther lines if she intends to line breed and does'nt go for joe bloggs dog down the road just because he happens to look nice, peds look good on paper with the odd ch here and there, but mean nothing unless you know the stock behind it.
regards tina.

I have 1 male (11 months) and 2 girls(10 weeks) from the same breeder and they will be mated together as my breeder recommended this as good foundation stock.
I don't show as all my dogs are longhaired and I was told this would put them at a severe dissadvantage even though they are beautiful looking dogs.(biased I know)!!!!!!!
There are only a few champions in their pedigree, and that was from working trials.
Temperament, health and looks are what I will be breeding for, I may do some agility with them when they are older. Would love to do obedience with them but I dont think I am good enough.

Lynne

Shadow I'm curious to know how a breeder can recommend that 2 tiny puppy bitches will make suitable mates for a young immature male? I understand that the mating could look good on paper, whether you are looking to line breed or outcross, but until they all mature and show their virtues and faults, how would you know if they will compliment each other? Supposing they all excel and fail in the same points??? That isn't the way I breed to improve my lines and would love to learn from a different perspective please.

hi val,
i am with you totally on this,why does shadow wish to breed,shadow you have a lot of young stock ther to handle,i do not mean to be rude in asking how experienced you are with the breed and your reasons to breed would like to know who your breeder is, not thinking of doing a brother sister mating i hope as i said i have waited a while to get what i want and then only intend to breed when i require somthing myself the bitch could be 4 or 5 years old by then, ifshadow is thinking of breeding as a way of making a few bob, think again, are you prepared to take any of the dogs back if there homes do not work out and deal with the problems that go with it, have you the room and a reserve pot icase these reterned pups need specialist handeling and training, don't mean to be negative but can't understand the breeder letting you have two pups together i would never let two from the same litter go even if they were well known in the breed,how are you going to cope when your girls come into season or are your dogs kenneled.
regards tina.

Aoife,
My partner Keith has kept GSD's all his life, but Shadow is my first GSD (had a collie previously) and we would like to breed cos he is such a fantastic dog, brill temperament, nice looking a great example of a gentle giant.

The two pups are litter sisters, bred from a line that should compliment his line but they are not brother and sister (their ancestors were related).

Nobody can buy a pup with a guarantee that it will complement their dogs, you can only hope, look at the pictures of the dogs ancestors and hope everything works to plan.

I have seen the pups mum, dad, aunt, uncle, grandfather, grandmother etc. and I fail to see what else I can do.

If the pups grow up and its obvious that they wouldnt benefit from being mated with Shadow then I would use another stud dog.

I have been on this board long enough to know the commitment needed to breed and I appreciate the aftercare, rehoming etc if need be, but I have a large(ish) house and garden and are planning to have some day runs built in the garden for when the girls come on heat.

My breeder had no worries about letting me have two girls together, as she knows I love, respect and train my dogs to the best of my ability.

Lynne

"Nobody can buy a pup with a guarantee that it will complement their dogs, you can only hope, look at the pictures of the dogs ancestors and hope everything works to plan.

I have seen the pups mum, dad, aunt, uncle, grandfather, grandmother etc. and I fail to see what else I can do."

I agree Lynne that nobody can buy a pup with a guarantee that it will complement their bitches, which is exactly why it isn't a good idea to do so. "Hope" doesn't get very far when breeding dogs! An alternative plan could be to wait until the bitch is mature, hip scored etc, assess her against the breed standard so that you know her good and bad points. Then look for a dog who (and his ancestors) excels where she fails, without bringing in any more failings. You can use the most suitable dog in the country for a stud fee and a tank full of petrol, not just use a dog because it looks good on paper and he happens to be handy!

Just an different way of thinking. :D and in my experience, the way to produce quality puppies.
There, now I've just told everybody my secret!! :rolleyes:

hi val,
while i have been writing my post you have beaten me to it, if you read my reply to lynne,we are mostly on track here. realy sorry lynne to be harsh and blunt but the breed can well do without people that think like you, also what val has said is right, those like val are the breeders you need to be seeing you breed to improve and not just breed because he she is good looking, with your girls yu don't know how there temprements are going to be, now you have three are they going to run as a pack. regards tina

Hi Lynne. I see that you work full time too. Try going to
http://www.bluegrace.com/index.html and clicking on virtual breeding in your lunch hour so that you don't upset your boss, of course! :D. There are some interesting decisions to be made when breeding, especially if you are working too.

I like that site too! It is very clever, with the different choices and scenarios!

Bin there, done that!!!!!!!!!
I'm a temp and will not be working full time, if at all when I start breeding.

My partner isn't working since we got the pups, so they havn't been neglected either!!!!

The pups sleep and rest in an indoor run, away from Shadow and when the girls come into season, it is them that will be put in the runs not Shadow, as they will probably bring each other on so therefore will have each other for comany even though there will be mesh between them to minimise hormonal squabbles.

Of course I have read the breed standard, but as they are English bloodlines, they break the standard straight away as to height, weight, length etc. but that is what I and a lot of other people prefer.

I have nothing against a correctly bred germanic GSD without sloping/banana backs with a good temperament, but each to his own.

Partner not working, working as a temp. Begins to make more sense about buying two bitches and your own dog to start breeding.
Think we're wasting our time here folks!
As you quite rightly say Shadow, each to his own!

hi val
quite agree with you , prob get the same picture as i am getting on this one as you said waste of time,time to log out of this one, going to be one of those breeders that the breed can do with out, one born every minute.regards tina

HOW DARE YOU PRESUME ANYTHING ABOUT ME!
I am a temp by choice, and my partner got made redundant the week we picked the pups up!!!!!!!

We are not lazy good for nothings and see breeding dogs as a money maker, they are our pets first and foremost.

Breeding dogs isn't the sole perogative of the show person, and I am just sick of all this holier than thou attutude.

And your right, I'll leave you to this and every other thread.

hi lynne
sorry still can't understand why you wish to breed, i am not hereing that you wish to improve on what you have,you keep going on about he looks nice the pictures of his/her relies look nice,do you know the breed standard,have you gone over your dogs felt under the coat for the conformation of the dog , what is his movement like.only breed to improve the breed to much crap out there as it is, you said the coat is to long in your dog, so why has your breeder not tryed to breed to the standard or are they breeding just for the pet market and just hope they can find buyers, if you have read vals post any decent breeder would not even sugest those things to you,no mention of hip scores either, and i would get that run up now by december your girls are around six months they could come in any time and with coated breeds you may not even notica them starting, from then i suggest you start putting a white sheet or towel on ther bedding so it will be easier to see. i am sorry but i can't see the point of breeding unless you show, work or do trials, and then only breed from the best quality stock, all i feel i am getting from this post is breed for money, you would of had those runs sorted out long before you had those bitches if you were breeding to improve.your lovably boy will change once he has had a bitch, back to seperating your dogs if you haven't started seperating them now you are going to be in trouble, if your boy lives in the house now how are you going to seperate them, you think putting him in a run and kenneling if he has not been used to it as a puppy is going to be honky dory rather you than me, regards tina

Lynne- you're not biased:) I've seen Shadow on the msn group and I think he's a beauty too;) Just waiting for you to put the puppy photo's on there too before I get all *puppy* broody again:D :D :D Have you seen Metpol Fan's Lady on there- as in the name she really is a lady:)- she too's a beauty and long haired;)

Stacey x x x

Hi Kash,
Thanks a lot, I have not been able to use the net too much lately due to a new stand in boss being a b***h and throwing her weigh around the office and insisting no use of internet until lunch, so with my new additions I don't get a lot of time in the evenings to surf.
I will look now to check out the new piccies.

Lynne

hi shadow
think most of us that like the english lines can find nothing on the web only germanic breeders,as another poster mentioned there are a few decent germanic ones out there.the dog that won at the two day show was quite nice and even the german judges write up on the breed over here said they were over exagerated and problems with the croup etc.do you show your g.s.d,what are your lines, regards tina.

hello again shadow,
as i will hopfully be showing when i get my long await g.s.d bitch pup,that is english linesmay be able to help,as i said in last post if i have some names of the breeding the breeder that i am getting my one from may have some info,will see them next weekend at bournmouth ch show. regards tina

Tina who are you getting your pup from?

hi metpol,
there affix is billnetts, bill petrie, have lovely stock,great movement wich tells me they are of sound construction,and you can tell that his dogs are dogs and his bitches are bitches,there is a lovely dog out at the moment doing very well beautifull clean cut dog lindellas good as gold only crit on him wich is minor hasn't a strong enough head for my liking. regards tina

I met his Dad going for Gold, at Windsor, when he won the Veteran Stakes. What a lovely regal dog. Such a calm and frank gaze! a real shepherd, neither nervous or aggressive!

As regards germanic and English type. I am with the breeders that have aimed for a middle of the road, sound type. The extremes of both the others do nothing for me!

Horid roach backs on one hand, with what seems like a real hyper temperament, and on the other hand long too low on leg heavy sluggish unathletic on the other!

I would imagine that is the reason both these dogs have found favour with judges against other breeds at general Championship shows, away from the GSD only scene!

I have shown against him in the past with my boy who is a met bred dog not show type as i am a not a big fan of the show type, although i do like stranmillis dax voyager a very nice dog, and another dog called lindellas kane, but i continue to show and i do get placed higher when it is an all breeds judge that is doing the judging not a gsd judge, i may see you around the ring.

hi metpol fan,
look forward to meeting you some day, not getting pup until december, so will not be out untill april may time, just had a look back on show results and bill gave dax voyager the res cc at welks overend commander at lorrianford got the dog ticket,looking at the way bill judged liked his style as he was def judging to type thats a good judge in my books. regards tina

Couldn't agree more Brainless;) ;) ;) Politics eh!

Stacey x x x

hi brainless,
did not get pleasure of seeing that boys dad but have been told he was nice.just looking at derbyshire ch show results goodas gold won his class post grad tramella tanni bis looking at it was a mixture both camps together
at this show, cullens veneze bitches very nice
regards tina

I'm attending the Derbyshire open show tomorrow- hang on - I mean today- it's at 1pm:)

Stacey x x x

hi kash
don't panic, talking about g.s.d derbyshire ch show that was on 8th june photos and critic in this weeks our dogs
regards tina

I know- I attended that too:) It's their open show today:) The Sheffield has a good mixture of both too- that's on the 22nd Sept:)

Stacey x x x

kash are you attending the darlington champ show in september, i am going with Buffy.

No Diane- sadly I only have Bolton and Sheffield CH shows and Bolton open show left for this year:( I might go to the N.Yorks and S.Durham open show in October too but that's my lot I think;) Until next year when it's my bitch in the ring:D :D :D

Stacey x x x

Infact I might or could enter her in the Bolton open show.....................now look what you've done- you've got me thinking:D :D

Stacey x x x

hi stacy
hope you had a good day at your show, how did you do.
regards tina,

I didn't have her in- she's not 6 month until the 25th Sept. The show's she'll be in will be the Bolton on the 6th Oct, possibly N.Yorks and S.Durham on the 26th Oct then GSD League on the 15th Dec:) Saw Lindella's Let's Dance though (you mentioned Liondella's in an earlier post) she came 1st in Graduate bitch:) The weather held out at least- that venue has no indoor arrangements:)

Stacey x x x

Lynne have you tried searching for databases on google?

Stacey x x x

I did kash and there wasnt a lot on the good old english gsd but a lot on the german gsd, would anyone out there like to start one up :D

I haven't got a clue then Diane As you know Kassie is from German lines- and let's face it 'Ulk von Arlett' and 'Rikkor von Bad Boll' are never hard to find! I think you should start one strictly English lines..............fancy volunteering;) Anyway what have you been up to? Seems like ages since I last caught up with you- you been showing? Ingrid was praising your Lady last night in Matties chat room:)

Stacey x x x

oh so theres late night chat rooms now is there:D i have done hardly any showing this year as every time a show comes up i am always working on that weekend, i have gone down another path with buffy still going to show her but may dabble in some field trials as she seems to have a natural ability for it, i have the help of an ex police dog handler my boss who is giving me tips on how to get the control ( obedience ) then once that is ok i will go onto the next stage so fingers crossed but she needs to do more as she is driving me crazy!!!!!

Oooh I love it when you can call on your contacts for help:D :D :D It means that I can then call on you in turn;) How is Lady doing lately by the way?

Stacey x x x

Lady is fine still plodding on, i got the food sorted out for her now so no more nasty surprises for me in the mornings she is on sainsburys scout meat and nutro for sensitive stomachs what a difference it has made, so whats this matties chat room then? i just want to be nosey see what ive missed, how is your pup coming along, i tried to get another one but mick wasnt having any of it spoil sport.