Do any members find a need for this in their area? Are there counsellors working locally that you recommend? I am considering this area but am uncertain whether this is a purely North American concept or whether there is a real need in the Uk for this ind of serice to occasionally call on?

Di

I have to say that my first dog dying (and my pet rat later on) was one of the worst things that has ever happened to me and took ages to get over.  I still feel horrible guilt that maybe I could have done more.  It took ages to get over.  However, being totally honest with you, I would never even consider going to see a counsellor about it.  I live in the south west - maybe this is just an English response to death?

There definately is a need for them so don't worry. I know the Blue Cross runs this service, maybe they will be able to help. <a class='url' href='http://www.bluecross.org.uk/web/site/OurWorkExplained/PetBereavement/PBSSIntro.asp'>http://www.bluecross.org.uk/web/site/OurWorkExplained/PetBereavement/PBSSIntro.asp</a>
Maybe you could volunteer initially and see how it goes.
val

I personally don't see the need for any professional counsellors. There are many people who are more than happy to help others for free :)

Daisy

Edited to add that I know of a few people in my area who charge for 'counselling' (not pet counselling) - I just hope that this doesn't catch on in the pet area. Many people who are very upset after a death CAN manage perfectly well in the normal way and don't need to be persuaded to part with money to do this :(

I think sometimes only other dog people can help - friend and family don't truly understand if they are not dog people, however well intentioned they may be :)

Maybe sometimes, people who have lost an animal companion find it easier to talk to a stranger who understands totally than to friends or family who may say "Oh she was lovely but she was only a dog" etc etc

I found my best help pretty much was a great little book called "Absent Friends" by Laura and Martyn Lee, which gave practical advice and helped with understanding the stages of grief etc. I recommend it and have lent it to friends, wouldn't be without it now :)

Lindsay
x

I agree Lindsay that a fellow dog lover is essential, but can anyone be sure that professional counsellers are really animal lovers - it could be just a job to them?  I've had counselling in the past (not for pet bereavement) and found it awful that there was a time limit at which point the counsellor would wind things up.  Necessary I know in any profession, but still rather traumatic to someone in a highly emotional state.  I think the ideal is family or friends who care about animals as much as you do and are prepared to be there for you when you need them (I've been on the giving and receiving side of this).  I've also found it helps if the people knew your dog and can share experiences of them, which a counsellor would be unable to do.  Like any grieving process, people have to move on at their own pace not to a set schedule.

I personally don't see the need for any professional counsellors. There are many people who are more than happy to help others for free

Daisy, did you mean specifically for bereavement counselling, or counselling in general. In my experience there is a distinct lack of free help for people...and I mean trained help, not just well meaning people.  Some peoples psyhchological response to loss is different and no one should be made to feel inadequate in some way if they need help. I recently suffered severe stress following a prolonged period of abuse by a mentally ill work colleague... I have had plenty of advice from friends, but it didnt help me or make me feel any better.  I have benefitted very much from professional counselling who listened. She was able to help me to work out for myself why I felt this way and how to move on. Most untrained people just talk at you. Unfortunately despite the extreme circumstances I have had to pay for this service....psychologists have bills to pay. I couldnt find anywhere I could get free counselling.

The fact that services are available shows that there is a need for it.
I know I'm very lucky to be surrounded by friends and family who understand how much I adore my animals and have been there for me when times have been hard.
Unfortunately it's not like that for everybody. In many cases a cat, dog or any pet is the owners family and friend and is all they have. How awful then, on the loss of their best friend that there is nobody to turn to, especially men, who are expected to keep a 'stiff upper lip', probably terrified of breaking down at work surrounded by colleagues giving it the 'it's only a dog' comment.
As far as I know, calls to many of these counsellers are local call rate and can even be done by e.mail.
I imagine they have been through the loss of a pet themselves and can fully understand the hurt.
Friends and family can sympathise and listen but don't necessarily know the right words.

Val

I'm not doubting that there is a need for some people to receive counselling services. I am sure that these can be obtained through the likes of a GP or consultant. What worries me is that there are a lot of people who 'think' that they need counselling, when what they really need to do is to go through the normal grieving process :( There are many 'services' out there that are available for a fee that aren't absolutely necessary to the well being of a person. My husband has a cousin who has to have her weekly facial :D This does not mean that she needs the service just because it is available. There is a school of thought that believes that most of the counselling provided after tragedies is not necessary and can even be counter productive.

Daisy

>There is a school of thought that believes that most of the counselling provided after tragedies is not necessary and can even be counter productive.

See here.

I agree with Daisy.  A lot of people are under the misconception that counselling somehow spirits all the bad feelings away.  This is not the case. The counsellor is there to help people through a process should something in their lives be causing them such trauma that they are unable to move forward through the natural process of dealing with such things.  Bereavement is a part of life and it is necessary for people move through the grieving process and in time learn to live with the memories and feelings.  People who are really in need of counselling are those who are unable to go through the natural process and their lives and the lives of those around them are being adversely affected with no prospect of any change. 

If a person thinks they need counselling they should seek this through their GP who will be able to refer them to the appropriate professionals. 

The poster is talking just about pet bereavement and so am I. The service offered by the Blue Cross (the link I put) is simply to have somebody by a phone to be there if somebody wants to talk about the loss of their pet - I think they are called Befrienders rather than counsellors. It's not the sort of service where you book a weekly appointment and are kicked out after an hour !. I think it's a great thing to have if you need somebody to talk to.
I wonder if the poster means this sort of thing or the 'money making' type ?.

Val

Ok. Well I was thinking of pet bereavement counselling in the same frame as people bereavement counselling which is massively different to talking to someone onthe phone.  I would be suspicious of pet bereavement counselling in the conventional meaning of counselling as it does sound like a type of money making business. 

I agree the Blue Cross phone idea would be very different. 

I think each to their own on this everybody deals with grief in different ways - if someone feels that paying someone else to listen and talk through there problems is the way for them to deal with it then I don't see any problem with that,  it would be the last thing that I'd want to do but like I said everyone deals with things in their own way.  I friend of mines Dad past away a few years ago and every six months or so she goes to a medium. She believe that sometimes her Dad communicates with her, from what she's told me I don't buy it but she believes in this and it makes her feel better, which is what matters.  She a level headed person, she's got on with her life and isn't consumed by grief this is just her way of dealing.  I think there can sometimes be a line that is crossed with people taking advantage of vulnerable grief stricken people but unfortunately I thinks that's just life and there are some people who will take advantage at any opportunity.  I don't think that everyone that wants to make a living from helping other people in some way or another are just cashing in on others misfortune though - some people really want to help and are fortunate enough to beable to make a living from it.

Karen

I appreciate all the varying viewpoints. Food for thought. This would be what you chaps have deemed a 'money making service'... wonderful phrase ;-)

Certainly it is something I have considered, having, through behavioural work, boarding, breeding, exhibiting, being a officer on several canine societies, owning, loving and dealing with almost all aspects of dogs I have met many people who certainly would benefit from having a shoulder - not as a full time occupation, but as an 'as and when' service.

Having used human counselling occasionally over the years lord knows there are counsellors and there are counsellors, but one thing that seems to stand true is that not everyone has someone they can open up to. And some prefer to open up to a stranger trained specifically in dealing with their feelings and offering practical suggestions other than 'it'll be ok dear...' or 'have you considered a new puppy...'

What drew my attention to the area was in my 'proper job' I was at a personnel seminar a few weeks back and one of the top 5 reasons for sickness/absence in staff is death or serious mishealth of a pet.

There are as many people with as many different characters as there are stars in the sky and although some may dismiss counselling of any sort as taking money from vunerable people, and they have the right to that viewpoint, others will be greatful for the service being there if it is comparable in any way to human counselling.

We shall see - there are three interesting looking courses on offer from three different sources so was just dipping a toe in a knowledgeable pool. Bear in mind most who seem to use the service are pet owners with one dog who are desolate when that animal dies. Most on here would be multiple or at least experienced dog owners with plenty of comfort in a big cuddle from their other dogs.
Thank you again.
Di

I think help for peole who lose their pet s great. When I was a kid my mum died of cancer and in those days as a kid you just had to shut up and keep a smile on your face... and I really think that was such a bad idea because you just can't pretend it's all okay when it isnt.

So when our dog died we were gutteed. He was the one and only dog in our lives and a life long dream... so when he died suddenly at a very young age it was awful. I was gutted. I had trained him to help with my slightly asd child and he was her special friend and his death put her from top ability class in school to special needs class. No matter how much people like to think it's just a dog' they ar actualy close and oving companions and rightly or wrongly you gear all your life round them and so the loss has a major impact and to have easily accessable help to deal with any issues and identify also in pther family members when the pain is too much to bear and is having more impact to cause  helth and mental health problems that need seeing to. There are GP's but people need directing to them because I found we kept telling ourselves he was a dog don't be so silly pull yourselves together...this is a normal part of life and so on... but the resoning and mind over matter will not always help but someone who understands how grief works and so on could be very helpful providing it is easy to find them!

I'll tread carefully here because it's not my intention to be insensitive or undermine the real loss that people feel when a much loved pet dies. Indeed, I was knocked for six when I lost Bob very suddenly about 18 months ago. However, I do feel that there's been a slightly unhealthy swing from the practical but not always helpful  "pull your socks up and get on with it" approach in years past to a society that is becoming increasingly over-counselled. If counselling becomes an automatic requirement to deal with life's bleaker times there's always a danger of failing to recognise that grieving is a natural process and that you need self reliance to get through it. The comfort and support of friends and family will go a long way to help the process but sadly we are all likely to lose a good few beloved pet companions in our lifetimes given the vast difference in life expectancy between humans and animals and it's important to develop the self-reliance possible to cope with this inevitability. So while I'm sure pet bereavement counselling could help some people, I'd personally not want to see it viewed as an essential ingredient in the grieving process.

I agree with you Roz.  Maybe counselling is for when you just can't cope using the mechanisms and support systems available to you and within you?  I think it is probably a good thing to have available as an option but not to be used as an attempt as 'fast tracking' greiving.  Perhaps in our 'quick fix' culture we expect these problems to disappear nice and tidily and quickly which puts extra pressure on everyone who goes through a normal, painful, slow greiving process.

I think society has changed so much that aspects of life such as death of human friends and family is much harder to cope with.  People are very remote from death so when they are hit by it those around them can not understand or share the pain.  It is very rare I meet people my age who have lost parents but at last it is getting more normal and I am reaching an age where people my age will know and understand the impact of such a loss... but still without all the lost years! It is good like is like this for so many people....but harder for the those who face a close loss.

This is suppose to be one benefit of having pets... it is supposed to help to keep  the exposure with death that people need to keep this viewed as a normal part of life.  When you loose a dog people in the dog world are full of empathy...they fully understand the loss and can share your pain . Without some special people and the support of my local community and the local dog community who were totally amazing I don't know how I would have got through through the last year. But my teenage daughter was outside that community being in school and bottled up her feelings and crashed out and so needed help and in school.. she has had someone talking through these issues and heping her throuhg the grief process ... which we really appreciate.

lol...you have to laugh though....  I had to go it alone and just be strong as a kid when my mum died and my daughter was given help when our dog died! But this has to be a step forward! Some people might think it is soft these days but why bleed to death when you can put on a dressing!

Also ...many people these days have no family... many people live away from their roots in cities full of strangers too busy to even know who lives next door to them. Few people are ready to give up time to be a strength to those who loose a loved member of their family let alone a dog. So for many  people their dog is their family, their community... their strength. Times have changed.  This is why people sometimes need artificial help.  Like ready meals the need for counceling is here and here to stay.

A lady wrote to me and said although it's very hard to loose a dog it's one of the responsabilities we take on when we choose to go down the road of having a dog... we know they live such short lives and although we do not know if it will be one year or 10 yers or 16 years we know it is a certainty that too soon they will die. And before we choose a pup we need to decide are we ready and willing to face this responsibility.

I think part of the grief process must start before we actually get our dog... we must think clearly that the unexpected may well happen and we may loose a young dog or for a certainty the  years will pass by in a flash and we will have to quickly need to see our loving friend on their way. 

In a previous lifetime(well it feels like it now 2 1/2 years on)I often visited WWII veterans in the course of my work

I met a wonderful elderly gentleman(& he was truly a gentleman)who had served in the Far East with the Ghurkas(sp)in a forward engineers group. It was his job & that of his men to seek out & destroy booby traps left by retreating Japanese troops. The retreating soldiers booby trapped everything & apart from the anxiety of losing his troops & his own life, he also had the terrible job of checking every dead body they found & I won't go into details but it was really harrowing for him. He returned to the UK in 1947 & his troops gave himn a gold(solid !!) Khukri which he proudly displayed in his home, as a mark of the utmost respect

He had had terrible nightmares ever since returning to the UK & was told(as most were)to get over it. They plagued his life until the anniversary of VJ day & the TV programs. He went to one of the services in the Far East & met some of his troops again. He spoke for the first time in 50 years about what they had gone through & also spoke to a trained counsellor that SAAFA had provided & all his post traumatic stress came tumbling out. From that time onwards his nightmares reduced & his quality of life IHHO improved dramatically

He could not speak highly enough about the counselling service & apparently it is the same with many other veterans. They had no counselling or help when they most needed it & many still haven't received any, but those that have endorse the help that available to people today

It isn't advice etc that counsellors are therefore but just to listen impartially & empathetically(sp)to help people cope.

This is why sharing grief & pain when you lose a pet on a form like this helps-you realise you are not alone not stupid or weak to grieve

There are services available, I'm sure I saw a pet bereavement leaflet in our vets.  Perhaps not an essential part of the healing process but it certainly may provide help to some. 

As said above, people psychological response to loss is different; grieving is an important process to move on regardless of the reason.  Emotional repression is the route cause of depression.

Seeking help at a time of need is a sign of health and courage.  IMO, judging on how popular anti-depressant medication has become in the western world in recent years, there are many that could do with help such as therapy and bereavement counselling.  

I wonder whether the massive use of anti-depressant medication has anything to do with society as a whole rejecting anything 'negative'? From an early age children are encouraged to laugh, but are told "ah, don't cry" when they're sad, instilling the notion that happiness is acceptable but sadness should be hidden?

There is also, very much IMO, a notion of a being a 'victim' and needing 'special' help to overcome whatever. In general, people are much more resilient than they imagine and resorting to medication and 'counselling' at an early stage can only exaggerate the problem. Don't get me wrong - my mother has lived with severe depression all my life (I was the cause of it :rolleyes: ) so I do have understanding of, and sympathy, with depression.

Daisy

Oh Daisy I am another one that caused my mother to have severe depression Perhaps we can PM and swap experiences ;)

My sister also suffers and has been through some really rough patches :rolleyes:

The one thing I will say is that you need to talk when you are trying to cope with grief :) Bottling it up is a major problem to why people cannot cope because they feel they cannot talk to anybody :rolleyes: The world carries on but you are stuck in a time warp and you feel nobody will understand :rolleyes:

If you haven't got anybody who you feel understands then it can be a problem :(

But that is why Rainbow Bridge is there as it is a focus on like minded people who have been through it and understand and can give support

My father always claims it was my fault that my mother had severe depression as well - I'm interested that two posters on here acce[t blame for their mother's depression - it's an illness not caused by anything, an imbalance in the brain - that's what the doctors always said - despite this, Dad still said it was my fault.  Do PM me about this one!

Just to clarify something - no-one has ever blamed me for causing my mother's depression - she got severe PND after my birth :) I was the cause - but I wasn't to blame :)

Daisy

Same here as well :)

There is a big difference now in how families operate compared to years ago when Gran, aunts, uncles etc all lived in the vicinity.  The family network of support that helps in times of births and deaths is much weaker these days because of the way families move away from one another.

Emotional acceptance by society has a huge part to play but there can be other factors, such as trauma, dysfunctional families, fast pressurised pace of the Western world,  etc, etc.  Crying is the healing tears for the soul; we just don't do enough of it.

I honestly think our lives and expectations have developed too fast for the primitive part of our brains to cope. 

However, decades ago, depression was still around too but it was kept hidden.  Mental illness was taboo and valium was the wonder drug of the 60's.  I wonder what the suicide rates were like then within the population compared with today. 

>A notion of a being a 'victim' and needing 'special' help to overcome whatever.

There are people like that but that too is a physical manifestation of an emotional disturbance.  Still needs dealing with and overcoming but the only people that can truly help are those who help themselves.  All a councillor or therapist does is show them the way or give them the tools to deal with whatever it is they need to deal with.