hi all, i have a dog and a bitch i cannot use the bitch for breeding, but im hoping to put my dog in to stud ive done some reading on it but how do i go about it, im in essex and he's from wales so he's a new line of blood, he's 3yrs old, papered, kc reg ect any help and info would be great thanx danielle

Admin: breed removed. Please read the terms of service again

If he does well in the show ring, then bitch owners will be contacting you, not the other way round.

sorry i forgot about the breed bit admin, and thanx but i dont think he can be shown i was told as he broke a toe and had to have it removed! would this afect him?

My dog had a toe amputated and I have permission from the KC to show him. :)

thanks danielle this is my main concern I dont want to lose the close bond I have with Harry

i know wot you mean same here but i think it depeneds on the dog ive breed my gsd before and he stayed the same never just jumped on the back of a female dog ect {rip}

thanks danielle that has helped to put my mind at ease. Harry is a very well behave dog he is well trained. Im sure its just be worrying as usual I worry about everything

o kool, so can you  help as im new to this, he is kc reg but i need to know how i go about finding shows ect in my area, do i have to get permission from the kc to show him and how thanx

As he's had an operation you need to write to the Kennel Club telling them and asking for permission to show him, of course including his registered name and number! In the meantime phone the KC on 0870 6066750 and ask for details of your nearest ringcraft club, so you can train him (and yourself!) for the show ring. Good luck!

I suggest you read the first post on the Breeding Forum of this site. :)

i thought this is the first topic on breeding on the page?

This is the post you need to read. It's about spaniels but applies to all breeds. :)

ok thanks for that I will have a read

ive read about the mating but it dont say anything about the kc, ill call them and find out

thanx alot its helped ill call them and find out were my nearest one is

thanks chloeH that made me smile.
isnt this the same post as the other one running about studding?

It's running along the same track ;)

Margot

funny how the OP's seem to have joined at the same time.... :rolleyes:

If you go down to the ChampDogs woods today................ (see other thread!) :D

I'm reading both topics and haven't seen this sort of info given so shall talk a little.

Standing a dog at stud is not easy. It is not an easy way to make money. If your dog is well used, frequently used then you may make some money, lets not disillusion ourselves here but it really depends what you want from doing this.

Why is standing a dog at stud not easy? Because you are providing a service. You are not turning your dog into a garden with a bitch and going inside for a cup of tea, taking their lumpy cheque and then going to play with cloned versions of your dog nine weeks later. This is as much of a fairy tale as the brothers Grimm.

First your dog needs to have the relevent health tests for his breed. These need looking into. We live in a country where the lady down the road MIGHT ask to use your dog, but she will sure as oats is oats also look into others dogs once she really decides to look into breeding and see that she wants these test done and good results returned. OK, maybe you think 'blow it, SOOOOO many people want to use him i'll go for it anyway...'

So then think o this. YOU have have to get that bitch mated. Not your dog. Not your neighbour. Not the bitch owner. You do. You are taking wedges of cash from someone for a service and if it is not provided they will be banging on your door 9 weeks later demanding answers. You need to KNOW about what you are undertaking. We have domesticated animals to the extent that even when ready for mating many bitches can turn on the dog....and this is fine before the mating takes place, but what would you do if it was when they were tied together and unable to get apart? Do you know what a tie is? How to get a bitch mated who is a bit tall for your dog? A bit short? One who is seeing him off with her teeth but her back end is showing all the signs of accepting him? Of a bitch who wants to lay down all the time? Do you know when people call how to tell them to know when to bring their bitch to your dog? Many MANY bitch owners don't know this. These are the things you are entailing in your stud service, not just a quick bonk in the back garden.

Then they look to you to help them through pregnancy, to tell them about problems that might crop up. You need to KNOW. You need to know how soft a vulva should be before you even consider mating a bitch. When she should be encouraged into it and when she should be taken home entirely unready.

A inexperienced stud dog does NOT know when a bitch is ready, he learns this so YOU must know. Do you know?

Do you know legally where you stand with a stud dog? What is your obligation financially if there are terrible health problems with the pups?

These things are even before you start to look into what sort of a dog should be used at stud. Yes his temperament will change. He will become far more focused on 'women' than you. Only standing a dog at stud occaionally is even worse.

You need to know how to handle this and if it is worth the few hundred quid you might charge a couple of timesin his life.

What happens with kennel club litter registration forms. Do you know what they even look like? How to fill one in as the stud dog owner? When to hand them over to the bitch owner? What to do if they start asking you about what their bitch will produce from your dog genetically colourwise? If you can make them up pedigrees and puppy packs? What if puppy owners want to come and spend time with your dog, the sire, are you happy to take many afternoons and weekends doing this? Its all part of the service.

Its a stud service, not a stud fee and its HARD. You need to watch someone with experienced stud dogs to know how to handle mating situations. If you dump your dogs in the garden you will end up with a terrible fight on your hands in some cases or a raped bitch when she isn't ready for mating or a bitten stud dog who starts to them lunge at every dog or bitch he sees to 'get them before they get him'.

Do you know what colour the discharge should be from the bitch before considering mating her - the body language? Do you know how long to persevere with your dog before you realise she is NOT ready? Do you know how to manually hold your dog on for tie and how to lift the bitches vulva to him and how to break a tie if an absolute emergency happens?

These are not wild dogs, it is not easy. I want a stunning last line but can't think of one. Its not breedersnot wanting competetion for stud fees, no offense but pet dogs with no health scpores and no field or show wins are not competition, a ttally different sort of bitch will come to you, BUT the owners want the same level of service, advice and experience not stuttering and flapping and leaving it to a novice dog and novice bitch to get themselves into terrible trouble.
Di

thanx for that thats really good help, ill get on the phone to the kc, and ill go see my mate who breeds rottys, and watch them with her dogs to get some lessons ect, theyve  been  doing it for years and do it every well thanx everyon

am groaning inwardly, counting to 10 :rolleyes:and biting my tongue

if you have such a knowlegable friend then i dont see why you needed our help? i am sure your friend wll be able to tell you all about the standard for your breed, the bloodlines and their health implications, from looking at your dogs pedigree he/she will be able to pont out faults within lines and  any health problems that may have manifested since the earlier matings. as well as what health tests you need to get done specifically for your breed, the legal and moral implications, not to mention the way your dog will start to behave after he has been used.

. ..............head slumps against keyboard and I delete these lists from my favourite places for fear of getting so worked up about some of the people on here that it starts to make me lose the will to live.

Bye and take care one and all.

Di

We often feel the same Di.  Bye. :)

You could just hit the ignore button ;)

I hope you don't mean bye to Champdogs itself, Di :)  Your posts have been very knowledgable and interesting and I have enjoyed reading them, would be a shame to lose you over a few trolls.  Trolls are a fact of internet life, who unfortunately thrive on attention.......and here I go giving them a little more :rolleyes: :)
I don't know what happened today, last night we messaged each other and kept the attention to a minimum but today I come along to find everyone down in the woods playing with them :D

Oh no di stay with us, voice of reason :D

Don't go Di, that was one fabulous post to refer back to many a time in the future. :)

omg i cant belive it y is it most sites now just have to have a go??? i was just asking, yes i could ask her but i thought id ask on here as shes never heard of that breed, im sick of people always having to have a go, i just wanted to know a few things mostly as i have a baby shes not well atm so its hard to run around and see people spes if they live far away. thanx anyway but theres no need for that :(

>ive breed my gsd before

If you had a GSD stud dog, surely the principles are the same for any breed

yes but i friend asked me to only the once and i did it but we didnt go though this, she just wanted him to mate and thats it, yer i know its wrong now, but we learn from our mistakes

i'd like to know why- not just you but others, what do you want out of putting your dog to stud? is it for the welfare of the breed ie- producing good, healthy pups to the breed standard, or is it the money?

i suppose its the same when people breed- they either do it because their bitch is of great temprement and health or the money???

but- it seems an easy way of getting some cash to let your dog tie with a bitch, it sort of annoying, actually, alot annoying..

well the reson i would like to breed him is because i love this breed but dont see much of it, i know some breeders in wiltshire and ive been told its known as a rare dog so i thought i have a dog, thats from wales so he's got different blood from here, i could help and get some more here, i thought some studs would want a new blood line too, thats all whats wrong with that, all my life ive grown up loving animals, resucing them, ect ive done my bit in sancarys ect breed other mild things to help, thats all im doing its not about the money at all not all people care about money

Having an interest in a vulnerable breed myself I can assure you that breeders will already be willing and able to travel the length and breadth of the country in order to make the best matches that they possibly can.  When a breed is rare and gene pools are small it is even more important to use all the knowledge that the old hands have and pick very, very carefully in order not to mess up what there is.  Best left to the experts really unless you are willing to put yourself entirely in their hands by contacting the breed club and asking them to assess you dog and see if he has anything to offer.

yes i do that id just like to be involed, play my part in helping thanx very much its nice to have a nice convo without people getting the hump ect and jumping into conlusions

I've never been in a conlusion in my life :D 
You have to be prepared to accept their opinion of him, though, whatever it is :)

i no that but the reson i got pritty upset was coz im asking for help and i got a upsetting message bk

If you got the dog from a reputable breeder, then this should be your 1st port of call....after all, it is her bloodlines you will be using.  Have you checked to make sure that his progeny will be eligible for KC registration...I would imagine, that if it is one of the vulnerable breeds, you may find that you cannot use him at stud.....restrictions will be in place

will it, ill have to find out, what happened is a mate went to wales and got him and one of his sisters then ive got him now

so do you even have his papers(unendorsed). Do you know what lies behind his breeding? Have you spoken to his breeder to find out which lines in this "rare breed":rolleyes: are suitable for his lines? Is his breed on the import register? the rare breeds list? or just the vulnerable native list? Are you a member of the breed club who would have experienced breeders who could point you in right direction?

not yet im bring him to my home end of week eith everything, so as i get it all ill be on the phone to the kc to find out everything.

So - let me get this right - you want to stud out a dog you don't even have yet???

will it, ill have to find out, what happened is a mate went to wales and got him and one of his sisters then ive got him now
not yet im bring him to my home end of week eith everything, so as i get it all ill be on the phone to the kc to find out everything.

sounds as though he's just been passed about, and his prospective owner is already planning to stud the dog before she has even had a chance to see him.

can you just explain why? this doesnt sound too good to be honest with you.

I hope you don't go Di, although if you have I guess you won't be seeing this message. Your calm and patience here, your experienced way of handling posts and giving answers and info without letting what your own personal feelings about the matter may be get in the way, is both refreshing and exceptionally welcome. It has been really good reading your posts, and I really hope you stay, but understand the frustrations you feel that would make you leave. Good luck with your dogs, and best wishes.

he is mine ive seen him, ect, just waiting to0 bring him home, as ive moved, why does this seam a big problem to you all i just come here to find out some things before i got him and made plans, i love my animals, i take good care of them, so i dont see the fuss, normally people are happy when you ask before you do, or plan!!! please can everyone chill a little please!

If you want to stud him, get his hips scored and eyes tested etc, whatever's relevant for his breed. Then he needs to be seen - your best bet is to show him or work him (depending on his breed). If he does well, bitch owners will ask to use him. If he doesn't do well, nobody will want his puppies ...

thanx for that, i was going to show him even if i didnt want to stud him, as i always go to fun ones with all my animals specialy horses, never been to a dog one thats not fun days (hope you get me), i know this breed is a working breed but he's only done track and find (fun play stuff) but if i find one of these places to take him would they help train him to be a working dog? wots it like in a proper show? i know how hard it is in horse shows, wot do i wear ect thanx

im sorry we all got off on the wrong foot with this post i should of put things better but as in my other post im not going yo be showing him gutted, but theres something im puzzled on:
on most of these posts everyone says that once a dog is used for stud they changed, well i did what you said and visted my friends that are breeders and weve not seen a change in them, one bred staffs, and he;s fine very friendly still in a house with 4 kids and 2 bitches and hes not aggressive not jumping on there backs at all, same with the rotties, its not every dog i think depends on how there brought up, please dont take this as im starting anything just thinking maybe not every dog will change to bad.

A stud dog should not be jumping on bitches backs. tha changes that can occur are aminly their attitude to their own sex, and their awareness of bitches cycles (including neighbouring ones and those met on walks).  Certainly he is likely to check out all females he meets to see how interesting they are.

Many males that have been used will become more primitive and doggy than they once were, and be more interested in their own kind and their status within the canine kingdom than their position as your pet.

This means they are less likely to tolerate challenges from other males on walks, certainly in most breeds would not accept males in their home near one of their girls (and theirs may mean to them any bitch in their vicinity). 

Training of course can have a big impact, as well as how old the dog was when first used, and his temperament/character.  For example a well trained well mannered dog that has learnt to be  stud later in life may show little or no change.  Conversely a young male at the grwoing up finding their feet stage after beign used may become m9ore macho than you may like.