Hello

I've got a long line (10 meters) for my 7.5 month old springer.  Whose else is using a long line and how do you use it?  Just clipp it on and away you go or only at training times?

Thanks and regards

Bagpipe

Firstly - do you also have a correctly fitting plain harness?  Long lines should ALWAYS befitted to a harness NOT a collar, because of the distance the dog can travel you want any resulting force which may come when you want to stop the dog quickly, being tranferred through as wide an area as possible so as to avoid any damage......  Do NOT use a 'stop pulling' type of harness.

Start off my holding on to the line, let him get a short distance away, and then call your dog to you using its name and the command 'come' once.  Use the dogs name to get their attention, then issue the command.  There is no point in calling your dog if they haven't already shown they are listening and/or watching you, so you are setting yourself up to fail if you do.  If you use the recall command more than once, your dog learns they don't have to act on the first command and can safely ignore you because you don't really mean it, so don't fall into that trap either ;)  Have a REALLY yummy treat ready - a biscuit of a piece of kibble MIGHT work, once or twice, but would you work for £3 an hour?  You want your dog to think he's getting a really good return on his effort, so think roast chicken or hot dog sausage, maybe a small piece of cooked liver - do you get my drift?  Remember dogs have a far better sense of smell than they do of taste, so you want that smell to help draw him towards you too........  And make it big enough for him to see between your fingers to start with.  So, in an ideal world, you'd call his name, his head will pop up and you tell him to come - he does, and you give him the treat..........

BUT - this isn't an ideal world - you call him, and he ignores you, so jangle the long line to get his attention, then call him and reward him.  Maybe he starts to come, but gets distracted - make sure he doesn't get distracted by keeping the distances short and using your voice to sing song 'good boy' to encourage him to keep coming. You could also retreat yourself, as if you are running away from him (watch where you're treading though ;)) Maybe he looks at you, but then decides he doesn't actually *have* to do what you want - then remind him he does by reeling in the long line.

Slowly increase the distance he is permitted to go away from you as he proves reliable, then you can start to decrease the frequency and size of the reward.  Most dogs will continue to repeat a behaviour if they are only rewarded 2 times out of every 10 efforts, so slowly drop the frequency and save the rewards for the best/quickest efforts.  You can even throw in a 'jackpot' reward for the really good quick response. This will encourage him to keep with the programme for the possibility of getting that extra special reward.  Make sure the verbal and petting praise is as enthusiastic as the very first time he ever came back.

The whole walk should be a lesson in manners and respect, infact most of a dogs waking life he should be learning something, even if it's only that when I'm settled and quiet Mum likes it because she talks quietly and gently to me and this encourages me to keep doing it.

HTH

Hello

Thanks for your answer.
Her recall is actually quite good.  I train her to come to me when she hears the whistle (three short peeps).  If we are out and about and she disappears into the undergrow I whistle, her head pops up and she runs to me.  Or when she runs ahead of me I suddenly blow the whistle and she turns round and runs back to me, sits in front of me and I give her verbal praise and a tasty treat and say 'off you go' and let her run again.  Even if she sniffs on something on the ground and I want her to stop sniffing/eating it (some dog's poo seems to be more tasty then others) and I whistle, she will come.  That's all very nice, but if she see's people, bicyles other dogs, then she might stop running when she hears the whistle, but the distraction is too big for her to cope with.   That's why I bought the long line, because I would love to teach my puppy to ignore or at least to interrupt whatever she is engaged in and come back to me when I want her to.  A recall is not good enough if she only responds in low distraction.   As far as I understood the long line is thought to be helpful in these kind of circumstances.  I normally try to be always one ahead of her and call her to me when I see a bicyle, other dog, people (or even worse a jogger)  before she notices them, I praise and treat for coming back and put the lead on.  That sometimes when I call her (without reason, just for training so to speak) she will come and looks around what or who is about.   Because she seems to assume sometimes there might be something about when I call her.   I wonder whether I should put the long line on instead of the lead, tell her to go off again and when she sees the distraction I can recall her first to me and make sure she comes because of the long line.  So I wonder whether I should call her to me when I notice a distraction coming (before she notices), put the long line on, let her run again and when she sees the distraction, I call her back, she of course won't come, but because of the long line is not able to ignore me.  I make her coming back with the long line, praise and if it's a dog I know it's friendly for example I could take the line off and she is allowed to meet the dog. 
Doe that make sense?

Regards

Bagpipe

Hi Bagpipe

A long line is a good tool to have to prevent the wrong habits from developing, but you also need to think about the rewards you are offering the dog.

For example - it's not good calling and reeling her in to you when you see joggers and cyclists, then giving her a boring reward.  When you remove the long line she will go after what she thinks is more rewarding - the joggers and cyclists!

What you have to offer is something EVEN BETTER than joggers and cyclists, in her eyes!

There are a few things to try.  How is she chasing a ball?  Does she play tuggy?  Does she have a high prey drive?  When dogs chase moving things, it is their prey drive which is being aroused and when you call her, if she comes to you, she will probably find it most rewarding for you to reward her through her prey drive. 

For example call her, then as soon as she turns and begins to come to you, get out a special toy which you only use in these situations (like a ball), and throw that in the opposite direction to the joggers and cyclists.

You can also help by running in the opposite direction, waving the ball - her prey drive will then be focussed on you running and not the jogger running.

The purpose of the long line is to allow you to make her come to you the first few times, just so that she can learn what fantastic things you are going to do for her when she gets to you.  Because in order for learning to take place, you need the dog to at least do the behaviour the first few times, so that it can be rewarded and strengthened.  This can be hard without a long line, since how does the dog know it's going to get such a nice reward in that situation if it never has before? 

So - call her - if she doesn't come, take hold of the long line and reel her in while getting out her favourite toy.  I wouldn't call her again even in this situation because she should respond to the first call.

Also, she will learn fastest if you go somewhere with lots of joggers and not just one random one.  That way you can get lots of repetitions of the behaviour and learning will happen faster.  Joggers will also be less novel if there are lots of them and so less interesting!

Hello 1-2-3

Thanks for your helpful answer.  Now I read all these fancy books and so on, but I really thought that when I give her a treat that would be good enough.  Silly me.  Yes, she has a high prey drive and the best reward would be certainly to chase something else instead.  She likes playing tuggy too.  I must confess, that I went recently to a quieter area to avoid cyclists etc.  But I will go this afternoon and do some serious training where I know it is bussier.

Bagpipe

So it's not really the recall that's the problem (yet? ;)) but more a 'leave' command that you want to instill.

I'd be careful using a long line in areas of undergrowth though - all to easy for a dog to get tangled up :(

Personally I'd work on a 'leave' command, starting at home and gradually building up the distractions. Always being prepared to start at square one when introducing different areas or distractions.  It wouldn't do any harm to train your dog to 'sit' when greeting people either - then when she does meet somebody, she'll sit and say hello 'nicely' instead of doing the 'springer bounce'

I think it would be better to work on the recall and not the Leave command, because the recall gives the dog something active to do instead (come to you).  The leave command stops the dog from doing something and gives the dog no action to replace that with, so it would be a lot harder for the dog to resist the temptation.

Hello abck9fran

Hmm, I thought it is rather as recall, not a leave I would like to teach her with the long line.  She knows the leave, which works quite well with things I don't want her to pick up when on a walk, like an empty crisp packet for example.  I agree with 1-2-3 that I rather give her something else to do, like running to me instead of ignoring and doing nothing.  Said that, the sitting down when greeting me or my husband works only as long as we don't make eye contact, the 'springer bounce' as you appropiately call it must be a strong urge for a little springer who just loves to say hello.  As soon we bend down so that she can touch us and get a hello from us, simultanously she jumps towards us.  We get straight again and so on.  Anyway, maybe one day...

I apologies for my original post, I didn't make clear what advise I presicely needed.

Regards

Bagpipe

Different things work for different dogs in different situations.  You could also try a high value treat too, and sometimes give her the high value treat and sometimes the game.

Hi - you have had lots of good advice there but I was wondering if your dog is able to ignore the joggers and cyclists when she is really close to you on a normal lead as if not maybe that would be a first step before progressing to the use of the line? (Just remembering my own experiences with manic puppy who now thankfully ignores fast-moving people - so I should add there is hope!:))

Hello grommet

Up to now (because I didn't have along line) I try to make her sit and let her nibble at a treat while people, cars or so pass us.  But I thought that doesn't help the recall, so with the long line I hope to teach her to come back to me anytime.

It worked well this afternoon and it also means, I don't always have to put her on a short lead if people or dogs approach. 

Bagpipe

Hello 1-2-3

I went this afternoon with the puppy, long line, little bits of fried black pudding and a squeaky soft toy which also functions great as a tuggy to a busier area.  I was chuffed, because it worked much better than I thought.  I met two cyclists and a couple of other dogs.  Unfortunately one was off the lead and run to my puppy to start a play session (well at least we had some dog-dog socialisation too).  But otherwise, I whistled, gave a little tug at the line, she looked round and I produced the toy.  She came running to me and I had her attention undivertedly which meant I could play with her.   I of course will try to produce the toy rather when she is with me, it's all bit of a muddle at first and everything goes so quick that it is difficult to recall the events in a proper order afterwards.

Regards

Bagpipe

That's really great Bagpipe, I would do just that for a bit more. 

The next stage would be for you not to produce the toy until she's actually come back to you.  At the moment it is a bit like bribery "Hey you - look what you'll get if you come here".  Now you need to progress to "Hey you - come here and you might get something but I'm not telling you what until you get here".

But don't rush to this stage yet - bribery is a necessary thing to go through first, so that the dog trusts you enough to come when you don't have anything, she has to have played with the toy many times.

It's also good if you save this particular toy just for these times, so it is special and don't let her have it at home to play with on her own.