Hi everyone, I was just wondering at what point during a bitches season it would be accepable to take her to a show.  My bitch hasn't had her first season yet but her mum came into season last week and i'm worrying that she will probably come in too,  With Crufts only 11 days away. Any advice gratefully received.
Kelly

Hi Kelly,

TBH I wouldn't take a bitch at any stage of her season to Crufts - while it's achievable to do so without upsetting other dogs (and of course the bitch herself) in the last few days or so at some shows (where the size, space and layout of the venue allow you to keep her completely apart from other exhibits) that's certainly not the case with Crufts :(   It could seriously stress out your bitch and with the congested areas in which both sexes of dogs are confined at that show it would be highly unlikely that you could avoid upsetting other exhibits.

Unfortunate timing - but girls will be girls :rolleyes:   Regards, Teri

Not at all, especially crufts where it's so crowded.  Wouldn't take a bitch between day 1 and 21.  It's just not fair on other exhibitors. 

thanks for the quick replies.  I will have to keep my fingers crossed that she doesn't start her season between now and then.:rolleyes:

Unfortantly thats the way things work :( Bitches, who'd have them!

Hi Kelly,

if it's any consolation, one of my girls has either been totally out of coat or in season for all but 2 of 6 Crufts :rolleyes: - and one of them she only made it because it was postponed that year due to Foot & Mouth outbreak!   She ain't going this year either - season due again - and I know she's very much the type our judge this year goes for (and she's sitting on 2 CCs :rolleyes: ).  Unfortunately we have to take the rough with the smooth with girls (note to self, "stick with the boys" :D )

regards, Teri

Hi Teri
I know what you mean about sticking to boys I,m seriously considering a boy if I have another dog .
My girl is going to miss Crufts as she will be sixteen or seventeen days by then people have said oh take her it ,ll be alright  I wouldn,t dream of it upsetting her and all the other poor dogs last year was her first time at crufts and I thought it was stresfull enough in itself without adding to it.
But why do they always look so beautiful when they have to stay home/ its just not fair only consolation is we will make the Agricultural shows this year that we had to miss last yearfor the same reason.

>But why do they always look so beautiful when they have to stay home

Aaaargh, tell me about it :rolleyes:   Whereas boys - one moult a year, no seasons - bliss :P  (unless they moult in March of course!)

My bitch probably won't ever qualify, though my boy has. But don't people think that if you have to miss it due to seasons, you should be allowed to go next year without qualifying again? It's kind of like having a puppy that qualified but is too young to compete, they automatically qualify for the following year instead. :-)

I don't think that would be very fair on anyone else - after all any "condition" could be used as a pass for the following year whether a natural one such as seasons or coat change or someone's dog being poorly, lame etc.  It's just s#ds law with bitches and something most of us just accept it.  In any event, most good quality dogs get the opportunity to gain their SB number so qualifying isn't really the issue.

Now if they only held Crufts in December or May I'd be a happy bunny but then that would only suit one of my lot :rolleyes: :D

You'd have to prove that your bitch was in season, of course.

I think this will always be an ongoing issue it is unfair that when you have paid to go to a show and you cannot go because your bitch is in season is definately a nightmare and of course you are out of pocket  :rolleyes:

Yes and they are never predictable enough.  If you don't enter they are then late and you miss that shwo,a dn then have to miss the ones when she does come in.

Then of course they loose theri coats in between so you really are up agains it if your bitches are out of coat when the majority of shows are on.

We have 18 sets of CC's in our breed, but most of them are from Bath until Richmond.

We have 18 sets of CC's in our breed, but most of them are from Bath until Richmond.

First year with CCs for us this year, 8 sets (or rather 6 sets and 2 singles), from Crufts to Darlington so a period of just 6 months, so I know I have no chance whatsoever of qualifying my bitch for next year as she's just been mated and won't be back in coat etc by September.

My bitch probably won't ever qualify, though my boy has. But don't people think that if you have to miss it due to seasons, you should be allowed to go next year without qualifying again?

I know somebody who ALWAYS blames seasons if her bitch DOESN'T win, eg. "oh she's out of sorts, just been in season" -used that excuse 3 times within a few months one year. Yet that particular bitch NEVER misses any show at all so never ever seems to be in season in reality, and I strongly suspect she has in fact been spayed and the owner has kept quiet..........

At crufts 2 years ago with our Neapolitan. An exhibitor took his 2 male neos ( both proven stud dogs ) and a bitch on heat. When they came out of the ring the males had a terrible fight near children. Several people got bitten as a result. People lodged complaints to the k.c which were ignored totally. This idiot had total disregard for peoples safety and his desire to show at crufts took priority.  Total idiot!!!  People do unfortunately take on heat bitches no matter what. They are thoughtless!!

Just going of track slightly does anyone with a bitch ever use anything to stop them coming in season, I heard some people at a show once talking about a contraceptive injection but didn,t know the people involved so wasn,t included in the conversation.
I don,t think it would ever be an option for my girls as I believe things should be left to nature as much as possible but I was just wondering what everyone else thinks about it.
Sharon

Like you it's something I would never do - I have heard of number bitches failing to have a normal season or having fertility problems following these.  Likewise, at least one forum member has used them and confirmed no problems and indeed had large, healthy litters following being mated the season after using these so clearly they don't always have adverse reactions.

However IMO, nature should be allowed to take it's course.  Seasons happen at inconvenient times - it's just part and parcel of owning an entire bitch :)

regards, Teri 

I agree Terry.When you buy a bitch you know what you are getting into....its one of the reasons all my show dogs are male LOL
Archer

Hi I was quite surprised to read that you dont take bitches to Crufts in season, a lot of people in our breed show bitches in season at Crufts I remember last year seeing a few and my dogs nose was twitching he he.

I have always been told dont show them at open shows, but you can at championship shows. Is it a general no then or does it vary from breed to breed ? As I said I know no end of people that show their dogs at champ shows and crufts with bitches in season.
Rachel

It's generally frowned on to take an in-season bitch to any shows, not just open shows. In fact it's even worse at champ shows, for the dog who may be benched right beside such a bitch and is likely to be badly distracted. Think of all the thousands of dogs at Crufts - how unfair is it to try to nobble half the competition? It could be the people you know who made my boy's day a misery a couple of years ago. :(

Edit: And I used to show bitches - the only time I took an in-season bitch to a show was when she started her season on the morning of the show - and it was an outdoor show. To my mind it's a form of cheating, and now that I've shown dogs I'm firmly convinced that's the case.

And just think of the risks involved. I remember an outdoor breed champ.show once, I was followed all weekend long by one particular male dog -who incidentally is VERY well trained, but who almost pulled his owner over to get to my girl. Turned out she was just about to start her season as she came in the following day. The dog knew! (Funnily enough we ended up mating her to this dog a few years later!) At another show I had taken her despite her being on day one of her season -never again -another male dog again so strong his owner simply could not hold him would jump at ME at every opportunity even when I had put my bitch away in the car because I smelled of her. With big strong dogs, say you arrive at a show with a bitch fully in season, just how would you stop big male dogs from jumping on the bitch and even mating her?

Unfortunately it's all down to personal choice.  I say unfortunately as IMO bitches in season should be left at home. 
a) It's not fair on the other exhibitors - not just for your breed but any who will be in that ring after you - including the following three days if you happen to be on the first day.  Plus ANY male dog that's entered - your bitch will have to wee somewhere and any male dog who sniffs where she's been will know there's a bitch about somewhere.
b) Your bitch may look superb (mine always look their best coming into or during a season) but they won't FEEL at their best. 
It's just one of those things I'm afraid.  I always think sportsmanship amd (most importantly) the dogs health and mental wellbeing should come before the lure of a bit of coloured cardboard.

Debs

Hi Rachel,

I'm generally of the "never say never" view to many things but in season bitches at Crufts is definitely an exception.  There is no space in the venue for the exhibits' comfort at the best of times without the distress to an in-season bitch herself (as well as possible infection) and it is IMO very inconsiderate to others showing males :(

I'm prepared to be open minded about other championship shows (but only outdoor events) where:-

(a) the set up of the show allows the in season bitch to remain away from the benching, exercise, groming areas and also kept a safe distance from any rings until due to be shown

(b) the bitch is not in full season, or nearly so

Ive always owned and exhibited entire dogs and bitches at the same time so am fully aware of what problems can arise :)  I have exhibited a bitch at a General champ show when she was in the last few days of her season.  It was at WELKS and my breed was on the last day and the only CC breed in the ring.  There were two other non-CC varieties of the same breed in afterwards and it certainly didn't put any of them off ;)  That particular venue allows plenty of room away from the show area to groom and exercise dogs without interfering with other exhibits and also we sat away from the ring with her and our other dogs (including a male!) in cages.

There are not many venues where it is well enough laid out to allow for the above but as we all pay the same entry fee and the KC have no rules against the showing of in season bitches, it's up to the individual.

At Crufts however I would not condone it - as I've explained further up the thread this has caused a bitch which has had a very successful show career in limited appearances to miss the opportunity of competing.  In the interests of good sportsmanship, I just have to reconcile myself to that fact :)

Regards, Teri

Hi Teri
I can see the point of course.  I just had to ask as I have honestly seen bitches shown in season at champshows. I asked my friend when I first started showing about showing with bitches in season and she told me it was fine, just to keep the bitch out of the way of dogs. But we try not to show them in season because I have to travel with an entire dog too, so I leave her at home. It would make his life a misery.  I think that a lot of people just dont realise that a bitch in season should not be shown.  Its a shame really the KC dont put a rule into the rules to advise against showing bitches in season. 
Rachel

Hi again Rachel,

TBH I prefer that there isn't a KC rule against it as some unscrupulous folks (and let's face it, there are some out there :rolleyes: ) would either make out the bitch had only just "come in" when it entered the show ground or it may promote the regular use of meds to prevent/delay seasons - something which I personally think is a dangerous practice.

I think in the main most exhibitors are sporting enough to know when their girl(s) should stay at home and on the odd occasion that they do take an in season bitch it's more likely to be during the last few days only.

I believe good sportsmanship has to embrace a certain amount of tolerance too - it's just that the sheer scale of  Crufts and the cramped environment for our dogs makes taking practical and courteous measures against interfering with anyone else impossible IMO.

regards, Teri

I have freinds in another breed where people quite openly take in season bitches to shows.  It is a large guarding breed too, but they more ofteh than not have seperate judges/rings at champ shows.

To be honest I wouldn't take a Bitch if mine in till after DAY 28!!! Somehow my Breeding(not MY Breeding, but the breeding of my bitches!) seem to be ripe at day 21 and would wait a little longer!!!

Well I can confirm that people do take bitches in season to even open shows in my breed, as I Was in puppy class at the weekend and the bitch in front of me was in season. My dog dived into her vulva, and I thought thats odd he never pays any attention, then I saw the blood.
Rachel

....dived into her vulva...  I got a very strange mental picture there

Snap Brainless- so did I :-D

Stacey x

Ha ha. Sorry, I meant from a perfect standing pose, he moved his head forward quickly, went to have a good sniff quickly. Being the first time he has ever paid any attention to a bitch as he is just a baby and so far not even been interested in my own bitches.