Hi
Never been on here before so please excuse me if I make/say any stupid comments etc.  I am shortly going to be the proud mum of a Golden Retriever puppy.  I have had a dog before but quite a way back and am now starting to panic about what food I should be getting!!

I have spoken with the breeder who ran through what they will feed the pups on but I was too confused to take it all in so she promised to write it all down when I visit the pups next week (she also said that she had known pups raised on the wrong type of puppy food and as a consequence hasn't reached their full potential weight or size wise..)  We don't intent to show nor breed but I want to make sure she is healthy.  I've read through all the posts here but it has confused me even more!!  I even went to Pets at Home to have a look but it didn't help.  I was planning on a dry food diet eventually, and hadn't even considered things like liver and that!  Should this be something that my pup should have regularly? or keep as a treat??  All the web sites that I have visited just keep going on about how we should keep to the breeders food for the first few days and gradually introduce the new diet over the next few weeks.  With my previous dog (when I was 11 and that was quite a few years ago!!) he basically ate what we gave him which was tinned food and occassionally what we had for tea!!

Hope someone can advise?

If you are happy with the condition of the litter and the adult dogs owned by the breeder and I can't imagine you would be buying a puppy if you weren't :) I would say stick with what she recommends.  You should be given a written diet sheet anyway because this is part of the KC code of ethics for all breeders registering their litters with them.  If she is a member of the breed club and has done all their recommended health screening etc I think you can be reasonably assured she has enough of an interest in the future of her stock to make sure she is giving you sound advise.  By all means change if it suits you to later on but don't be driven to do so by what others tell you on web sites, there are some pretty whacky ones out there :) 

Your breeder sounds as though she knows what she's talking about and also wants her puppy to achieve its full potential so I wouldn't think about changing the food.  Just keep to the feeding program that your breeder is going to give you in writing when you visit next week.

She's the one who knows how to grow good Golden Retrievers!!

Hi

Unlike some others (with whom I agree to differ), I don't believe that all commercial dog foods are equally good for dogs. 

I would suggest that you speak to your breeder and find out what food she uses.  Usually the breeder will give you a small amount of the food she is using to take away with you (about a week's worth).  Even if you decide not to feed this food, I would recommend that you keep feeding it for that first week, because the puppy will have a lot of other new things to deal with so you can help with some continuity by feeding the same food until she's settled in a bit.

After that, if you want to change, then you should feel free to.

Personally, if you want to feed a dry complete food, I would recommend the following:

www.wellbeloved.co.uk

www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk

www.ardengrange.com

For a puppy you might find the James Wellbeloved the best choice.  It comes in 4 flavours and the puppy food is available in each of these flavours - Burns and Arden Grange only come in chicken for puppies.

"For a puppy you might find the James Wellbeloved the best choice."

We found that the James Wellbeloved Puppy Food has the most tiny pieces (smaller than Burns Puppy Bites!) and even our Sheltie borked on it   The Junior and Adult foods have much more 'reasonably' sized pieces though and of course you've got your large breed food which has good size kibble for the bigger dogs :)

We mix Burns Puppy Bites with JWB Junior at the mo (our girl decided to put herself onto Adult food when she waws 6 months old and its been a battle ever since to find a puppy food she likes but we got there eventually!).  The Puppy Bites only come in the one flavour and its pretty darn expensive stuff, but the bigger the bag, the 'cheaper' it is (in comparison to how much they charge for a 2Kg one that is).  It is blummin good stuff though

JWB offer the largest choice of 'flavours' and is much more easily obtained - Pets At Home (and other local pet shops) stock it whereas Burns has to be purchased from a pet food supplier or the internet.

I've not personally used Arden Grange but I've heard its equally as good as Burns and JWB.  Also there's Wafcol, but the flavours are quite limited.

Initially I'd suggest you just carry on with what the breeder has weaned the pups onto and see how your Goldie pup develops on it :)

Thank you! I think I remember the breeder mentioning the wellbeloved range.  Anyway I shall be meeting the mum and her pups next weekend - I have already met the breeder and this is the mums 3rd litter so met a son and daughter from her other litters as well, which the breeder kept!

Just visited Pets at Home again and had a good look at the JWB range but as I don't really know one good make from another....!  I think I am just getting a little too excited about our new addition and it will be a few weeks yet (hopefully) before she arrives!  The breeder seems really nice and went through everything that I could think of and said that it was best to continue with her diet for a while and see how the pup gets on.  Just one thing, she did mention now I come to think of it that the mum was lactose intolerant so it was best to avoid milk products for the pups (she was going to be feeding them scrambled egg as part of their diet but made with a lactose free milk??)  She said that the pups may not be intolerant but to be on the safe side and to avoid any messy poos!  This won't cause a problem will it?

There isn't usually any lactose/milk ingredients in most dog foods, so you shouldn't have a problem there.  There are some treats, such as Pedigree Denta Rask, which are made with milk and milk derivatives, so avoid those.  Just read the ingredients and avoid.  And obviously don't give the pup milk either.  Many dogs actually have problems digesting the lactose in milk, it's not unusual. 

There is one flavour of the JWB that has tiny pieces, and the rest of the flavours have regular sized pieces.  I can't remember which is the one that is tiny.

My last pup thrived on a combination of JWB puppy (NOT the tiny pieces) and raw.

As for what to feed when you get the pup home, follow the diet sheet the breeder gives you and try not to worry.

Best of luck

Wendy

Don't you think it is a bit cheeky to recommend your choices over and above the breeder's? If I were selling the puppy in question I'd be somewhat miffed at someone who doesn't have a clue about my breed, my puppies or my adults trying to dictate what should or should not be fed.

Jas....
The way I read it, the other posters had said to follow what the breeder fed and recommended.  Then IF they decide to change it that's up to them.  Maybe I got hold of the wrong end of the stick...

Debs

Debs, the others yes, but that is not what 123 said.

Quote: "After [one week], if you want to change, then you should feel free to. Personally, if you want to feed a dry complete food, I would recommend the following:"

Personally speaking, I want my puppy owners to take my advice on what the pup is fed on at least until it reaches adulthood. So far they always have. I would be most annoyed if someone on an internet board undermined my advice. Especially when we do not know how many dogs they have/have had, of what breeds, or how many litters of what breed they have successfully reared. And by reared I do mean following them up with advice and help until they are happy healthy adults and beyond.

No, I don't believe I am recommending my choices "over and above" the breeder's - because I don't actually know what the breeder has recommended here!  For all I know it could be Burns, JWB or Arden Grange!! 

Not sure why you think I don't have a clue about your breed.....bit presumptious, isn't that?

Out of all the pups I've had, not one of them are/were still on the food their breeder fed them.  (If they were, they would be on Bakers and Pedigree Chum, amongst others.) 

In purchasing a puppy you have the right to educate yourself as to the various dog foods available out there and make your own decision about what to feed them.  You are not obliged to continue to feed the same food the breeder feeds.  In fact I think it would be a bit blind and irresponsible to just put your head down, do no research and do everything as your breeder has done - from food through to everything else.  If after your research etc, you decide to continue to feed what the breeder feeds, that's another thing.  I think there are probably many others on this board who have decided to feed another food besides what is fed by their breeder and presumably they received food recommendations from other dog owners, did their own research and made their decisions much in this way.  I'm a bit offended actually, by the suggestion we should all be zombies and not think for ourselves!

You don't know what the breeder wants the pup to be fed on yet you push your own choices.

Not sure why you think I don't have a clue about your breed.....bit presumptious, isn't that?

Tell me what dogs you have/have had, of what breeds, and what litters you have reared, and it turns out that you have experience of my breed then I'll apologise.

Sorry, I choose not to reveal personal details about myself online.

Showing, training and competing, and the dog world in general, is bitchy enough as it is, without things said on line affecting relationships in person when I meet people at events.  Many arguments explode on here which wouldn't in real life, were things spoken (this being a good example), and for example, were you (or anyone here) to find yourself next to me at a show, I wouldn't want any of this to linger over.

Instead, I hope that I am judged by the advice I give here and would hope that my knowledge is evident in that.  If not, so be it. 

It is a bit low to try to silence someone you disagree with by trying to question who they are, far better to discuss whatever you disagree with.

you as the owner should be able to freely choose which food you want your pup to be fed- as long as you do it gradually- ie over a week.
by suggesting what foods to feed the pup isnt harmful at all- anyway that is what the original poster asked isnt it? its not undermining either- just helpful!!

i rate nature diet/menu, jwb, burns, arden grange.

I had always intended on following the breeders advice, especially as I will readily admit I don't know much when it comes to raising dogs etc which is why I have been doing some research and hence my original posting.  I just want to ensure that my puppy is raised the best way possible and given the best start in life with her food.

I truly welcome anyone's personal advice or comments with their own experiences on particular foods that they can give me.  Your recommendations on certain products certainly helps to narrow down the vast and confusing selection on offer and makes it easier to choose from and I will bear these in mind when the time comes - if it does - as I would still be following the breeders advice until I feel confident enough to slowly introduce a change.

Kindest regards.

Why would you even want to change the breeder's food when you don't even know what it is and you don't know much about nutrition?????

I would be really upset if someone I trusted with one of my pups wasn't willing to listen to my experience.  In fact I have been know to refuse to let a puppy go to a lady who wasn't listening to be before she'd even got her puppy!

"I had always intended on following the breeders advice [...]"

As I've read it the other poster is purely looking for some helpful advice on the rather confusing mass market of dog food available, and in my opinion is doing right!  The breeder of each individual pup can never tell how well that pup is going to develop on the food it has been weaned onto - it is the new owners that will discover that.  So its all fair and good saying "Why would you even want to change the breeder's food [...]" when, IMO, all the poster is doing is asking for food advice incase their pup doesn't develop as best it could on the one it is being weaned onto by the breeder :)

I agree that one way of feeding doesn't suit all pups.  And if the recommended doesn't suit a particular pup, then an experienced breeder is the person most suitable to recommend an alternative!! :D

A good breeder knows their lines and over the years will know good and bad foods for their breed.

Im sorry you feel like that but I have never said that I would go against what my breeder recommended and I most certainly have been listening to her which is why as peewee, 123 and others have already said, I was asking for others opinions and doing my research so that I am a responsible owner.

As already posted, I would only change the diet once I felt confident which again is why I originally posted so a big thank you to all those who have provided me with the various information/advice.

About changing the diet .... I was only going to think about it about after a few months, not the week I brought the pup home.  I am very aware of what my breeder is recommending which is why I fully intend on sticking to it including the socialising, training, feeding etc.

I certainly haven't gone into this lightly and been dazzled by the cute photos of GR pups etc.  I know what hard work it is going to be, I have researched getting a puppy for over a year now with a goldie in mind from day one.  I have looked into other breeds but felt that a goldie would settle well into my family life (I have 4 children).  I have read countless books, clicked on numerous websites and asked as many people as I can for their advice and I thought that posting on here was also a responsible thing to do and it was only since reading previous questions on here that I thought I would post one myself as I was a little confused with people feeding liver etc (please read my OP) and was this something that I had overlooked in the diet?

kerrib

I would be careful about feeding liver - for some pups and dogs it can have a laxative effect if fed in too great a quantity.  The only liver I feed is dried out in the oven and used as training treats - I don't feed it routinely or as part of a meal.

It sounds like you're approaching this the right way, if you ask me!  If your breeder feeds one of those foods I mentioned above, I would stay on it, if I were you.  If they feed Pedigree or Bakers, definitely change off those :( .  Other foods are a grey area and up to you to decide whether you continue to feed or switch off them.

Thank you so much 123  It is just so weird when you write on this forum and peoples opinions differ so much which is okay but some comments can certainly put you off posting anything else on here and the conversation can go away from the original query which doesn't really get answered.

I just cant wait till I see the pups and hopefully everything with them will be okay.

Regards

Hi Kerrib,

I just thought I'd put my tuppance worth in since I'm the proud new 'mum' of a 16 week old golden too (congratulations by the way - they're absolutely fanastic little pups!)

My pup was on pedigree, and after some extensive searching on the net, I decided I didn't want to carry on feeding this to my pup. Whilst I'm sure pups will get on very well on this, I wanted to make a balanced decision on what would be the absolute best to feed her and after onetwothree suggested JWB I asked around some of my of dog friends what they thought of it. Not one person said anything other than it was an excellent food and now my pup's thriving on it. I totally understand that what might suit my golden might not suit yours, but all I can say is that her coat is in beautiful condition, no loose poos (and regular - which helped us in house training) she's got enough energy, doesn't itch, hasn't been sick and basically growing at a steady pace. She's looking study and healthy so I can't say enought good things!

Good luck with your new pup!

Karen

I would be careful changing foods, Fagan was on Beta when I got him, after a week I changed him on to Burns, he lost alot of weight and when his breeders saw him age 12 weeks they were visibly shocked, I did feel really bad about it as this was a puppy that they had so carefully and lovingly reared and I had (obviously without realising it) and I had damaged alot of their hard work.  I changed his diet and he soon put weight back on but I will never forget the guilt I felt about that :(

If you really dont want to stick with the breeders food I would go for Arden Grange or Autarky.

Just because people breed dogs,doesnt automatically make them proficient in canine nutrition :) Sure they could be feeding something their dogs do well on,however the new owner may change to something that the dog does a hundred times better on :) The breeder may only have ever fed her dogs on something like purina,and would have no clue how her dogs would do on something else. I agree with 123 recommendations,if the breeder feeds one of those,i will fall off my chair and you are very lucky to have found her :)  Its the rare breeder who is able to afford or is willing to pay the price to feed their brood on the good foods such as JWB,Burdens,Arden grange etc.

Just because people breed dogs,doesnt automatically make them proficient in canine nutrition

Its the rare breeder who is able to afford or is willing to pay the price to feed their brood on the good foods such as JWB,Burdens,Arden grange etc.

Maybe that's the difference between a good breeder and a puppy producer???  A good breeder will feed what they consider is the best food regardless of cost.

I must mix in exalted breeder circles then

As a breeder I would be very surprised if any of the pups were still on what they were reared on, or what I regularly feed my adults on.

I tend to go on the basis of giving the new owners choices and feeding in such a way that pups can adapt to their owners chosen feeding preferences.

I mix several different dry complete puppy foods from weaning, and the owners then have already a choice of 3 or four foods (two middle price range and two premium) and I also let the pups have meat and puppy milk formula (for thsoe Barfers and traditional feeders out there) and they will also get some of the moist prepared foods I find more acceptable (pouches and tinned tripe mix).

I am of a view that dogs can thrive on a variety of feeding regimes and food types, and prefer to feed so that any changes have minimum effect on the pups.

"I am of a view that dogs can thrive on a variety of feeding regimes and food types [...]"

*as they'd say in the House of Commons* Here here! ;)

I am of a view that dogs can thrive on a variety of feeding regimes and food types

That I am in agreement with, though for fast growing pups I have my preferences. But I take enormous care with my litters and would like to think that my puppy people would take my advice above that of someone on the internet who will not even in the vaguest way indicate their experience of my breed or indeed of any breed.

I agree.  If I am prepared to travel 408 miles each way to use what I consider is the most suitable stud dog, then spend 8 weeks on my hands and knees with minimum sleep, feeding what I consider to be the best food (of course we'll not all agree on that one:)) carefully rearing and socialising, I would be most upset if each and every one of the pups didn't have the chance of reaching their full potential (even if only pets - which I consider to be one of the most important dog jobs!) because the new owner didn't listen to my advice on feeding, socialising, exercising etc.
PLEASE talk to your breeder before getting confused with the wide choice out there and taking advice from people who you don't know from Adam on the internet.

Jas - Dunno whether that comment was aimed at me or not, but I wasn't "recommend[ing] [my] choices over and above the breeder's" at all!  I was merely answering the question posed by the original poster

I also stated at the end of my post this:

"Initially I'd suggest you just carry on with what the breeder has weaned the pups onto and see how your Goldie pup develops on it :)"

Note I didn't specify any time fram whatsoever as "initially" to me means the settling in period for a dog which is atleast 3 months :)

Why do topics on food always end up this way It can't help the OP in any way.

End up like what,Liberty?

End up being no chuffin help to the  OP sara, thats what. Everyone feels they feed their dog the best food, which am sure they do, but no one food will suit all dogs.

>Its the rare breeder who is able to afford or is willing to pay the price to feed their brood on the good foods such as JWB,Burdens,Arden grange etc.

It isnt all about cost though, some of the "premium" foods which alot of breeders rear on (pedigree, ekanuba, purina) are much more expensive that JWB etal but im some peoples opinion arent as good.

You've been looking in different shops to me then ;)  JWB, Burns, Wafcol, Arden Grange etc are loads more expensive!  When you consider that Pedigree, Eukanuba & the likes are sold in Supermarkets they have to cost less to appeal to the supermarket sweepers (which to be honest is one of my concerns about JWB wanting to market at the supermarkets as somethings gotta give :rolleyes: ).  Anyway, last time I checked (and these are where I can get them at the cheapest!) a 2Kg bag of Burns Puppy Bites was approx. £7.50, JWB Junior approx. £6.50, Pedigree Puppy & Eukanuba approx. £5.00

:D

I worked in a petshop a good few years ago and Eukanuba was much more expensive than stuff like JWB, you couldnt even buy it in supermarkets then, and pedigree advance or whatever they call it now was in the same price range.  Also bear in mind that breeders often get discount on their choice of food from the manufacturers.

I havent looked at the price of complete food for years because I feed BARF so to be fair im not really bothered, I just think its unfair to basically say breeders cant afford / dont want to afford to feed the best to their pups.

The imported foods such as eukanuba,science plan and nutro will always be more expensive,due to the freight charges etc.

not in the shops peewee goes to :)

> I just think its unfair to basically say breeders cant afford / dont want to afford to feed the best to their pups.<

I dont get what you mean Unfair to whom,the pups? :)

Well its hardly going to be the feed seller is it, or are you being particularly obtuse

>Its the rare breeder who is able to afford or is willing to pay the price to feed their brood on the good foods such as JWB,Burdens,Arden grange etc.

I think this statment is unfair. I doubt there are many breeders who think "I will feed this crap food because im not willing to pay for a decent food" decent breeders feed the food they feel/know/have experienced is right for their dogs.

No, my comments were directed to 123.

I believe it is advisable to follow what the breeder uses for a few reasons really, the puppy is used to that feed and also the breeder knows what suits her puppies as the mother would have been fed on the same brand so it would be a regular feeding routine for the breeder. If changing a puppies diet it is important as already mentioned that it should be given gradually by introducing it into the puppies feed but I would highly recommend the puppy to settle first before changing its diet.

Commercial foods I highly recommend are Hill's Nature's Best and James Wellbeloved both very desirable I tend to use a little of each in my feeding routine and my girls thrive on it. :-)

Just sticking my oar in here.

Having just said goodbye to the last of my puppies and sent them off with enough food for a month (Arden Grange not cheap) I dispair when anyone advocates an instant change to the diet.

Sadly on of my new owners has been advised by the vet to change to Science Plan, on the first visit to the vet, and not to continue with the food they have been weaned on from 3 and a half weeks.  Arden Grange suits the breed very well whereas many other foods make my breed more hyper than they already are.  Such a shame.

I dont think any of us claim to be experts in nutrition we just watch and learn and have the benifit of experience and the raising of the litter from day one.

Absolutely!!!!!!  If an experienced breeder has seen the results of a certain food over a period of years on their dogs/breed, I can't begin to see why someone would look on the internet, where anyone can say anything, before even knowing what food the breeder is using and discussing their thoughts with her! :rolleyes:

Val
I'm really sorry if you disagree with that but NOT ONCE have I said that I would go against what she recommends!

Please read my OP!  I visited this forum just looking for advice as I want to ensure the best for my new pup.  Like I originally said, I was planning a dry diet EVENTUALLY.  I have already said that I didn't know an awful lot and was looking for others ideas of what was good or not good and then when I visit the breeder in a couple of days I can have some idea of what she is talking about and discuss with her whats  best.

Surely this is being responsible????    From what you said :I can't begin to see why someone would look on the internet, where anyone can say anything, before even knowing what food the breeder is using and discussing their thoughts with her!it seems that you expect a new owner to visit the breeder having done no research whatsoever, therefore not able to ask any questions??!

I thought that was the whole point of these forums?  Apologies if I have got this wrong.