>When did this become about me critisising breeders criteria?

You said:

>Well then we shall steer well away from YOUR criteria.

That reads as criticism to me ... ;)

:D It's a bit hard to see it any other way!

Mmmm - Whatever you say. 

>I think I need help   When did this become about me critisising breeders criteria?  I gave a different angle for the OP to consider as a full time worker with dogs.All I am asking is please dont rule someone out on the grounds that they work full time.  If as a breeder you want to do exactly that then that is up to you but you could be losing out on an excellent home for your pup....Thats all. <

Think that is what most people meant Rozzer or I did anyway.   :-)

The poster posted then a few jumped right in and said no way as far as I am concerned, and without looking at the whole picture.   Unfortunately or fortunately life isn't just straight forward.

Heaven help the world if we had a set of rules and they were never altered or bent. The country would be at a stand still.

I'm not running the country I'm homing my puppies, nobody elected me to do that so nobody else can claim they have a right to a say in it.
I'm getting a bit fed up with this :(.  Like Rozzer I have exercised my right to give my opinion on this subject but I have crisised nobody elses criteria that is their business nor have I critisised anyone over their working hours and yet you and others think it is your business to crisise my choices.
I think in terms of answering the OP request for what they should do posters should just stick to stating what they would do and leave other people to do the same.

In the end we all have a criteria that we work to when deciding where one of our pups should go.  Some are more stringent than others but just because this is the case doesn't mean that we're in the wrong.  I know loads of people who sell puppies to people with young children - again this is something I don't do.  I also wouldn't sell to anyone who didn't have access to an enclosed or safe area for the dog to run free (I breed hounds so they NEED to gallop IMO).  Of course people's circumstances change - unforseen things happen which totally alters the way that dog must live - or indeed result in rehoming - but at the time that puppy leaves my house the owners would have to fit my (yes very strict) criteria.  It's simple really - I bred the dogs - I choose where they go :)

Debs

>It's simple really - I bred the dogs - I choose where they go

Exactly, and it's hard to believe you can be critisised for have too strict a level of criteria :)

Exactly, and it's hard to believe you can be critisised for have too strict a level of criteria

Well as the majory of rehomes I've had for dogs I've bred have been caused through marriage break-ups I shall no longer sell to married couples anymore.   Likewise those who live in towns because they cannot provide the stimulus the breed for I own (& occasionally breed) in city parks......see I can make up my own strict level of criteria too.      However, I chose to judge the individual not on the hours they have to work, whether they are married, have young children, where they live etc.  but on the individuals circumstances.   No-one can forsee what the future will bring anyone when we sell a pup. 

I know of someone who would fool the best of you on this board for plausibility on being the most caring owner in the world.   Owned a dog, countryside walks, large garden with a detached cottage etc.  but this person is also very handy with their feet & hands on dogs too.   

I shall bow out gracefully from this topic, I've stated what I have too.   I personally know a few other members on this board who work f/t too and all are great dog owners too.   It's just sad to see that some would be so tunnel visioned as to cocoon every f/t worker into the same pigeon hole as an inadequate owner.   I would love just to lounge about all day and not have to work but until I marry a rich husband, win the lottery or retire, then I shall just have to work to pay for my house, car & bills.

It's just sad to see that some would be so tunnel visioned as to cocoon every f/t worker into the same pigeon hole as an inadequate owner.   I would love just to lounge about all day and not have to work but until I marry a rich husband, win the lottery or retire, then I shall just have to work to pay for my house, car & bills.

As has been stated before we're not talking about f/t workers - we're talking about "empty house all day" people.  I work f/t (well, almost, I work 36 hours a week) but I work 3 12 hour night shifts a week and hubby works days - purely so that the dogs are never left for long periods of time.  Of course we go shopping without them - of course we go out for the evening without them - but they're never left for more than 3 hours at a time.

No-one can forsee what the future will bring anyone when we sell a pup.

That's exactly what I said in my previous post.... 

I really don't see what the problem is here.  Your say your dogs are fine so why get so uptight about my personal preferences???

Debs

So making a criteria about working hours is tunnel vision but making a criteria about married couples or town dwellers is not?  Anyway, it is immaterial, as I recognise your right to make whatever criteria you choose I just would like to be granted the same :)

Isabel please read further on.......

However, I chose to judge the individual not on the hours they have to work, whether they are married, have young children, where they live etc.  but on the individuals circumstances.

But I also read

>I shall no longer sell to married couples anymore

so I did not know which contradiction to take ;)
but as I said, it is immaterial as I don't believe either or us have the right to set the others criteria for them.  If your criteria is flexible thats fine but I am choosing to set mine and stick to it because, personally, I feel I have gone to the trouble of thinking hard about it in the first place and don't see the point of spending loads of time getting to know someone outwith my criteria and face the danger of being too soft because I have got to know them and maybe regret it later, which is what happened with the puppy that did come back, or be wasting their time in the first place.  As I said to Blue I am not a democracy neither am I a philanthropic society.  I may feel sorry for people that have trouble persuading breeders to let them have a puppy because of their working hours but my puppies are my main concern and why would I relax my requirements when I have never had any difficulty finding good, rural, outdoor loving home that are able to provide more company too.  That's surely every thing said now :)

Rozzer, I think your reply answers the original posters question in a sensible balanced way.

Good luck with your Afghans, that is some acheivement going for the KC gold award.

im working roughly 30 hours a week, my boyfriend works more but is home inbetween shifts- for say 30mins to 3 hours-depends on the day.
Our dog is well balanced and seems happy with our setup. She gets brekky and morning garden play with one of us- usually me, then a sleep on couch, then lunch time play, more sleep and cat cuddles/play fights, then garden, then tea. She only gets one walk a day- as she has bone disease and cant do too much.
I worried as we do work different shifts and thought that this would confuse her, but she knows when we leave that she just settles down, knowing that when we come home we will pay her attention- by walkies, or play etc- so she doesnt worry, i think!! but seriously she is a happy little girl, i wish i didnt have to work but im young and need to so i can set up a lovely home for out little family.
As someone said before- you just need to think 'doggy'!

Hi Wendy
Both my hubby and I work full time and we have 2 cavs. I'm a teacher so when we got the first it was tge 2nd week of the summer hols and we actually asked the breeder to keep her until then so I could be at ome with her. When i went back to work my mum-in-law poped in at lunchtime to let her out. When we got the second one it was at the start of the easter break and my mum in law did the same when i went back. Undfortunatley i now work further away  (about 40 mins) but as soon as i can get out (usually just after the bell) i go and take the girls straight out and play with them til OH cames homes. Then he does playing and I have to start marking :rolleyes:
They also get a morning walk. I love my dogs so much and would be completely deverstated if the breeders had said no. It is a personal thing but just cause people work full time doesn't always mean they won't be great owners.
Good luck with the decission
Marie
PS AM actually applying for a job just 5 miles away so I can be closer so wish me luck!

Good Luck Marie!  I would love to spend every minute of every day with my hounds :)  I have been off all week this past week but my two sleep from 9-1 - oh and then 2-5pm :D 
Sarah ;)

Just from my point of view and to add to the debate as I am at the moment sorting through good homes for my pups.  When you have these sweet little pups that I am raising with my bitch they become part of the family, they love to play and be with me and their siblings and I want homes where the pups will continue to be stimulated and played with. They don't go off on their own and sleep on their own or play on their own, they like company whether it is me or my bitch.  So for me the thought of passing my pup to a home where they would then be left alone for hours on end whilst their new owner is at work is no good, it is not what the pup would choose given the choice, pups want company and playmates, I know my pups would rather be with company.

Dogs will adapt to any situation and I know in this day and age it is different and harder to keep a dog the way most of us would like, but when you breed a litter I think the feeling is different and a more maturnal feel than the person who buys a dog, so I know I am very protective that my pups go to a home for full and proper socialising, where when they open their eyes after a nap they have someone there to play and cuddle with.  When they are older they settle into a routine but for a pup I would never want that way of life.

That seems a very sensible and rational approach, Carrington, and I can't see that anyone could object to any breeder doing what they think is best for their puppies.
:)

It's impossible to generalise because for every devoted dog owner that works full time there is certainly to be a hopeless home all day owner. But they are your pups, Wendy and at the end of the day you should go with your instincts. You aren't obligated to sell any of them to anyone who makes an enquiry and whilst you might well miss out on excellent potential homes for your pups, there's little point in worrying about hypothetical situations.

I agree with what has been said but would you consider full time workers who already had a dog and where taking 3 weeks off to settle in the new pup and made arrangements for other visitors for a period aftre that. I know the pups became a large part of the family and I've seen how said owners can be when then hand them over. I'm just trying to say that some of full timers who love and cherish our dogs aren't necessarially unsuitable.  I have no children and my dogs are a huge part of my life and I really can't imagine my life without them.  Actually I can't remember what it was like without them :)

Same here. It was half term so i thought I'd get some quality time with the pups ad all they did was sleep. Well at least I got my work done although using the laptop with the little ones head lying on the mouse pad was interesting!!! :)

I did make a terrible mistake like this last year. A lovely couple came to me who already had a 7 month dog the same breed as mine, they had had one previous that had died and were desperate for another.  Even though I was wary of the other dog still being a pup the couple assured me there was one of them home all day.  They were experienced owners or so I thought.

The little white lie that there was someone home all day turned out to be one worked days and one worked nights.  Meaning my pup and the 7 month were left alone all throught the night while the husband slept and then from 9am - 3pm whilst the wife slept.  The 7 month really hurt my pup, the toilet training was also left to slip.  It all came to light when the wife had a breakdown and phoned me saying she could not cope.

I was so upset when I got my pup back, she was scared of her mum and dad and no longer the happy confident pup that left me, it took me ages to re-socialise her and re-toilet train, she went on to a lovely new home eventually.

So NO I would not ever let my pups go to a home with another dog knowing the new owner was out at work.  As if two dogs are left unsupervised for long periods of time, either the pup frustrates the older dog to death or in the case of my poor pup gets bullied and hurt.  Two dogs are fine together with breaks and supervision or older and wiser, but never again would I ever consider a pup being left with another dog for company as many put it.

Hi Carrington
Oh my god thats terrible. I can't believe that they were that irresponsible. I would never have bought a pup when the other was still a pup and i would never buy any pet if I were in their circumstance. Have you ever had a positive experience with full time workers? Like I said before when we got our first dog we waited until my hols so she was 12 weeks when she came into our lives and i had 5 weeks at home with her before going back to work. My friend crates her pup when shes at work so she and the older dog are separated. Right or wrong in this case it works for her and they both seem v happy. Maybe we were extremely lucky to have 2 dogs who get along fantastically. Or maybe the 5 weeks i had with them before going back to work was what helped.  I just feel that sometimes us full timers are frowned upon when at times it not always deserved. I would like to think that my dogs have a full and rewarding life and I'd like to people to know that the min I win the lottery I'm giving up work, buying more dogs and going to live on a farm. OK back to dream land.
What breed do you breed (that doesn't sound right i know)

Can I also add that I could never breed from my dogs as I would NEVER beable to give them up (I'm just so soppy) so I can empathise with how hard a decision it must be for those of you that do breed. I think breeders (the good ones of course) have an extremely hard job both in looking after mum before and after, looking after pups, both finically and emotionally and then having to give them up and I admire those people cause if it weren't for you guys I would not have my babies!! :)
Marie

You see this is why it is so hard mollymoto, I don't know you but from reading your posts I find I like you and you love your dogs and come across as a really good dog owner. There is no real reason why I should say no to you and others like you. Working and having dogs has worked for you and many others.  I usually have complete strangers asking to have one of my pups, if I could visit their homes, see how they live and look into a crystal ball and see the life of my pup with them over the years, I would happily let a pup go to someone like yourself.  Unfortunately because I can't do that I have to be practical, and look at the pups immediate needs and want a similar enviroment to the one the pup has grown up in. I know they will not always be right and someone like yourself I have probably let slip through my fingers, but I have to make judements if someone offers the right criteria I have set out and is friendly and comes across well with the pup I will still put them above a full time worker.

P.S. If you ever get that farm you can def have one of mine, it would love it.

I understand. I just can't see why some people are so selfish that they would put a dog (or even a breeder) in such a position where the dogs health emotionally and physicaly is compromised, those peple are not true dog lovers! I understand that good breeders like yourself want they best and don't know who the people are.  Its good to know that so many true dog loving breeders are out there and its not all about the money (unlike the silly breeder that took our money let us travel 3 hours to collect the pup only to be told she'd 'accidently' been given to someone else!!)

And if, or should i say when, i win the lottery and get my farm I'll definatley be in touch.
Have a great weekend.
Marie
x

i have four dogs and work full time, all are happy and healthy and go for a three mile walk every night.  my mum comes in to see them at lunchtime lets them out and stays with them for a couple of hours.
we can't all live off the money from breeding puppies every year, some of us have to work in order to live!

<<we can't all live off the money from breeding puppies every year, some of us have to work in order to live! >>

I think that comment was totally out of order

why??   this was not aimed at people on here, only puppy farmers and backyard breeder, no offence mean't.

You seem to be suggesting that people who don't work full-time are living off the income from breeding puppies! :rolleyes:

Having bred a grand total of 10 puppies I would be on pretty lean pickings :)

did i say that????  no you said it,  i only remarked on puppy farmers and backyard breeders   stated very clearly!!

Erm don't see where you stated  only puppy farmers et al in your post.

oh i am sorry i didn't realise i had to state what puppy farmers do, i thought from my original post people would automatically think puppy farmers?

No, why on earth should they? There are zillions of other full-time jobs than just puppy farming!

Well I'm glad to hear that you were not referring to any of the "stay at home" breeders here involved in this thread :) 
For the record I have been guilty of nothing more than getting the free bus to Finefare and taking advantage of the fact that I could move a lot faster than the pensioners, the bus was meant for, to reach the cheap knock-offs that the supermarket put out in anticipation of the bus :p.  That, together with a few other desperate measures, was how I made ends meet in the early days of giving up work for my dogs long before I arrived in pleasantsville :)

I DO work for a living... but I took my job PURELY to work round my dogs. :)  I don't exactly enjoy doing 12 hour night shifts LOL.  I don't sleep either before I go to work or the following day - I've found not only does this allow me more time to devote to the dogs but it keeps my sleeping pattern right ;)

As for your comment - "we can't all live off the money from breeding puppies every year, some of us have to work in order to live!" don't try and play the innocent here - it was perfectly clear to everyone what you were implying.  If it wasn't meant in the way it came over I suggest you try wording your posts correctly.

This thread has turned into a debate now because some people took exception to other breeders' criteria - their personal criteria - and (it seems to me at least - forgive me if I'm mistaken) turned it round to "I work full time therefore you don't think I keep my dogs properly".  I will stand by my criteria - I've explained everything that goes with it.  If I chose to say no-one with long hair or a beard or anyone named Susan (sorry to all the Susans out there! LOL) can buy one of my puppies that's entirely down to me and me alone and NO-ONE could say it wasn't my perogative!

Debs

Venus (we can't all live off the money from breeding puppies every year, some of us have to work in order to live! )

I actually find that very offensive too, you can't say you weren't aiming it at anyone on here, because you are talking to people on this site, who was the statement to??

Speaking for myself, I am always out of pocket after producing a litter, I purely do it for the love of it and to continue a good line. You certainly do not earn money from it and speaking for myself I also work from home too.  I suggest you think carefully about what you are writing.

will do

I know sometimes life can be tough on you- i sometimes have feelings of bitterness etc, but everyones circumstances are different, i need to work, dont want to but need to. And yes there are people whose partners work and they dont need to, or they cant work or work from home etc. It does hurt when you are doing your best to provide for your pets/kids etc and pay bills then have someone say its not ideal to have a dog if you work. Now i accept that im seen as a not perfect dog owner, but my dog thinks different and i know all i do is the best i can, i cant do more, and cant do less either way.

But also im no longer bitter of people who dont work and can be company for their dogs. :)

Its enough for me that i feel so passionately about the health and welfare of my dogs and thats what i strive for every day- esp. when ive had an awful day- i know theres always going to be a reason to keep smiling- my dog.

I bet your dogs know you as the perfect owner :)

I work full time and have successfully ( I think) reared 3 dogs from puppyhood who have been extremely well exercised and trained and participate in a number of disciplines.

It is not easy, and may be not ideal but provided you make the necessary arrangements it can work well and I have to say I know more dogs with behaviour problems etc that live in the so called "ideal" home ie with someone at home all day. However one MUST be a tad obsessed I think to do so successfully and have good systems in place.

The puppy I had prior to my current one went to a dog creche for the first six months and had loads of socialisation, then was at home with a visit by the dog sitter/walker for an hour at lunchtime until a year old when they are on their own all day.

It worked for me and my dogs, but it won't work for everyone and their dogs, just as being home all day does not guarantee a well exercised/trained/socialised dog; no one has had a problem with me having a puppy either when told I work full time, but then and they were/are all reputable breeders..........