I have been thinking of changing Alfie to a BARF diet but I just came across this while trying to get info on the diet, an any one give me there thoughts on this, thanks Colette.x

number of health issues have been raised about animals fed a BARF diet:

1. Stomach and bowel problems due to bones:

Choking - bones stuck in the throat
Obstruction - bones stuck in the gullet or small intestine
Perforation - sharp bone fragments that pierce the gut
Impaction - bony faecal material which accumulates in the large bowel
The first three of these problems are life threatening and require urgent veterinary help to cure.

2. Infection problems

Potentially pathogenic bacteria commonly associated with raw meat such as Salmonella or E. coli can cause serious infections. Even if a case is made that dogs can tolerate bacteria-rich food there are equally important concerns for the owners and their family. Unless scrupulous hygiene measures are maintained for the storage and preparation of these raw meats there are real risks of infection.

3. Dietary Imbalance

Owners who formulate their own BARF diet may fail to provide a balanced diet for their dog giving rise to significant health problems. Despite the fact the purists would argue a properly prepared BARF diet will be balanced, many BARF feeders do supplement the diet with either dog food or add a mineral and vitamin supplement.

Indeed a schism seems to be developing over this issue with vet Dr Lonsdale recommending the avoidance of supplements as they "create imbalance". However Dr Billinghurst advocates a growing number of supplements for use with his BARF preparations that not only balance the diet but "cleanse the digestive tract". Also advising that, "Vitamins and minerals at optimum levels promote growth, health, stamina, reproductive ability, disease resistance, detoxification and longevity".

Problems with Feeding BARF Diets

Costs will probably be the same as the better quality commercial diets, possibly more if you are buying the commercially available BARF diets rather than preparing it yourself.

BARF diet is inconvenient. It requires a significant amount of time to prepare the food. Each day handling large amounts of raw meat, pulverising vegetables and preparing meal sized portions.

Whether buying commercially prepared BARF or preparing your own you'll need to buy a dedicated freezer to store the food. Obviously then, the food requires defrosting prior to use.

Also any help on the change and how to get started would be good, is the frozen food as good?

Hi Feedee,

Here is another site for you to check out ;)

[link]http://rawfed.com/myths/changed.html[/link]

thank you, will have a good read through that web site. do you find that your dogs have less hair loss on a barf diet, Alfie is casting terrible all the time.x

I have heard loads of testimonials about dogs shedding less once put on a raw diet.Mine have been fed naturally from the start and they dont shed a great deal. I have however seen dogs who have been practically bald from skin disease/allergies who grew in a wonderful lush coat after being changed to a more natural way of feeding.

I am sure there are lots of members who have changed to raw feeding who can  tell you their before and after;s. Excess shedding can be a by-product of a poor diet.

I don't think these "cons" are myths at all I think they represent very reasonably the down sides of raw feeding.  That is not to say there are not "pros" as well but all should be taken in perspective and decisions made on the balance rather than suggesting the list of either pros or cons was incorrect.

Yep agreed Isabel :) One must weigh up the pros and cons and decide for themselves. For every negative or positive website,there is one to negate it :rolleyes: Which is why in the end the decision must come down to the owners comfort level :)

Thats not quite what I am saying, rather than negating them I think the pros and cons are very often all true if you see the difference :) it's just a question of which outweighs the other.

I agree with you Isobel.  You have to decide based on all the information if benefits (pros) outweigh the risks (cons).  For us we decided that it was.  But I wouldn't tell anyone there are no risks to raw feeding.  That would be irresponsible.  People should make informed choices for and against based on accurate information for and against and weigh it with what you are comfortable with.

What we decided was 1/2 and 1/2.  Some would say that's even riskier - but for us it's what works.

Wendy

I agree with you Isabel, except that some of the "cons" are not relevant to raw feeding of dogs.  Especially the "con" that raw feeding is potentially dangerous to people because of salmonell or e coli.   Most people eat meat, and most people at least sometimes buy raw meat and cook it.   So why would buying and preparing raw meat for dogs be any more dangerous that doing the same for humans?

One reason I can think of is that we tend to keep our own food preparation to a limited area that we are usually quite concious of keeping clean whereas things may be rather more casual with dog food.   I'm thinking of a recent post regarding chicken wings and rugs ;)

I tried the barf diet with one of my dogs and it did not suit her at all, she lost most of her hair and ended up very ill.
Lots of dogs seem to do very well on it but this is just a warning it will not suit all.  My vet pointed out this is not a natural diet as in the wild dogs do not go round eating prepared chicken wings.  They kill animals and eat the stomach area and contents first to gain all thier nutrients.  A more natural diet is fresh unwashed paunch straight from the slaughter house which will still contain much of the stomach contents.

>A more natural diet<

Yes but its more natural than the processed stuff in a bag ;) Home made raw diets are much closer to nature than dry food.

I prepare dog food on the same surface as I do my own - trust me, that is kept clean

Bones they have outside or in "their" room which has a washable floor (which is constantly being washed) I have to shut them in,  otherwise I get lumps of tripe bought into my living room and dumped on my nice 100% wool cream rug

I do trust you :) but you can see the potential for others not being either so aware or so concientious.  Don't get me wrong I have no wish to suggest this is a high risk but I think it clearly does exist and justifies the above article describing it as a public health issue.  In addition to cleaning areas where they are fed people perhaps should also be concious of whiskery dogs carrying debris on their muzzles.  There is also the matter of the other end :), we use flushing toilets, paper and wash our hands minimising the risk if we are carrying it but dogs poo in the outdoors where people, or the dogs themselves, can tread in it, further handling is done with perhaps dirty shovels not to mention the delight they have in doing the "one dog luge" on the living room rug if they think a little tidying up is in order :D

Hi Isabel,

Not chicken wings - I don't feed them, but beef back and ribs, I don't know if the salmonela risks are the same with them, however I do make sure I clean up each evening :-) I don't leave bits of rotting carcus lying around the place. :-)  The rug isn't a big wooly rug - it's a big flat mat that can be wiped clean ;-)

'raw feeding is potentially dangerous to people because of salmonell or e coli.   Most people eat meat, and most people at least sometimes buy raw meat and cook it.   So why would buying and preparing raw meat for dogs be any more dangerous that doing the same for humans? '

i dont really think it is any more dangerous as long as you are sensible and wash up properly.  dont make the dogs raw dinner and then make a sandwich on the same chopping board without washing it!

i do, however, think the RISK of catching something from raw meat can increase just for the basic fact that you will be handling it more often etc. but again, it comes back to basic hygiene. keep your preparing area clean and you will (should) be fine!

Personally, I don't think BARF is any better or worse than any other way of feeding a dog. And just like any other food, it's not suitable for all dogs. Like a lot of things in life, I think the truth about BARF is probably smack in the middle of the polarized extreme views you get both for and against.

I tried it a few years back - did everything by the book. I had my shar-pei at the time and didn't see any of these miraculoous results that many other people testify to. In the end I got sick of the inconvenience and occasional bouts of diahorrea, so I put them on a complete senior food. They literally bloomed on that food and looked better than they had in the 18 months or so I persevered with BARF.

However, my current dog has his complete and enjoys his raw food greatly and never has digestive problems with it. He loves his chicken wings, lamb ribs, beef marrowbones and occasional lamb hearts and tripe. He gets raw food about 3 times a week and I just chuck it in with his kibble.

I'm sure it varies from dog to dog but mine has never been healthier since feeding BARF. During the first 10 months we had her and on Royal Canin, she was at the vets every other week with skin and bladder problems. I swithched to Barf 10 months ago and she has not been to the vets once since. This speaks for itself in my opinion. This with the pure joy in eating for my dog makes any preperation time worth it. I had an unused 6 foot freezer and now is full of food delivered to my door and much cheaper than feeding any other way. Of course hygene must be observed but no different than preparing our own meals. 

Nothing in life is risk free, my dogs eat raw, and quite often I eat raw foods, including salad (a prime source of salmonella), fruits (lots of illnesses etc posed by excess pesticides), I eat raw fish and raw meat from time to time (worms, campylobacter, salmonella, giardia) but hey I have passed my half century and am still fit and well.

My dogs look ok too........

I think its important to add, that whilst many people here have highlighted the need for cleanliness (avioding cross contamination) The key is really;How you store your raw foods!! Bacteria multiply best at temps between 5 C and 63 C (Know as the 'growth' zone or 'danger' zone) anything colder or hotter than this and bacteria cannot multiply.
  I watched a friend not so long ago soaking her turkey necks for the dogs in the sink in luke warm water to take the 'chill off' from the fridge,ok if done quick but perfect breeding conditions warm,moist.....if left for long enough,and they were...it just hadnt occurred to her,common mistake.

I'm going to tell a true and factually accurate story.

My very good friend, who breeds GSD's, has a good percentage of dogs who go to Kent Police and for the last 20 yrs, feeds/fed her dogs, amongst other things, (ie Barf) raw tripe from the abattoir in the years when it was legal.

These whole tripe's were sometimes infested/crawling with maggots. Yes, the dogs were in a kennelled environment, ie, away from domestic situations,  but they were consumed with the same gusto as any other bone/meat with no detriment to the dogs health. I'm not just talking about the odd few months but this went on for 20 odd years and apart from whelping bitches, was part of the dogs diet.

These dogs were extremely healthy, robust and passed all of their health tests in order for them to enter the PDS.

My POV on this is:  We are living in a "germ, infection, overly neurotic aware society" If we're not careful, we will become too hygienic. Hence our dogs will become infection vulnerable, like our children and not be able to fight off the weakest infections/diseases.

JMPOV. I have chosen to  be selective in what my dogs are nourished with and also exposed to and judging by their last titre tests they have systems that are stronger than a comparison dog who is fed on a common dog food and has had standard vaccinations.

Obviously, we all have different experiences and beliefs. In other words, if what you are doing is keeping your dog healthy and you are happy, then, don't change. If not, seek knowledge and alternatives. ;)

>My POV on this is:  We are living in a "germ, infection, overly neurotic aware society" If we're not careful, we will become too hygienic. Hence our dogs will become infection vulnerable, like our children and not be able to fight off the weakest infections/diseases.<

my POV exactly!  

Maggots are a good source of protein.   BTW, because meat is infested with maggots does not mean it also carries any of the microscopic bugs that can cause real problems, like e.coli, for example.

:-)

Maggots are great at cleaning wounds, so are leeches, maggots per se are not necessarily a problem unless combined with other factors................

A friend who fed tripe to her GSDs scraped maggots off and put them in a dish to dispose off, turned away for a minute, turned back........ Dogs had scoffed the maggots :D