I asked for advice on showing neuter dogs and it seems they are not up to breed standard if they are neuter... so...

well... I've not manage an intact lad before... my ideal would be a trip to the vets as we don't want to breed.  However we do want to show.

So far we have no behaviour issues as such. But I wanted to take advice on how to carry on bringing him up intact.  He has started lifting his leg... not in the home, and on the lead I try to stop him doing this. But he did lift his leg in PAH once and I am hoping to do light showing, light obedience and light agility right now to see what takes off with us the most... so I  need him to be a good boy!  Also in obedience and showing he is trained by my 12 year old son and he will be doing these so I want the dog as well behaved as possible so as not to be extra hard for my son.

He is very much a pet so walked in the park where there are a lot of off lead dogs and I try to get the dogs to play with me an focus on me and mostly this works well... but the odd time a dog comes out od nowhere and jumps on my two and they are off pkaying.My girl comes back straigt away but my boy gets distracted by this.  If I see other dogs coming I try to put them both on the lead. But being a park people are offended by this so that maks me sometimes compromise and just let them play. THey are well socialise so I don' feel they need so much free play with dogs... ut at the samectime I want to keep them friendly so really don't ant toput them on a lead each time we see another dog because this can teach fear.  So it's getting a ballance.

Anyway... I really want to get things right and avoid getting to have to untrain bad habbits so management advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Some dogs go through life with no 'problem' being 'intact' and others do.  At this stage you don't know whether or not your boy is going to fall into the first or latter 'category'.  If its the latter and you do want to show then along side training there are injections which can be given which are effectively a 'hormone supresant'.  They act like a temporary neutering.  I think they only last about 3 months though.  I'm sure other people on here will have useful advice for you but our only male dog wasn't much of a humper or a beligerant male AND he was intact (due to breathing difficulties he couldn't be castrated) so :p hehe

Just want to say - be careful with the injection if you go that route, I know a large well-socialised male bullmastiff who had it and immediately became very aggressive to all dogs (worst with other males though) - he has to be carefully managed now, although he has improved vastly with lots of TTouch and training.  It is the only case I've heard of, but I thought it was worth a mention.

I know a few very well behaved housetrained  adult dogs that feel the need to cock their leg in pets at home,I think all those smells are just too much Leg cocking in itself(in the right place) is not an issue though and quite natural :) What other issues were you thinking of?

I have an entire male, now 3 1/2 years old. I don't have any issues with him. He cocks his leg when he needs a wee, so I don't think that stopping your dog from doing this is useful ;) He will do it if he wants to, no matter what you want him to do. It's a dog thing. If he is not normally a dominant dog then I would just continue with his training, as you sound like you are doing everything you can anyway. :) You will get some males that get very edgy when they are near other males but you usually get plenty signs before hand. Does your male put up his hackles when he sees other dogs? Or does he just want to play? If he just wants to play then I don't think you will have too much of a problem with him. JMHO :D

Don't stop your poor dog from cocking his leg outside, that's how he wees!! But there's no reason why an entire dog should be any more likely to cock inside than a neutered dog. When my boy weed up my leg as a puppy, he got the full angry roaring 'NO!!' and shaking (gently!) of the scruff of the neck treatment (note: obviously if your boy is sensitive rather than both thick and stubborn like my boy you shouldn't be too rough!), same thing the one time he weed inside the house. And he's never done it since, not even this winter when my bitch was in full season. You may need to be careful around other males, specially if you've got a bitch too and he thinks of her as 'his property'. But there are thousands of well behaved entire males out there. :-)

Or does he just want to play?
yep... he just wants to play. He is a slow maturing... not sure if that is a boy thing too.... :rolleyes: ;)

He is not dominant... we have a girl to keep him in his place nd remind him of his lot status. So far he remembers his place.   You just hear so much about people should neuter the boys or they will have poblems like them rnning off.  With his breed he will not be fully mature until 2 anyway ( physically... mentaly I'm not pinning my hopes on the age of 2!    )

I've spent the last 12 years with 2 entire Boxers(very slow maturing breed) and neither has ever tried to run off.I think alot of the  problems people claimed were solved by neutering were a result of years ago when people just let their dogs out to roam and people didn't have such secure gardens :)

A lot of problems with dogs running off (IMHO) is lack of training. If they are training from the word go that you are in control, and they should come back when you call then I don't think anyone should have major problems with an entire male. I have always kept bitches and have found that, in my experience, they are the ones with recall problems, not the dogs :) My male is only really maturing now, but he's never been one to be dominant, unless his brothers come to visit :D and then he just tells them that this is his home and he's the boss. After a few seconds standing around 'strutting his stuff' they all tear round the garden, best of pals. I might find things a bit different in the next few days, though. His 'playmate' has just come into season

I've spent the past 25 years with entire male dogs and have not actually found them to be any different at ALL to neutered ones........

I've lived with entire male dogs for over 40 yrs & it never occurred to me to have them neutered. Why should I? (except, of course, if I had no way of seperating them from bitches in season)

Please don't stop your dog cocking his leg to wee - that's what dogs do, even many castrated ones. You won't be able to make him keep squatting to wee - that's what bitches do. Just make sure you give him your cue word for weeing at places where it's convenient for him to cock - not at every tree, lamppost, gatepost or car!

ooOOoo didn't read the bit about stopping his dog cocking his leg!   One question - Why?  Tis how mature male dogs go toilet and not 'bad' :)  What is 'bad' is when they cock their legs in your Aunties house and piddle all over a randomly placed carrier bag the minute they've got through the door :rolleyes:

I may be wrong but I think Tenai was saying he cocked his leg in Pets at Home; which isn't really an ideal place to wee!

Thanks for the replies. 

Yes.. I don't stop him cocking his leg all the time... just in inapproproarte places.  I was told if I let him do this all the time on posts and man made objects that I will have prolems in agility because it is an instant discqualuificatuion.  Well if we ever actually get good enough to compete I'm sure I will find plenty of other ways to screw up! 

The people I know who compete in agility and obediance thoughdo not tend to give their dogs the freedom I give mine... so I guess mine are not as perfectly well behaved... but mine are more people and dog friendly than a lot of those dogs too... so I like it my pet dog way.  Hovwever... I do need to make sure he dosent go pee on a judge or something! ( unless we don't like the judge! :D ;)  )

MY last dog was done at 7 months and still cocked his leg... on the odd inappropriate object and on a few people too. I think sometimes if someone is stood on a marked area dogs automatically mark. I'd guess that's why he peed in PAH... I'd guess with a lot of pups going in there all the time there are a of of 'pee on me' areas inside.

people I know who compete in agility and obediance thoughdo not tend to give their dogs the freedom I give mine.

Hm I've never competed in agility, but have done obedience for 40+ years with entire dogs & they had loads of freedom. Two of my obedience where stud dogs as well & they never stopped working to go for a pee & when I did agility for fun they were too interested in the activity to stop & pee on the equipment

My Rjj is now 9 months old & will not ready to compete until he is may be 2 years old because I like my dogs to enjoy their lives fully

He doesn't lift his leg when we do train because he does what he needs to do before we train. One f my cavaliers was 4 before he toileted away from home & he taught himself to go out via the catflap when he needs to & neither of my dogs pee on judges either(although Lou usually needs to go for a pee straight after being judged ;) )

"Yes.. I don't stop him cocking his leg all the time... just in inapproproarte places."

The thing with male dogs is they do the whole 'wee little and often' thing mainly to scent mark places.  They are attracted to where other dogs have wee'd and want to place their scent over it hence the 'weeing in PAH' incident.  I've seen so many male dogs do this in PAH and our Vets - its just something that they deal with to be honest cos some do and some don't.  I think you're right to be teaching him not to wee in 'inappropriate places' such as indoors, on people's cars etc etc :)

P.S. I didn't fully read your original post and then when I saw replies saying you were stopping him from cocking his leg I thought they meant full stop so sorry about that - I vow to read every letter of detailed posts from this day forth ;)

I vow to read every letter of detailed posts from this day forth 
lol... if only ther was time... I find I spend way too much time in the internet as it is! ( ...ooooh...but don't tell my kids!   ;)   )

Thanks.  To you all for the advice... I guess as we are at 13 months now with no problems we are not going too far wrong. He is a really lovely very sweet softie of a dog. ( oooh...I could go on and on about him!  ;D ;) )

There is a way heap massive in your face ott mountain of pressure to neuter boy dogs... both in books and the internet and wilth most of the people you meet.... in fact you don't find much to read supporting you in not neutering!

Of the non breeding but expereinced multi dog owning people I know through trainign (mostly people involved in obedience) I very rarely find any of these people have neutered males.

Those who have both sexes have the bitches spayed after a first season, coping with the hassle of the first one as they beleive and have noticed with the many dogs they come in contact with that waiting does help with mental as well as physical maturity.

I agree,there's not much info on the "con" side of nuetering but I have come accross these 2 articles..

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/castrationindogs.html

http://www.gsdhelpline.com/castration.htm

He possibley wee'd in Pets at Home because of all the doggy smells from other dogs in there. I have had entire males and castrated males and they can all cokc their legs in places where they should not:rolleyes: I think a good training school may be a good thing though for the basics and the re-call especially if you want to show him,

sorry I think we were posting at  the same moment

Junior ( will be 6 yrs old at the end of the month) is still intact and I did some agility with him he never once lifted on any of the stuff even after some dogs did.... When we went for walks I would allow a lift on our way and when I allowed him longer leash and then again when we were pretty much home. I would not allow him to lift all the time since all he was doing was marking lol typical male :D

Shh my dominant bitch cocks her leg too

ALL my male dogs have been intact and to be honest, I don't find them any more difficult to manage than my spayed females have been. I know this is probably wrong as I'm a firm believer in spaying females, but I'd never dream of cutting a male dog's kn*ckers off for no good reason.

I found the one good way to stop your vet pressurising you into neutering your dog is to tell them that he is a show dog and may be used at stud if he is good enough. They tend to accept it and not pressure you too much ;) I tell them that my bitches will be spayed when I'm finished breeding from them Even if I have no intention of breeding. Though I do actually get my bitches speyed when they are older. I, too, am a firm believer in having bitches done. It's easier to control the 'can I come and play ' from the neighbourhood male dogs ;)

My castrated male will cock his leg in PAH so I now don't take him in there.  Its the only indoor place he does it.  Never does it at the vets but then he is too damn scared to breathe when we enter the vets let alone wee. Vets is the only place he is scared though.

Bev