hi all. well the new male staff pup has arrived. been and had it's first jab today(monday).we had it done at the r.s.p.c.a in manchester. the vet there said they are doing a deal, 2nd vactination,microchipped, and neutered £35. i thought this is a good deal. this is why i am asking this question to remove or not to remove. i have heard and read if you get them done to early they do not get there shape. plus all the other fors and against. them in the know say about 18 months is a good age. the vets at the r.s.p.c.a i suppose will advise this because the do not want more unwanted dog pregnancies,which equalls more unwanted pups in dogs homes. i would like to know you opinions on this subject whether you have a staffy or not. hope you can shed some light on this delicate subject speaking as a man. looking forward to your views. all the best tha man steve.

If you do a [Search], putting neutering or castration into the topic box you'll find enough information to confuse you totally!

I prefer to nueter younger before any hormonal driven dominance agression or sexual urges become ingrained, somewhere between 6 months and a year, unless the dog is of good breeding and has the potential of becoming a top stud dog.
I have never had a dog not grow up mentally or physically immature from doing this and thier coats have never changed in anyway.  But I have had some lovely sociable dogs, that don't impose themselves on others.
Saying that many entire dogs are equally well mannered and not are all sexually driven, much depends on the owner and thier responsibility to owning an entire male.
If you have a bitch and don't want unwanted accident matings etc then I would definatly advise earlier rather than later, there are enough unwanted dogs around without more being born.

Bev

I prefer to neuter after the dog/bitch is physically mature in order not to compromise their physical/mental development.

There is no excuse for unwanted pregnancies, it is simple for responsible owners to ensure that their dogs/bitches do not impregnate/become impregnated by good management and control.

thank's everyone, i think i will wait until he is about 12 to 18 mounths old. we will be getting our girl done in april/may. she has had 2 seasons and we think the time is right. she is a superb dog, and is in the advance class at training. the boy will be starting soon after all his jabs. thank's for your input. all the best steve

I was just about to post the same topic, as I'm unsure when to do mine he's 5.5 months. Personally I don't want to but my partner does thought it was usually the opposite? I know that one of his brothers was done yesterday. I have heard that they don't develop all their male hormones if done to early, but I waited until my last dog was 18 months. It apparently takes longer for them to lose their sexual drive & sometimes it's too late to stop dominace if done later on in life, as I found out with mine! Any way good luck with your pup :)  

Having done a deal of reading about this issue, I came to the conclusion that I wouldn't tear off to the vet when Nips was 6 months old (as the vet suggested!) but wait for him to mature and not have him done until he's much nearer a year old. And to be honest, I can see a deal of additional maturity in just the last month alone - he's now 7 months old so I'm glad I decided to wait. What I don't see is any evidence of "dominance" but then I'm not one for dominance theory at the best of times. As for sex drive, he still has an unrequited relationship with his bed but he had that at 9 weeks of age!

I'm with you Roz Although I only have entire males so don't have my dogs done. There's no "dominance"(hate that word)problem as my spayed female is a definite "Alpha". I woyld never dream of having a young puppy castrated. They need the hormones to mature mentally let alone physically.

although i agree that 6 months is too young, i dont think that you should wait much after they are a year old.  i had my male lab done when he was 16months and as far as im concerned, this was too late. he still has exactly the same sexual tendencies as he did when he was entire.  i then got another male dog (still hadnt learnt) and i didnt have him  done until he was 17months and again, this has proven to be a bit late.  if i ever got another male dog, i would definately do it between 11 and 12 months

becky

so then folk's the right time seems to be between 7 to 12 months then. so if i say have him done at 10 months this would be more nearer the mark. we are having our female staffy done in april/may. this should stop him getting the horn because she will not come into season. thank's for all your imput. all the best steve

Do be aware that he won't be firing blanks immediately though!

roz. i will tell my dog what he has got to look forward too, i'm booked in for the snip at the end of march.i to will not be firing blank's for a while also. all the best steve

i had my male lab done when he was 16months and as far as im concerned, this was too late. he still has exactly the same sexual tendencies as he did when he was entire.

Well I have one who was neutered at 5 months (never again) and he still mates and ties and cocks his leg -just took him a bit longer to get the idea.

the best time to neuter is after the dog has matured,  but before the behaviours (cocking leg, being feisty, little bit aggro) become habits- because if you leave too long and then remove its bits it may not make a bit of difference as the dog has got into these habits and they have stuck.
this all depends on the individual dog and how he develops.

I would say betwee 12-15mths.

Why are more and more vets wanting to dive in and operate,spay/neuter at a mere 6 months old? :(

I think some vets are genuinely trying to avoid irresponsible mating and amateur breeding but there's always a danger that other undesirable factors don't get taken into account. So yes, you can neuter them as young as 6 months but this may well affect how they mature and behave in the longer term.

why do so many people want their dogs neutered 

My two are both entire and they dont "hump" anything.  The only dogs they really want to harrass when they are out are those who are neutered because they give off the scent of an in season bitch.  I think its really sad because we have come accross a lot of neutered dogs who are dog aggresive because of the way other dogs treat them.

Im not saying ALL neutered dogs are like this, I just think owners need to be aware before they rush in and get their dogs done of the side affects.  The way I see it if you buy a male dog why get his balls cut off ? you may as well just buy a female :rolleyes:

"if you buy a male dog, why get his balls cut off? you may as well just buy a female"

sorry but this is a ridiculous statement.  if you are not intending to breed from your male dog, then i think it is the responsible thing to do.  if a male dog senses a bitch in season then he will quite happily jump out of his garden and go and find her, now this is not the bitches fault or down to the owner of the bitch. the farm where i keep my horse has an entire working springer and on two occasions he has got out and travelled accross a main road and a few fields to get to this particular bitch who was in season. this bitch then had to go and have an injection to stop her having pups, at the bitches owners expense i will add.  this is neither fair on the bitch or the bitches owner. also if you are not going to breed from your male dog, can you imagine how it must feel for him to have all the sexual hormones and not be able to do anything with them!! ask any man how that would feel!!

becky

In that case I shoudl ahve my neighbours male doberman jumping into my garden to get at my girls whilst in season.

A propewrly cotnained and trained dog will not be in a position to go and father pups, adn a bitch owner that properly suprevises theri girls even in their own garden will also prevent any such occurence.

Perhaps in the country where some dogs are allowed much more freedom and opportunity to wander than in towns it may be the case, but I see absolutely no reason to castrate any male dog if there isn't a medical or strong social reason (havng both sexes in same household).

With middle aged bitches there is a high chance of Pyometra especially those who have never been bred from, so I can see more reason to spay bitche not wanted for breeding at a younger age,a dn brood bitches once their breeding life is over to prevent this.

>if a male dog senses a bitch in season then he will quite happily jump out of his garden and go and find her

Luckily nobody's told my two entire male dogs that that's how they're supposed to behave.

>can you imagine how it must feel for him to have all the sexual hormones and not be able to do anything with them!! ask any man how that would feel!!

Not a valid point, really. He'd probably feel better about that than if you asked him if he'd like to be castrated! ;) Very many people are perfectly content living celibate lives.

if you are not intending to breed from your male dog, then i think it is the responsible thing to do.  if a male dog senses a bitch in season then he will quite happily jump out of his garden and go and find her, now this is not the bitches fault or down to the owner of the bitch.

Obviously done of my dogs ever knew that is how they were/are supposed to behave either, what a very odd think to write

BTW if the bitch is out on her own it is very irresponsible of the owner even in the owners own garden

I had at one time three active stud dogs, none of whom went walkies after in season bitches that were in their owners gardens

Actually what dogs have never had they never miss & entire dogs don't need to mate bitches to be happy. My last two Bc's & none of my cavaliers have beem used at stud & never missed it. On the otherhand they were trained & lead happy lives

Look at the shelters in the US,they spay/neuter puppies and kittens at 6-8 weeks Which does ensure no irresponsible people can breed from them i suppose,but i wonder what the side effects,if any,are to doing them that young.I havnt found any evidence for or against..

I'm not in any great hurry to have Nipper's nuts off but equally I don't want him wandering around the countryside following the scent of the various bitches that live on the farms close by and certainly I don't want to discover him in humping paradise on the Downs where various irresponsible people insist on taking their in-season bitches out off their leads!!  Since I don't intend to breed from him it seems sensible to take precautions but I chose to have a dog in preference to a bitch and I don't see how neutering him at a sensible age is going to cause him any gender confusion.

> neutering him at a sensible age is going to cause him any gender confusion.

It does, trust me, I speak from experience, people are amazed when I meet them on walks and within seconds I say - "oh is he neutered", I can tell by the way my boys react to them :(

We had our Bichon neutered age 8 due to medical reasons and he became VERY attractive to males also.

Never had any problem with dogs thinking my boy is an in season girl or any of the dogs I've had nuetered.  The only dogs that are a problem round here are the same with dogs and bitches and are owned by irresponsible owners that think for thier dog to stay off the lead run and attack any dog that comes along is letting dogs behave as they should naturally.  In fact another entire male is more at risk from these dogs as they are seen as competition.

Well I know many a neutered male that has a compromised quality of life due to feminisation syndrome, especially those that didn't have much confidence to start with.

If it aint broke don't fix it.

Most of the problems people have with males are training issues and not hormone issues anyway.

Often people after neutering are told that it will take some months to a year to see a change, but actually the dog would have changed/grown up anyway, neutered or not.

A badly behaved dog will not sprout wings when its tackle is removed.

Even if my dogs did want to escape from the garden to run to an in season bitch (which they havent tried to so far) they wouldnt be able to because my garden is secure - AND I live in the country, I havent seen any farm dogs running round trying to get to inseason bitches :rolleyes:

My Alf has been attacked a few times, always by neutered dogs :(

ok first of all i never said ALL male dogs do, im just giving an example of something i know to have happened. secondly, every one has their own opinion on the subject and everyone doesnt have to agree. i see no point in arguing about it with everybody

im not arguing, im giving my opinion - thats what the board is for :rolleyes:

IMO if owners have no intention of breeding from their dog/bitch it is the responsible thing to get them neutered - there are way to many unwanted litters of pups as it is so why take the risk!?  Its the same with cats.

:)

why take the risk ? I wouldnt because of the reasons stated above.  The reasons its important to get cats done is because most are free roaming, where as dogs are kept under control at all times.  Also male cats are a proper nightmare to live with if they arent done.

Its the same with cats.

Not quite as queens come into season more often than bitches & of course cats are much harder to stop from wandering. Hence the difference in the law regarding dogs & cats(being under control etc) & unneutered toms do spray urine to markm their territory & boy does it pong, plus entire toms are must more like to get involved in serious fights with other cats. Cats are much less domesticated than dogs

I've had dogs a long time & only ever had one dog castrated(for veterinary reasons) & spayed bitches. I've had entire dogs & bitches at the same time & never had an unwanted litter since I got my first dog(well bitch)in 1958

So I don't think I can be classed as irresponsible well not IMHO anyway

As our puppy came from a rescue centre we have to have him neutered as part of the conditions for owning him  and that has to be carried out by the end of April when he will be 8 months old. We agreed to this when we got him and they do check to see that we have complied with their rules.

I think you've misunderstood me there - I meant that its the responsible thing to do with both dogs and cats who aren't going to be bred from full stop thats all.  So many owners of dogs don't "keep them under control at all times", haven't got a garden like Fort Knox which doesn't allow their dog(s) to dig/jump/wriggle their way out OR another dog from getting in.  Some wouldn't keep their in season bitch inside for the entire 28 days (or so) of her season so as not to 'alert' all the entire males within a several mile radius to her wherabouts, some dogs escape without their owners even realising that they have an escape route etc etc etc.  I just feel, in my personal opinion, that on the whole (100% responsible at all times owners and reputable breeders excluded) that it is the most responsible thing for any dog owner to do - whether they have a male or female or both - to get it/them neutered

Edit to say - and with this whole "dognapping for breeding purposes" thing going on ( ) thats another risk owners need to take into account...

The trouble with the attitude that "responsible owners nuter" is that it's not the responsible owners that are letting their dogs reproduce but the irresponsible ones.People who want to breed their dog with the dog next door aren't going to nuter their pets and they are the biggest cause of overpopulation.Yes accidents do happen but as others have said it is entirely possible to keep an intact male responsibly and I've never seen any dominance,marking,running off,sexual frustration or aggression from either of my intact Boxers  who've never so much as humped a cushion :)

"responsible owners nuter"

I didn't say that - I said that "it is the responsible thing to do".  If we were all 100% perfect then there would be no need to neuter any dog, there would be no dogs in shelters and no unplanned puppies needing new homes.  But is it fair to have a hormonal bitch/dog going through all the emotions for their entire lives when there are alternatives?  Would we as humans like to have seasons or be a sexually frustrated male for our entire lives?  I don't think so!

P.S.  Our previous Sheltie dog was never neutered (due to a breathing difficulty) and wasn't the 'humping type' but there are equally as many that are!

I realy don't think my Dogs are going through "hormonal emotions their entire lives" and don't believe in altering them just in case they display unwanted behaviour  Surely if a dog was sexualy frustrated he would be humping everything? The only males i know that do that are nutered

I agree with that, I dont think it makes a difference if your dog is neutered or not, if its going to be a humper then hump it will ;)

"if its going to be a humper then hump it will"

I didn't say that it would 'alter behaviour' anyway - but the point is that if a dog is a 'humper' (or a humpee) anyway, if neutered then that 'humping' wouldn't amount to anything would it!? 

Again, I'm being taken the wrong way :rolleyes:  I'm talking about those that should be neutered and aren't, not the 'perfect' dogs with the 'highly responsible' owners :p  Never did I say that a dog should be 'altered' "just in case they display unwanted behaviour".  My point is that for the Joe Bloggs of a dog owner who has an 'intact' bitch or male with no intention to breed (which they shouldn't have anyway cos they're not a 'proper breeder'!) then the most sensible thing to do for both them and their dog would be to neuter

But what im saying is neutering can bring on a whole host of other problems, so when Joe Bloggs who doesnt really know much about dogs goes off and gets his dog neutered then 6 months later cant understand why his dog is attracting unwanted attention from other male dogs and has turned nasty towards other dogs.  What happens to the dog then ? PTS ? re-homed ?

The point is why are the dogs who are giving it the "unwanted attention" not neutered too?  Thats got to be in the minority of cases anyway...

Edit to say:-

And who said Joe Bloggs doesn't "know much about dogs" ?  Many people just choose to ignore all the 'advice' and don't posess much in the way of 'common sense'  but that doesn't mean they don't know much about dogs

Ok, im the owner of a "teenage" Irish Setter, he isnt neutered because he is a show dog and will quite possibly be used at stud one day. I also have another slightly older boy who also isnt neutered because basically I dont see any reason why he should be. There is nothing more annoying than taking a walk on a dog filled beach with my boys picking out EVERY neutered male dog and generally making nuisances of themselves, my older boy has excellent recall but my younger one would rather follow the neutered dog home than come back to me.  Now I can call that dog off ANY dog, including bitches (unless they are inseason or recently been / coming into season) but neutered dogs he finds really attractive and it ends up ruining our walk because he has to go on the lead and even then he will continue to whine and try to get to the other dog.  I know maybe I should have more control over him but that is the only time he wont come back, he is usually good.  Walking some neutered dogs in a dog filled place is as bad as walking an in-season bitch there, but bitch owners are usually responsible and keep their in season bitches away from popular dog walking areas, its a shame some neutered dogs arent treated the same by their so called "responsible" owners.

>maybe I should have more control over him<
>its a shame some neutered dogs arent treated the same by their so called "responsible" owners.<

genuinely over the proximity of those two statements :)

pardon? what are you confused about and I shall explain :)

ah I think I see :)  im saying that castrated dogs who are suffering from feminisation (or whatever its called) should be treated like in season bitches (ie. kept away from popular dog walking areas where they cause a disturbance to even the most well behaved dogs) alternatively owners of these dogs could give them hormonal drugs so the dogs dont smell like an in season bitch.

where I state that maybe I should have more control over my boy means exactly that, BUT I do have control over him, the only time he runs off is to a neutered dog, im not being irresponsible because I do get him back and put him on a lead, but why should our walk be ruined by someone walking a dog suffering from feminisation ? its just the same as someone walking an inseason bitch in the middle of a popular dog walking place - you just dont do it !

Quote [BUT I do have control over him, the only time he runs off is to a neutered dog, im not being irresponsible because I do get him back and put him on a lead, but why should our walk be ruined by someone walking a dog suffering from feminisation ?]

It is not the castrated dogs fault if your dog finds him appealing either so why should his walk be ruined because your dog charges up and all over him.  if you had full control he would not be running after anything you didn't allow.
It is manners if you can't be sure when your dog is going to dissapear after another dog that if you see one coming you keep control and check with the owner first if its alright for your dog to play.
ALL dogs have a right to be exercised and owners of ALL dogs should respect ALL dogs right of not being leapt all over and having thier space invaded if it is not welcome.
I have a bitch who loves all dogs but if I see another dog entering the field we are exercising on I put her on the lead before she can have a chance to bound over and  expect it to play. I ask the owner first if it is ok for her to play with thier dog, I don't wait for her to reach it be a nuisance and have to go and retreive her.

Bev

No, it's not the 'fault' of the castrated dog if an entire dog finds him appealing. Neither is it the 'fault' of an in-season bitch if a dog finds her appealing. It's not a question of fault and blame - it's just a fact of life. However, it's not fair for the owner of an in-season bitch to walk her around other dogs - it can be debated that it's equally unfair of owners with feminised dogs to do the same.

It could be debated about any dog and whichever you have you will want the right to be able to walk.  Personally i would never walk an in season bitch anywhere public and as the season is not lifelong I don't think it hurts to keep her confined for the duration, but you can't say you can never walk a castrated dog or an entire dog, ridiculous.  Its up to the owners to be aware of thier own dogs behaviour and respect all others.
When I posted  about the collie nip, it was said by many other dogs should not enter into thier space and about manners, which is true and goes for all dogs in all situations.

Bev

Nobody's saying that any dogs should never be walked, whether they're in-season bitches, entire dogs, spayed bitches or castrated dogs. However if they're sexually attractive (or indeed aggressive) it's sensible and polite of the owner to walk them where they'll cause the least upset to other dogs.