I recently bumped in to a lady whose children my mum used to childmind in a supermarket. We had a little yap and then i said i needed to move on as i had to get home for the dog. She told me she has a dog now and its a dobe and she is going to breed her this year for £650 a pup. She said whats the point of spending the money on her if she wasnt going to get anything back . I tried to draw from things i had read on here to put her off. All i could think of was that you needed to have a large amount of money in the bank before hand incase of emergancies and both needed relevant health checks. I am not a breeder and have very little knowledge on the subject, i did tell her that you needed to have extensive knowledge about pedigrees as you could have problems there with funny looking pups, (i made that up).   the reason i went on about it was because the only research she had done was to find out from the kc how many times she could breed her and register pups and she was looking for a stud in papers and on the internet please could you all think of other reasons i could put her off with. If you lot educate me with a checklists then perhaps we can prevent some of these dogs being bred for money and ending up with health problems in a rescue centre. Thanks.xx

I wouldn't even waste your breath as all the stupid woman can see is pound signs in her eyes - it would probably all fall on deaf ears.

death of pups or mum, serious infections, keeping what she cant find homes for, the cost it takes to actually bring a healthy litter into the world and im not talking about the years of cost im talking about the general costs after breeding the vet checks the food wormings flea treatments of all pups. Then there is the general lifestyle change family friends and work needs to come second when she is approaching whelp and after there is too many to list

The people who used to live next door to my parents did exactly the same thing. They bought a Westie to be a house dog and a Dobermann to breed as the puppies would sell for a higher price :( The Dobe was the loveliest, most gentle dog ever despite the fact that she had to live outside and got no attention from the family. They used to go off to their caravan at weekends and leave her in the back yard alone. Sometimes the eldest son would remember to come home and feed her and sometimes he wouldn't My parents and another neighbour used to feed her over the fence (probably wrong of them but she would have starved otherwise) and on several occasions my Dad had to climb the fence to fill her water bowl as she would be left with none RSPCA weren't interested Sorry, I'm rambling.

Anyhow, they bred from her and made plans for what to do with all the money the pups would bring in. The birth was straightforward and for the first time the dog was allowed inside the house to rear the pups. Eight big sturdy pups...most of whom were not sold by 8 weeks of age. Suddenly, they came to the realisation that maybe there wasn't the market for poorly bred dobermann pups from parents who had not been health tested and that the litter was costing a fortune to feed. They dropped the price to about £100 to get rid of the last ones. They never bred from her again...the only positive thing to come out of the whole sorry tale.

There is probably nothing you can say or do to stop this woman breeding from her Dobe :( We can only hope that the reality of what is involved puts her off doing it again.

Since she's more interested in making money than being responsible you could point out some potential financial implications. Buyers can return a puppy to the breeder if it has any problems that are due to bad breeding. Not only do they have to refund the purchase price of the puppy but also associated costs of ownership; e.g. vet bills, food, equipment. You can see if they choose a bad pairing and end up with problem pups they could end up losing a lot of money. I'm not a breeder so I don't know all the details but it was brought up in my canine behaviour class. And the courts almost always favor the buyer according to the teacher of the course.

I would guess that anyone who was willing to pay top prices would also be completely unwilling to give their money to an irresponsible breeder who did no testing, made no effort to find a good pairing and will probably raise them improperly. I wouldn't give her a pound.

iknew some one like that met her up at school she had a white gsd and a flat coat she bred  them she rang me up at 12 at night could we go round the bitch was eating the pups we had to grab the pups as she deliverd them and the bitch was going up the wall she called the vet he gave her a injection he had to put some to sleep she ended up with about three and you should have seen  the size i tried to talk her out off  it at the time all she could see was pound signs but it ended up costing her more money than what she made she got a bit for them but she just wanted rid of them and then she had the bitch sprayed  said she could not go through that again silly women

Ask her if she thinks there will be a market for undocked Dovermanns just after the docking ban is in, because everywhere ekse in the world the ban saw a big drop in demand for these types of breed - so she could be stuck with unsold pups.

I knew someone who had a lovely litter of well-bred dobermanns, but at 14 weeks she still had 7 dog puppies unsold, getting bigger and less saleable by the day, and eating her out of house and home. At 5 months she still had 4 left. She lost thousands of pounds with that litter.

Hi

This is like someone i know through another hobby, I mentioned in a email that my wee dog was expecting pups she replied that she would like to breed her staffy but just needs to find a boyfriend for it. I answered her in what I hoped was a friendly way saying be very carefull when breeding staffys has they have been very popular and now breeders are having problems selling. Also the rescues are full of staffs and staff crosses. Her replie she knows all about the resues as that is were her girl came from and not to worry about selling them as in the local paper you see lots being advertised and they are selling for £150. I was shocked first that she is even thinking about breeding from a rescue dog without papers and secondly concidering a £150 a good price for a pup. Not to mention of course this dog will have had no health checks and I doubt the dog will  have as no decent breeder will let her use there stud on a unregistered bitch. I hear now the bitch has mange due to stress of being rehomed and coming into season. I am just praying she isnt going to mate her.

Wendy

The people next door bred their two 'staffies' (a loose term IMO as neither was a good example of a staffie, tho both have good temperament) together and had 7 pups early last October, by Christmas there was still 3 pups left, they're gone now but she was practically giving the last ones away, they sold them thru a sign in the front window :(  I'm hoping that it was more trouble than it was worth for her, as it was simply pound signs again

hi, i thought all rescue dogs were speyed or neutered

Hi, Tyko.

By no means, it depends on the Rescue Centre. 

Birmingham Dogs Home used to neuter on site for a (small) extra fee but now gives out vouchers for £80 towards the cost of neutering but these can only be redeemed at a couple of vets in the north of the city -and Birmingham's a big place from north to south, believe me.  I can only assume this change was caused by financial stringency but I think it's very poor practice. 

MIB

thanks all, i will try and talk to her again as it worried me a lot. What was more worrying was the statement that she puts the dog outside with a bed in the shed when she has a season as she doesnt want it on her carpets :rolleyes: is she going to make her whelp in the shed aswell I just hate it when people buy animals for this reason, especially as one of her comments was whats the point in buying them if you are not going to get anything back I get plenty back from my dog thanks, i get a big waggy bum in the morning, a big waggy bum when i speak to him, kisses in the afternoon, a cuddle in the evening,a confidant who isnt going to tell my secrets. My dog has been my world since i brought him home, i find his walks calming even in bad weather. I just dont think people who think this way should have dogs, it is awful. I dont even think she has the knowledge on puppy owner selection, mine was a telephone interview and then we had to vist for the day andwe still left knowing that we would be keeping in touch during the time left by telephone and at any time we may be refused. I volunteer sometimes at the cats and dogs home and it just breaks my heart to see the animals in there, one 4 month old jrt was brought in as he wees everywhere I told her to contact her breeder for advice, hopefully she will and hopefully they will put her off. If i see her again i will relay everything you have posted, (and probably some more lies), and keep my fingers very crossed.

I agree that emphasising the money or rather lack of it to be made by breeding is a good idea. With my girl she had 3 puppies last time and my estimate of costs including time off work was around £3000 so try and make the books balence when your puppies sell for £600 each! This time her scan showed only 2 puppies and although my costs will be slightly less as I have all the equipment now it will still be way above the 'worth' of the puppies. This does not matter to me as am having this litter as want 1 myself, to show hopefully, but I could easily find that neither are suitable and end up buying a new puppy in later in the year. I never knew it was going to be so difficult when I started and i have been supported throughout by my dog's breeder and the stud dog owner both times. The problem is that people who breed for money often do not have the same costs as do not spend night and day for at least the first 2 weeks obsessivley watching their puppies and drinking coffee, which I hate, to stay up. Sneaking off to the bath when they can bribe husband or teenagers to puppy watch and to try and grab an hour's sleep. Spending a month living on a couch in the whelping room finally completing that cross stich cushion you were givne 5 years ago and missing out on your best friend's annual visit to this country, as she's due to arrive when the puppies are also due. I'm sure we'll be able to grab a coffee together! I could go on but all of you who have been there will have similar experiences i know and for those who haven't you just hope that you can either put them off if doing for the wrong reasons or make them more aware and prepared.

If she's upset about any mess on the carpet when the bitch is in season, she won't know what's hit her when the puppies arrive! Especially when they are 4-8 weeks old and they are standing in their dinner and their own poo and smearing it all over the floor, the walls ,each other... you get the picture! You could stress that too. Also if she says it's okay they'll be outside - tell her that if you rear puppies outside they are likely not to be well socialised and if she can sell them when they are running and hiding from prospective puppy owners, she's likely to get irate people getting very nasty and demanding their money back and dumping the dog on their doorstep.

If she's so money orientated, as well as telling her about all the things that can go wrong with the mum and pups, here's another couple of things to scar them with. If the dogs have any hereditary defects like HD, the buyers can actually come back at a any time and take them to court for selling goods not fit for the purpose they were sold for (that HAS happened a few years back and the plaintiffs won). Also if she's on any means tested benefits, if she's shopped to the DSS for breeding puppies at £650 a time, their money will be stopped and they could get done for defrauding the DSS.

Of course, neither is highly likely to happen, but they don't know that and you want to put the frightners on her.

Add to your list a small bitch screaming in pain because a pup is stuck and tearing its legs off in an attempt to get it out.  Trying to remove the now dying pup by the protruding bones left sticking out.  Having your bitch go down to eclampsia and dying - or not if you are lucky -  but then hand rearing the litter.  Feeding screaming puppies every two hours, even a small litter say 4 takes 10 to 15 minutes to feed each one clean and toilet it then on to the next.  By the time you have cleared up it is time to start feeding again. Big breeds can drink a  lot of milk at £11 per tin and you cant say no to a starving whelp.

The list goes on.  She may just be lucky and have a normal litter and birth but unsocialised puppies, as already mentioned, are a nightmare.  After being shut up in a shed for 8 weeks with only each other for company and to fight with they just don't relate very well to humans.

Not horror stories, it does happen.

to be honest the Dobe world doesnt need any more backyard breeders adding to the volume of badly bred pups.  I hope this woman has health tested and is aware of the health problems in the Dobermann.  I hope her breeder is aware and can advise unless she bought this bitch from a dimwit who hasnt endorsed the pups.  All I can say is poor bitch and poor puppies.  I doubt she would get £650 per pup anyway as top breeders do not charge that much, also people are more aware of health testing nowadays, but it sounds like show doesnt care where the pups go and would sell to anyone.

you could ask this lady to join Christines forum for advice...  www.dobermann.me.uk

when i got my girl the breeder we got her for said to us that if we ever breed her "IT MUST BE WITH A BORDEAUX" and she will have every pup of us

to honest i did think about it for all of two mins and said to my OH theres is no way i'm gonna breed her because one she is a cross breed and two y would i want to

the woman rung my a few weeks ago to see how my girl was doing and asked if i had put any thought into breeding her and i said no as she is due to be spaded soon

>>especially as one of her comments was whats the point in buying them if you are not going to get anything back<<

At the moment my three collies are wrestling with each other over a ball on a rope, they are such a happy bunch. The small amount (in my  mind) of money that I paid for them is nothing copmpared to what they give back. Dogs don't care who or what you are, you could be a mass murderer and they would love you anyway. How can anyone put a price on that? I really hope that this woman sees sense and doesn't breed that poor dog. :-(