Hello all.
My DH and I have a four month old Samoyed.  She has a rather impressive pedigree and we promised the breeder we would show her at least one.  A show dog was NOT what we were looking for, just another Sam to share our life after or previous two died.
Last evening we took her for her (and ours) first ring craft lesson.
Oh dear!  There were well over 20 dogs there.  Not much time was spent with her or advice given to us.  The dogs there were all older, and they were on a much higher learning level.  They have no puppy classes, so this was the only thing going.

We are complete beginners.  Although our gal is actually well behaved, when she gets in the company of other dogs she is all puppy and wanting to play.  All the other owners acted as if she had a communicable disease!  I tried very hard not to let her get to the other's, but in cramped quarters it was rather hard. She was sooo frustrated and stressed.

I thought we would get some sort of guidance regarding the equipment we need for handling her.  I know I have to get her a rolled collar as the flat one she has now is going to ruin her ruff if she wears it much longer.  (We take it off at night and put it on just before walking her.)
There was no advice forthcoming even when asked.

So, I suppose I'm asking if anyone can tell me what I should be using as a collar and lead, what hints you might be able to share, and how to go about calming down a very excited puppy who wants to play!
Is there such a thing as some one willing to do one on one instruction in the art of ring craft?  And HOW can I go about teaching her to follow my hand or finger rather than food.  (Clicker would be better...she does respond to that for basic sit, down, stand.)

Beginning to have second thoughts about showing her.  BTW...did I mention she practically never stopped barking - or yapping actually.

TIA for any help or advice!

At the end of the day ringcraft really is just that and isnt a substitute for general obedience etc, i know a few that succesfully combine the two classes with just a few commands avoided.

I wouldn't want an excitable puppy next to mine during ringcraft as it would put mine off (that sounds so la de dah of me doesn't it :( )

I'm suprised they didn't welcome you more do they have a coffee break? as is usual in our coffee breaks to do a little one to one with new people.
Maybe call the person that runs the class and ask would they meet you earlier or stay a little later to guide you, many would be more than happy to do that.

Don't give up if they aren't being helpful is there another class near to you? we travel over an hour to reach ours.

Best of luck.

Hi Marri
First of all I would look at a puppy training (obedience) class as well as a ringcraft class. Here she would be able to socialise more easily. Some people don't want their dogs to play when they are training them however they shouldn't be turning their noses up at a pup. In the show ring you have many distractions including excitable dogs of all ages. We all had them at some point. AT our ringcraft, we mingle the pups in with more experienced dogs to improve their confidence and training.  If you can find another training class however, that would be better. In terms of the ringcraft classes you go to. If they are not prepared to help a beginner I would seriously think about going to another ringcraft where the help would be available, especially if there are too many there and not a big enough venue. At the end of the day, you've paid your money like everyone else and entitled to the time. More should be given if you have a newcomer as alot of people go just to keep the dog in practise for shows. Hopefully someone in the Surrey area will be able to help. If not contact the kennel club for a list of clubs in your area.

Thanks for the replies.

Actually our pup has gone through 5 weeks of Puppy Parties at the vet office, and we are currently working in Puppy Training.  That has another 4 weeks to run and then we'll sign up for the next level.

She gets plenty of socialization on her walks as we live in doggy heaven - park down the road and that heads onto the fields along the river.  There are a group of regulars she meets and plays with almost every day.

In some ways last night was good in the fact she had to learn a little bit of patience.
But I think the size of the group is a bit off putting.  I understand why they do it the way they do - cost factor - but don't feel it's giving me the beginning instruction needed.
Perhaps I will see if I can find a smaller group, or one geared to beginners.  I had thought we were in like Flynn because it's about 15 mins away!

There was no break, just continually moving through the group.  Perhaps some weeks are less crowded than others. *shrug*

Any thoughts on what I need for handling gear?

I dont have your breed but do have a long coated breed myself ..I use a show chain which then hangs loose not to ruffle up the coat or a half check show chain.

here are a few websites that may help you.

www.swinglers.com
www.luxwaycanine.com
www.accoladeleathercraft.com
www.hideandcollars.co.uk

HTH

Roni

Hi Marri

Have pm'd you

Sarah

I would try a more welcoming ringcraft and would not try to 'calm' her down. Anything to do with show must be fun for any dog, especially pups, as long as yr Sam is under control and not bouncing on anyone else's dogs thats fine. I would approach the breeder for tips, they want you to show and should be able to tell you lots of Sam specific stuff

I agree with Bazb, your puppy should be naughty and excitable for some time yet. A bit of gentle encouragement to stand still is fine, but don't tell her off for being a puppy (I'm sure you wouldn't anyway!). If there's any other ringcraft places give them a go - or of course, the one you tried might have just been particularly busy that night and could be fine another time. Don't give up yet, showing's great fun! :-)

4 months old, she is still a baby.  Don't worry about her acting like a puppy, that is what she is!  If you don't feel that the Ringcraft was welcoming, try another.  Even judges will forgive a puppy temperament as long as the puppy is good.  The only problem is that often the puppies that stand so still are with a very experienced handler.  After all, why do you think that some people have professional handler showing their dogs at Crufts, it is because a professional handler gets the best out of the dog.  Don't be put off, enjoy and be proud!

<<<<<often the puppies that stand so still are with a very experienced handler>>>>>

Tend to disagree...My Dad's a very experianced handler and also trains at our ringcraft but he could not get our puppy to stand still!!!! :D

I wonder if you turned up on a match night.  It is rare for Rigcraft classes to be that crowded, though not unusual in the run up to Crufts.

Several near me have closed over the years as they just cannot get enough people to attend week in week out to pay for the hall hire.

As you have already realised what Ringcraft is very good for is teaching the pups that it isn't al about playtime and they must learn to be clam around other dogs.  This all takes time.

I would phone the class organiser ans ask for some help, often people don't reallise you need help when they are busy meeting up with freinds, as most treat it as a ngiht out with doggy pals first and training second.

Hi Marri
I have had sams for 20 odd years and go to all the shows. Your problem sounds exactly the same as I had all those years ago,if you need any help please email me at santaviga@btinternet.com I dont know where you live but we are in Scotland, our whole family shows the dogs. Dont suffer in silence. if you are going to Crufts please come and say hello. We are a good bunch and will make you welcome.

Jackie

Hi Marri
I was in the same position as you back in November Ring Craft seemed a daunting prospect one advantage I had my breeder came along with me to give support without out their help I dont think I would have gone back in December we won the puppy walk anyone would have thought I had won Crufts from then on I got the bug and never miss a ringcraft session tomorrow Saturday 18th is are first open show I am so nervous we are the last breed in the ring so by lunch time I will be a wreck I hope I dont let Karla down what I am trying to say is dont give up it is great fun and you meet some really nice people contact your breeder they are the best people to help you get started good luck Pete

Thank you every one.
I've had rather a hectic week and have only just made it back to the board.

I called the breeder and she suggested that we come up one day for the afternoon and they will coach us and pup.
They taught ringcraft so are familiar from that angle as well as showing.
I do feel better getting them involved, I know they will know how to get the best from our puppy.
We will continue with the one we are attending now because it will give different people going over her, not just the people she knows.  I think I'll also try to uncover a few more classes, but they seem to be difficult to find.  LOL, plenty of trainers, just not ringcraft.

I would like to get the best instruction I can because I think our girl is gorgeous and is showing some potential.

I know what you mean, I always try to get to the match night now my handling's improved. Astounded myself last week by getting Reserve Best in Match!! :-) It's very addictive!

One of the ringcrafts I attended with Alfie got ridiculous at one point, there would be 20 + dogs there and only one trainer, we would spend all evening queueing and only get a couple of go's with no one to one really at all.  Another class we went to (which only runs for half the year) split everyone into groups so you had more one to one practice and the opinion and help of 3 different trainers. 

It looks like your breeder is being helpful though which is nice, its always good to have someone in the breed help out, especially if they are going to be there at shows to give you guidance too :)