Although in many ways we are suprised by how painlessly we are progressing with Nero as he nears the dreaded teenage phase, we have one concern regarding his offlead behaviour whilst out walking.  We have the majority of our walks on the local park and so far have not had too many offlead problems, we have a fairly reliable recall when dogs are not too close so I call him back and put him on lead as soon as we see other dogs then approach them onlead and I ask the owners if he can play (Which he usually can). 

Anyway the past couple of days Nero has become more independant and seems to be constantly on the look out for other dogs - to the extent of running a long way in front of me round corners etc. to see whats out there.  Although he does eventually recall he has to check first that there isn't something better to do round the corner.  Im getting worried that this running off is going to result in him getting into trouble, running up to an onlead dog before I see it for example.  Is this likely to just be a phase he's going through or do we have a more serious problem?  I cant possibly look out for him effectively when he's 200 yards in front of me! How can I encourage him to stick a little closer when out walking?  We are still going training every week and I regularly train at home and whilst out as well.  OH has started worrying me as his family had a red setter when he was young that regularly ran off and caused no end of problems - we're panicking now that Nero may turn out like this as well! 

Any advice or words of encouragement much appreciated! Rach x

It seems to me that his recall isn\'t reliable enough to be off lead, but you already know that.  It certainly could be a phase he is going through but nevertheless, it is possible that something nasty will happen to him before he gets through it.  I would suggest keeping him on a long line until he will recall even when he is distracted.

Ultimately, where you need to be is where, in his mind, there is no distraction that trumps coming back to you when called.  I would carry some really yummy treats or his favorite toy to reward him when he does recall away from a distraction.  If he won\'t recall, reel him in on the long line, then praise him.

Another option is one commonly used by gun dog owners, a shock collar.  A dog working 200 yards ahead of you is pretty much worthless if you are hunting and a shock collar can be used to get the dog\'s attention.  This seems to me to be exactly your situation.  Your dog is too far ahead of you and is distracted.  You need to get his attention.

Of course, some people see a shock collar as cruel and barbaric.  I suspect most people who claim that have never used a shock collar, and you need to take that into consideration when evaluating their advice.  To be honest, I have never used a shock collar either, but I have seen them effectively used by hunting dog owners. 

Aversion techniques absolutely can be effective in dog training.  I don\'t think anyone would dispute that.  What is open for debate is whether aversion techniques might be the best method to employ in a particular situation.

In short, don\'t let your dog off lead until you have developed his recall to where it is 100% no matter what the distraction.  IMO, what method you use to get there is up to you.  The end justifies the means, especially with something this critically important.

Good luck with your choices.

PS.  I have no idea why there is a \\\\\\\\ every time I use an apostrophe.  It only happens on this site and it does it with 100% reliability.  If only MY dog\'s recall were that good.  :-)

I think you have done an excellent job of teaching your dog that when you put on the lead there are other dogs are about and so he immediately looks around for what essentially you have taught him to recognise as a cue.........

I would suggest that you use a whistle to condition your dog to the sound ie whistle = food, if he is  a gundog that should not prove to difficult, this way you can have control a long way away as setters and pointers have a long range which means that being 200 yards away from you is not unnatural and, to some extent to be expected, as opposed to say GSDs who, IME, one spends more time tripping over! :D

Do you actually do something with him when you are out or do you just walk?

Going for walks should be an opportunity to spend lots of tiny sessions of training with a ball or food so that he focuses on you as the "entertainment centre" rather than looking outwards for stimulation. 

You could decide only to feed him when you are out, as opposed to giving him freebies in his bowl at both ends of the day.

Using long lines can be effective for some, I have never used them, but unless used carefully dogs can discriminate between when they are on or not, just like shock collars which I do not advocate at all, except in extreme circumstances.

HTH

>In short, don\'t let your dog off lead until you have developed his recall to where it is 100% no matter what the distraction.

I can see the soundness of this in theory. But in practice, you can still get to a point where you think your dog has 100% recall until you let it off the lead and it finds that this wonderful freedom offers all sorts of distractions. Especially during adolescence! Hence I get mine off lead in safe circumstances quite early on while constantly working on recall.

Hello

Thanks for confirming what I already knew - that is I need to train more until he becomes reliable 100% of the time.  Think we are a long way off yet but will keep trying!  Also have been working on a whistle recall in the house and garden but want it to be absolutely spot on before I risk ruining all the hard work outside.  Will try on the park without distractions and work from there.

Rach

Hi Rach,

As people have said you're obviously doing a great job - try and make yourself as incredibly entertaining as possible, I know how hard that can be when you've got a young dog that loves other doggies, it's a very hard thing to compete with.  But a charged ball, exciting treats as Tohme mentioned maybe something he only gets on walks, dancing around like a loon usually has my girl fascinated, I'm sure if she could say what is that idiot doing she would :-)

I'm never that sure about not letting your dog off lead at all until it's recall is 100% I totally understand the logic behind it but I think it's along the same lines as -  a teenager who has never been allowed a drop of alcohol is more likely to go stupid with it when they eventually get it, rather than a teenager who has been allowed little tastes regularly so it becomes no big deal.  Of course you have to be sensible and don't want him to go rushing up to on lead dogs etc, maybe you could arrange to meet in a park with a group of doggie friends that you know are friendly and let him have a play and when he has had a bit of a run around, call him to you, treat him with the yummiest treats possible and send him back to play with buddies.  Doing this repeatedly means he will learn that coming back to Mum doesn't mean the end of fun but something yummy in between fun and also means that he gets exposure to off lead dogs so it doesn't become quite such a big deal. 

Also teaching him the wait command - I have found very useful for my girl combined with the other training I have mentioned. 

I'm sure you will get there. :-)