We've got a beautifully behaved 4 year old dog plus a new 12 week old puppy who is completely exhausting!  She is not housetrained yet and has a tendency to chew anything she can get in her mouth so we have to watch her every minute of the day.  She has a crate and will sleep in it OK but once she wakes up she will bark incessantly and then get stressed and wet her bed unless we let her out.  She loves to play with the older dog (who is very patient) but again we have to watch them together incase the puppy gets a bit too much for the older one.  My question is, how long does this go on for and how do people cope without ever having a moment to themselves?  We haven't left the house for 3 weeks and are getting exhausted from short nights.  Is this normal?  How do people cope?

After sleep, play of feed you should always let a puppy out to spend a penny - thats the three main times that they need to go. As soon as she wakes up put her out - don't make her wait.

Hi, it does get better. Eventually :)

When she wakes up she will be desparate for a pee, which is why she is telling you. So if she pees in her crate it is your fault (sorry if it sounds nasty ;) ) if you aren't quick enough. Been there with my youngest (now 16 months old) She still has her moments, but I noticed that she calmed down a bit (quite a lot, actually) after her first season. The housetraining will only get better if you put in the hours now. Unfortunately that does mean getting up in the middle of the night until her bladder is capable of holding it all night. You wouldn't expect a baby to wait until you were ready, would you. That's why we put nappies on babies (oh I wish you could put them on puppies at night ) You cope because you know it doesn't last forever. Unlike having kids that end up waking you in the middle of the night when they come in from the night clubs ;)

Somehow the kids coming in late from nightclubs seems less of a worry...at least they won't poo on the floor (I hope!)

yes its normal!  Barking to get out to do a wee is surely a good thing and a sign that house training is working. watching the older dog and pup together is also neccesary. i suppose you have forgotten what a puppy is like after 4 years? you cope because you have to but dont worry- mine were settled by 8 months!!

We got our last dog only a year ago as an adult and she was already housetrained and has always been immaculately behaved - which is why the puppy is all new to us!  We read all the books and we are doing what you have all said to get the housetraining sorted out, but I must admit I hadn't realised that we would get NO time to ourselves!  You hear about people who go out to work all day having a puppy - how on earth does that work? At what age, roughly, do you think it becomes safe to leave the puppy and the older dog on their own in the house for an hour or two without total devastation resulting?  Don't get me wrong, I love her to bits, but it would be nice not to feel so exhausted all the time!

I think you should start going out and leaving them (puppy crated) as soon as possible, start with 15 minutes and build it up from there, I know they are all different but I was at home for 3 months when I got my pup and so by the time he was 4/5 months and i went back to work he was being left for 3 hours at a time no problem, he started holding his bladder through the night from about the same time.  From sharing experiences I might have had it easy, I remember being a zombie for the first 2 weeks with his crying at night though.

Yep, puppies are a fulltime job - and hard work at that! The more effort the owner puts in, the quicker the results will be. Don't expect to be able to leave your two dogs unattended together uncrated (and not return to devastation!) for many months.

When the puppy wakes up and barks you have a couple of minutes to get her outside before she'll have to wet her bed. As she gets older she'll be able to hold it for longer.

At her age I'm suprised she isn't sleeping a lot of the time. Usualy they get so exhausted that they just suddenly collapse. Has she got her own toys ?. That should help stop any chewing of things she shouldn't chew and if you or one of your family is at the other end of the toy then it will give your other dog some peace. As soon as she stops playing it's the sign she needs a wee. Put her in the garden straight away. After that she will hopefully be quite sleepy, put her in her crate and give yourself a break !.
Can you not leave her for a while when she's asleep in her crate, or in another room ?.

my 2 are 5 months old now. i got them both when they were 6 weeks old. it was incredibly hard. however they fitted into my life style very well as i dont go out, im in all day as i dont work and i am up a few times each night with my little girl anyway. so letting them out for wee at night was not so bad.

they do settle thougth. i have been lucky as my 2 have been really good. also i have been lucky that they have not chewed, they dont bark and they are good together.

peopel thought i was mad when i got 2 together. but if you are prepared to make the sacrifices and put the hard work in then it pays off.

I cant remeber my life before my pup who is now 5 and a half months.  Its like having a toddler!  She is crated at night, sometimes she sleeps through till 7am, somtimes 6am, and sometimes gets up at 4am for a pee.  There seems to be no definite routine with her and I am tired!!  She has her tea at 6pm, no water after 8pm and is crated at 10.30-11pm.  I think we put pressure on ourselves to have everything worked out at such an early age, and when things dont go by the book its very frustrating.  Our kids are now 12, 8 and 8(yep twins), we used to have lazy night and lie ins.....theyre all a thing of the past.....Im sure things get easier, just like kids do (well at bit anyway).  Stick with it and reep the rewards

It's easy to forget how exhausting pups are! My previous dog was 6 years old when I got him and although there were some re-training issues to tackle, he was positively soporific compared with my pup who I got at 8 weeks old last September. You will get there but be assured that all of them have some sort of behavioural trick up their sleeves ready to catch you out - especially if you make the mistake of thinking things have got easier!! In my case I had a very easy time on the housetraining front but am now having problems with recall!

Oh you don't know how good it is too hear from someone else in the same position !! We have 8 year old and 12 week puppy and I know exactly what you mean. We have settled in to a daily routine which should go like this.
5.30 get up and let puppy out before heating comes on and wakes up both dogs ( this avoids the morning " oh no she's pooed and walked it all over the place"). We don't speak to the dogs, just let them out then race back to bed.
7.15am get up have a play, then feed puppy.
8.30 am both dogs back in crate/box and settled.
9am. I go to the gym
11.30am get back, - as there is never any accidents, I think both dogs sleep this period.
midday. Feed dogs
1 pm Walk both dogs separately to give them both individual attention and play
2.30 -4 quiet time
4pm. toys and playtime
5pm feed puppy.
Evening. Both dogs generally play with toys, annoy each other etc etc
8pm feed puppy
9pm pup settles in crate and older dog gets time alone until bed.

Well thats the theory!! 

And my husband wonders what I have done all day !!

forget to mention this whole routine is interrupted every half hour to let puppy in garden just in case, and then another 10 minutes persuading her to come when called and go back in.

Hi bedruthen - it is good to hear we're not the only ones going through this!  it sounds like you have your routine pretty well worked out.  I'm inpressed that you can crate your puppy for 2.5 hours in the morning while you go out.  Ours doesn't sleep for as long as that so if we crate and leave her for any length of time and she wakes up while we are out, she will soil her crate in stress.  Also, does your pup really sleep in its crate from 9pm through to 5.30?  We have been staying up to midnight to let her have a late night pee and then she sleeps through until about 5.30 to 6am - which is a very short night for us!

You do say "we" ...

Do you take it in turns to watch the pup and give each other time off?  I do seem to remember our social life taking a dive in the early days but it soon passed and was well worth it. 

I seem to remember there was a point where our pup's bladder capacity increased and we didn't have to go out every 3/4 of an hour any more, it went to one and a half hours and it was such a relief.  After that, she progressed in leaps and bounds.  She also fairly quickly got to know the routine and mostly slept when the other dogs did, we just gave her more inputs during the day with little games and training sessions.

Having said that, compared to some people's experiences she was an easy pup.  Paid me back for it in her adolescence ...

we take it in turns on the early watch, but weekdays is me, and shared at weekend. Its only fair as I pestered for another dog.....

Sorry, my post was really aimed at Feebee - I'm a bit worried about how she's going to get out for food! :-D

Thanks for the concern Lillith, but thankfully we are not starving!  In actual fact I am out at work all day and it is my poor old husband who is coping with both dogs and is totally housebound.  I get home quite late and exhausted but do try to do my bit with the dogs in the evening.  In fact we have just been out for a Valentines drink at the local pub - my Mum came over to dog sit so we escaped for the first time in 3 weeks which was lovely!

Pups are definitely a hard slog - and it's easy to forget if we've lived with a fully trained sensible adult dog for a number of years just how much disruption they bring to our usual daily routines.  The good news is it really does pay off in the end and there is a life after the sleepless nights, house training, socialisation and all the other basics are eventually covered :)

Lab lover, I don't want to sound off at you but withholding water from your puppy after 8-00pm until 6/7-00am is potentially very harmful and serves absolutely no purpose towards house training.  Imagine how you would feel if you suddenly got thirsty but had to wait around 11 hours before you were allowed to quench that thirst :(   There are several bowls and bottles specifically made to attach either inside or outside of various crates if you're concerned that your youngster will either knock a bowl over or simply chew it.  Please don't deprive her of access to nature's most essential life source.

regards, Teri :)

   

well shes doing great on it Teri, thanks for your concern.  Her water is put down immediately when shes up at either 6am or 7am and she doesnt even bother with it.  I have to disagree with you on this one and hope that you wern't been judgemental, we are of course entitled to our own opinions. 

Hi lab lover

I wasn't being judgemental at all - merely drawing to your attention that withholding water has no place in house training and can be potentially harmful.  That you have a different "opinion" is fine but I would not like someone with a new pup to train to think that advocating such a method is either safe or serves a practical purpose.   I think you'll find that if you run a search on that subject on the forum that it's been discussed several times before and has yet to find favour but unfortunately your post is as likely to come up on a search by a new owner too.

It wasn't intended to offend you. 

regards, Teri

I think the problem with with holding fluids often isn't apparent initially, but later the bladder never learns to extend to it's maximum capability (this certainly seems to be what happens when children have water withheld) OR there is slow but steady damage to the kidneys......

I think some people on here take themselves far too seriously and knock peoples confidence when posting  Just to add to that I wasnt telling the original poster to stop giving water I was merely saying what my routine was.  Nobody on here is "qualified" to give advice, its just about our own experiences.  Also I think most people have the intelligence to make their own decisions.

I don't withhold water, but I make sure there's only a little bit in the bowl at nighttimes, in the hope that they will only have a sip or two if thirsty, not empty the bowl just because it's there (something my Yankee tends to do!). :-)

I am surprised you even consider withholding water is ok ?

I must admit I don't find withholding water an 'intelligent' decision :)

Check out the RSPCA's guidelines on the Care of dogs :)

http://www.rspca.org.uk/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RSPCA/AnimalCare/Animals&articleid=996827938002

It states a dog should have a constantsupply of fresh, clean water ;)

Sorry but I do think what you are doing is very wrong and by saying you do it gives out the impression to other people that it is ok :)

ok  thanks:rolleyes::rolleyes:

I don't understand why you are taking this so lightly ? Why do you think it is ok to withhold water ?

If you explained the reason why you do this to us as all you have said so far is that it is because of your routine ? :) Is this because it suits you rather than the pup ? I am sure the breeder of your pup would be interested to know why as well. Please do explain :)

Hi all

I thought that cutting her down from 2 mars bars to one would justify taking her water away!  I AM KIDDING!!

Yes you are probably right about the water and I am going to start leaving it down for her.  I take her water away usually when we go to bed to be fair which is usually 11ish.  She is fed JWB and a bit of nature diet.  I love my pup and only want to do whats best for HER!  Thanks for your advice - even though I was ganged up upon xx

Hey we all have to learn and we were all in your shoes at some stage ;)

Just make sure they are not deep fried Mars Bars :D

We didn't mean to make you feel 'ganged up on' :)

We know you love her and we all feel the same about our girls and boys but just want to make sure that people do not make mistakes ;)

No hard feelings? :)

no, No, NO, Noooo - don't make her go cold turkey on the Mars bars  :rolleyes: :D :D :D

Seriously, never been a doubt that you love your girl :)  Please don't feel ganged up on - it's genuinely not like that - merely a number of individual people sharing the same opinion.  We've all posted something and had a number of folks come back and say it's not the ideal way etc - goes with the territory on fora.  Don't let this instance put you off.

best wishes, Teri

You seem to think that restricting access to water is an acceptable regime. Why is this?

hi lab-lover,
Please don't think anyone is having a go, all they're doing is pointing that dogs should have access to water at all times.  The only time I'd take water away at night is if my dog were undergoing surgery the next day.  Just a thought - what food are you feeding at 6pm?  If it's a dry complete food you run the risk of serious health problems if you withhold water 2 hours later.  Just wondered if you'd considered that.
Regards,
Debs :)

Lab lover was asking about food a while ago and was feeding at the time a complete food, Bakers I think :)

That may well have changed but I am sure Lab Lover will let us know :)

In case it shed any light on this, we bought a book called "How to house train your puppy in 7 days" and in there I'm sure it recommends withholding water between certain hours overnight just for the one week when you are trying to enforce the regime.  Maybe that is behind Lab Lover's approach?

Quite possibly. :( It's a problem when people believe everything that's published, either on the net or as hard copies. Routinely withholding water is not good practice.

....and pointless.  The kidneys continue to produce urine anyway as long as the blood pressure remains high enough for blood to be pushed through them.  If the body becomes so dehyradrated that the reduction in blood volume leads to a pressure insufficient to keep the kidneys working you are in danger of causing damage to them.

Interested to know who wrote this as nobody can train a puppy in 7 days Training a puppy is a continuous process which goes on well into their adulthood and beyond :)

The danger is anybody can write a book and get it published but doesn't mean what they write is factually correct :) A puppies bladder will not mature in 7 days so not sure where the logic is in withholding water for a week ;)

We got it free when we bought "The perfect Puppy" by Gwen Bailey from Amazon.  It's called How to housebreak your dog in 7 days: by Shirlee Kalstone.  I think it was American...and it was pretty hopeless!

Now I might write a book on how to potty train a puppy in a day :D

It would contain this short paragraph :

Firstly hire a builder (if you are not into DIY) and knock a hole in the wall to a safe secure area for your pup to go out to. Fit a good secure dog flap. Introduce the puppy to the flap and show it how to get out and then back in. Hey presto you have a house trained puppy ! :D :D

That is how I have trained my last two puppies and they have always had fresh water available at all times ;)

If you are not as lucky to be able to do this then yes it will be hard work and you will have to run a round and clear messes up for a while but they soon get the idea ! :D

i feed her JWB and nature diet - didnt think Bakers was good enough

regards

Both of them I have fed my Labs with

Hope we can have a smillie from you, please as do really want to be friends ;) :)

:-)  would like to share a pic of my baby - if anyone interested I can send a pic via email

regards

she now has a water bowl attached to her cage at night.  She doesnt seem that bothered:rolleyes:Oh well, its there now - i did feel rather guilty after you all posted me, thought I was doing the right thing

Good for you for taking on board that everyone was only trying to help. :) Now you needn't worry that your dog will be unhappy due to thirst in the night; after all, there are plenty of other things to worry about without adding to them! ;) :)

Sorry to go back to this subject again, but I am worried now.  Our puppy is crated overnight and doesn't have access to water during that time for purely practical reasons in that there is no room in her crate for water.  I assumed that as she is asleep all that time that she would be fine.  Am I doing the wrong thing?

Is she fed a wet (tinned or fresh) food or a dry (dehydrated) food? The instructions on all the varieties of dry food say that water must be available at all times. Dogs fed a dry food need to drink much more than those fed wet, because wet foods contain about 70% water while the dry has virtually nil. And even dogs fed wet food get thirsty - the water in the food isn't enough for their bodily needs.

Our pup goes to bed at about 11.15 (She has her last dry meal at 7.30pm) and she has water up until she goes to bed in her crate - we don't put it in there as shes since found out the 'paddling' is fun and gets her bedding soaking wet - without fail! We get her up every two ours during the night for toilet training and ensure each time she's popped in front of her water to give her the oppertunity to have a slurp. In the 2 weeks we've had her she's never had any.

Is this incorrect?

We are following much the same routine.  The pup is on JB complete puppy food and drinks lots during the day, but when we go to bed she falls asleep she sleeps through to about 6.30 the next morning.....so I can't quite see any reason to leave water in the crate.  She doesn't seem to be very interested in water when she first gets up....

Feebee - your very young puppy is in even greater danger than slightly older ones :(  She has a tiny bladder and apart from the need to flush her system regularly and satisfy thirst *as and when she wants to* - what would happen if your puppy were to be be very sick and have diarrhoea during the night?   Young pups can become very dehydrated in a short period of time :(

>She doesn't seem to be very interested in water when she first gets up....

That's as may be - but why on earth take the chance on her health when there is no good reason for routine water deprivation and seriously bad ones for avoiding same

I can't honestly understand why anyone persists in putting an argument against fundamental good care!

Ditto :) :) :)