We are a family of 3 adults and one pre-school aged child with a beautiful 8 month old (small) Sheltie who was recently spayed.  We've had her for almost 2 months now and she's settling in brilliantly :D  She came from a breeder with approx. 8 other sheltie's in the home who were her playmates and companions.  We only have a middle-aged cat who won't even give her the time of day and she's just desperate to play with him bless her :rolleyes:

We have, from the start, considered having 2 dogs together as we've had 2 together in the past - there was over a year age difference between them and we got them 12 months apart.  We would like to get her a doggy companion/doggy playmate in 6-9 months time.  We don't want a 'puppy puppy' so would be looking for an 'older' pup which a breeder had run on but didn't meet the show/breeding 'standard' (that was the situation with our little sheltie girl).  After a lot of researching (done before we got our little girl) we particularly like CKCS & Beagles.  We have also met quite a few of each breed and feel they, like our Sheltie, would make great pets for our family.  We also considered the English Cocker Spaniel.

Anybody got any other suggestions or comments on the considered breeds?  We are looking for a small to medium breed (not miniscule though), not what you'd call 'powerful', with short to medium length fur, not a 'working type' (though we know some breeds have both working and show types) i.e. one that is happy to either walk for miles or simply having two 20-30 minute walks a day (like the Sheltie) and of course play time at home/in the garden throughout the day :)  I'm asking purely for advice - we have no intention of getting another dog until our current little girl is about 1 1/2 and then the 'new addition' would need to be either approx. 6-9 months younger or over 2

P.S.  We did look around the rescue centres (about 3 times a week for 4 months!!) before we got our Sheltie from the breeder whom we got our previous two from.  However, we want to know the exact background of the dog including its upbringing and whether or not its used to children and cats which obviously isn't 100% possible with rescue centres. Also we want to know that the dog has been bred well and that the 'line' its been bred from hasn't had any illnesses/ailments relating to the breed.  We will put our name down on the Breed Rescue list for the breed we finally decide on though as I know that often dogs are given up to them due to 'changes in circumstances' and they can have full background information on them dogs :)

Why not another sheltie? Our main breeds are sighthounds but we have had two shelties (a year the dogs between each time) for many years. They have always got on wonderfully well together and have been excellent companions for each other as the hounds tend to ignore smaller breeds.

We have decided that we don't want 2 shelties again and would like a doggy friend of a different breed this time.  Yes the two we had before were excellent doggy companions for each other but its just how we feel this time round.  Also, our little girl is sable & white like our previous girl (but she was light and our current one much darker and their personalities are totally different) and we wouldn't want another S&W.  So that would only leave the Tri-colour and Blue Merle.  Our previous boy was a Tri and I know that my parents simply wouldn't want another as he was the most perfect dog for them (with our little girl being quite different to our previous girl they were fine with that though but I just don't think the same would happen with a Tri).  They really don't like the blue's even though my Mam thought Tango (someone's "American" Sheltie dog on here) was absolutely gorgeous!  I personally like the blue's but I am quite fussy regarding which one's 'appeal' to me.  So, unless we found the 'perfect blue' (our opinion only) then we wouldn't consider it.  I've heard that some people want a re-incarnation of their last dog after its passed away but we wanted (and will want) as different as possible!  Nothing can replace our previous two and we didn't/don't want their memories overshadowing any we have now or in the future so that's why we're looking at other breeds for a companion to our much loved little girl :)

:)

P.S.  Black & White's are quite rare in Shelties so that's why I didn't mention that colour :)

American Cockers are a great family breed, adore both people and other dogs, fit your excercise criteria.  How much hair you retain is between you and your groomer, but kept in a smart puppy trim the home grooming requirement is less than for a sheltie.
bye
Gwen

I'm not sure really what to advise, but will give you my thoughts on the breeds you mention.

The CKCS is, after puppyhood, low energy.  If you wanted a dog which would literally want to walk for miles on country romps, then I'm not sure they would meet that criteria.  There might be exceptions to this, but that's based on the ones I've met.  They can also be quite shy and not into energetic playing with other dogs - and if you're getting this dog partly as a play mate for your Sheltie, that might not work. 

A cocker spaniel is a different kettle of fish entirely.  High energy.  As you probably know, working and show cockers are totally different.  If you want to be able to skimp on the walks sometimes, then I'd advise against a working cocker.  A show cocker would probably suit you quite well, I'd think.

Beagles are hounds and as such, are very interested in their noses and in scents.  The ones I've come across have been quite hard to train, compared to other breeds, and not the smartest of dogs (no offence to any beagle owners).  If you're used to Shelties, quick little things that they are, then this might frustrate you.

Out of all the breeds you mention, I think a show cocker would suit you best!  I haven't owned any of these breeds, and this is based on what I've seen of other people's, so bear that in mind too and take on board what others here say.

The CKCS is, after puppyhood, low energy.  If you wanted a dog which would literally want to walk for miles on country romps, then I'm not sure they would meet that criteria.  There might be exceptions to this, but that's based on the ones I've met.  They can also be quite shy and not into energetic playing with other dogs - and if you're getting this dog partly as a play mate for your Sheltie, that might not work.

Sorry to contradict you but the ones you know are the exceptions Low energy ????? Too shy to play with other dogs ? Not able to go for long walks went an adult ?

I think you are taking the fact they are classed by the KC as "toy" dogs way to literally.

My cavaliers & all those I know adore 99% of all other dogs & love to play & run. My two youngest keep up with my 9 month old working bred BC & love rough housing. In fact I often have to recuse the BC from them to make him rest

Sheltie mix well with Cavaliers two  of my friends have 12 shelties between them & my Cavaliers like nothing better than to get in with the sheltie pack & zoom around

Show cockers need a lot of grooming & no clipping to keep the coats in good order whereas a Cavalier is a lot like a Sheltie for grooming in that they have natural coats with a bit of trimming on the feet(under the feet in the Cavaliers of course)

I wish at times my cavaliers were low energy It would make my life a lot easier

Hmm, I did say:  "I haven't owned any of these breeds, and this is based on what I've seen of other people's, so bear that in mind too and take on board what others here say."  and: "There might be exceptions to this, but that's based on the ones I've met. "

What I said was based on many (probably about a dozen) Cavs that I have seen over time at training classes.  Their ages ranged from 1yr-4 yrs.  I do, however, have a very boisterous breed myself, so perhaps it just seems that by comparison they are quiet and unenergetic.  Or perhaps the dozen I've seen have been the exception, as I said.  Or perhaps they are introverted at training classes but lively at other times.  I can only report what I've seen and what my experience of them has been, and I made that v clear in my post.

Edited to say: peewee, it is best to spend some time around all these breeds and then you can decide for yourself how you feel about them.  What one person considers as lively, might not be what another person would classify as lively.  And so on for lots of other traits. 

My Cav pup - 23 weeks old is best friends with my friends 3 yr old Cocker spaniel. When I go round to visit they play so nicely together.

Dogs can behave totally differently at training classes & these should not be used for the dog to play but to socialize subtle difference

LOL many (probably about a dozen) Cavs Sorry 12 cavalier is not many it's a very very  few Gosh my dogs met that many twice & three times over in one class at a show

I wouldn't try to generalise about a whole breed if I had only ever been close up & personal to a dozen or so especially if it is a popular breed like a cavalier. If I was to do this I would be saying to people don't get a labrador as in my experience they are unpredictable & definitely iffy-I know this is not true as the dogs that come to training as adults & the ones I deal with are not typical of the breed having not been trained/socialised properly

Of course all the dogs I have had have been sedate & quiet including my Beardies, my GSDs, my Cavaliers & especially my working bred BC's so I wouldn't really know what it is like to own a "lively" breed :D Yer in my dreams I do not do what lots of people term boisterous ie bouncing around & somewhat lacking in control, however my dogs are certainly lively & outgoing. As anyone who has met my JD will certainly be well aware(he's the one with the malamute girlfriends)

BTW nowhere in your original post did you mention your experience is based on 12 or so pet dogs at training classes of one breed ;)

I don't agree that training classes "should not be used for the dog to play but to socialize subtle difference" - at a good puppy class there will be time for supervised, controlled, off lead play.  There's no difference at all between this "play" and play happening at any other time.  There's also little difference between a meet & greet on lead, waiting before a class, on a pavement, and outside on a pavement, NOT waiting for a class.

I'm not sure that 12 cavs is so few.  I'm sure that if anyone thinks up how many of any breed they have met, NOT at a show, and NOT a breed they own, it probably won't be much more than that!!  I'd be very surprised if you have met 12 labs and they have all been "unpredictable and iffy", unless you are meeting them in a rescue environment, as you imply. 

I deliberately didn't count the dogs I've seen at shows, because that's just a glimpse of each dog, not working every week for an hour with the same dog and owner and getting to know the dog - if I had counted shows, well, I can't even estimate how many I must have seen at champ and open shows combined.  But at shows you see glimpses of many dogs - you don't spend an hour with just one.

Whether cavs are high or low energy, outgoing or shy, the fact remains that peewee asked for our individual impressions of these breeds, and that's what I've given.  She now knows what that opinion is based on and can judge it accordingly.  You may disagree with my opinion, in which case that is your prerogative.  But I'm sure peewee would get a wider view of what this breed can be like if more people felt free to say how they see it, and weren't afraid of having their opinion judged "wrong" by breed experts when they speak out.  :)  By all means, post your own opinion about the breed and, like JG's does below, have it contradict what I have said, but please don't try to silence people who have different opinions to your own.

>at a good puppy class there will be time for supervised, controlled, off lead play><

Puppy classes a in puppy parties scenario fine, but IMHE allowing dogs to play & then expecting to learn how to train them constructively in the same place isn't always possible. Please note I write learning how to train(as in the owner)as of course training classes are about learning how to train the dog, going away & practising not for actually training the dogs.

I don't know what breed you have but cavaliers definitely mix outside the ring before & after classes at shows & as we have er rather large classes we send more than a couple of moments in the ring together & as they are highly socialable breed it is IMHE impoosible to stop them playing with most of the dogs they meet

It is interesting in the number of GSD people I know who have cavaliers as well as GSDs & they mix well.

I'd be very surprised if you have met 12 labs and they have all been "unpredictable and iffy", unless you are meeting them in a rescue environment, as you imply.

Hm living in the country surrounding by shooting land & having at least 6 roaming labradors belonging to uncaring owners at this time I think I've met a darn sight more that 12 labradors. For starting a local gamekeeper has a minimum of 15 at any one time all of which I know. However the ones that attend our training classes are the ones that have the iffy temps along with the local roaming ones The GK dogs are brilliant well trained & good temps hence me saying that I know that bad temps are not the norm in labradors, but at this moment in time I am seeing more poor labs than typical ones(we have about 9/10 attending traing classes each week & as we have several local "pet"lab breeders churning out puppies on a regular basis from iffy parents the resultant products end up coming for help )Do you get the picture now ?

Lots of people make sweeping generalisations about breeds based on their experience in the artifical situation that surrounds pet dog training classes. two reasons in general  people first go to pet dog training New puppy/dog or problem dogs. Very few people go with a  dog that is fully trained socialised before they get there.

"allowing dogs to play & then expecting to learn how to train them constructively in the same place isn't always possible"

That's why the play session is at the end of class, and not the beginning :)

I'm sorry to hear about the plight of labs in your area. 

However, had peewee asked about labs, and had you given the opinion that you thought they had iffy temperaments, and then given this explanation for your opinion...and had several other people then come along and said they disagreed and given reasons why - all would be fine and dandy.  Peewee could see where you got your opinion from, and if many other people thought otherwise than you, peewee could take that into consideration too.  :)  I just don't like laying down the law and implying that people don't know enough to have an opinion, or to express that opinion.  Everyone, whether they've met 1 cav or 1 million, probably has an opinion about them and should feel free to express it.  (And to have others disagree with it.)  That's what a forum is for. 

For example - now you and JG are claiming so vehemently that I'm wrong about cavs, I'm beginning to think that maybe I should reconsider them and look a bit more closely at them - maybe I have overlooked something.  If I had never posted in the first place, because I have "only" known about 12, then I would never have had this turn around and been encouraged to think again about them.  :)

I disagree with what you say about there only being 2 reasons people go to training classes - at my classes, you can only join with a puppy and progress through the classes.  They don't allow you to join at any age.  Other classes I have been to, the dogs in the advanced classes, where we are, are very well trained and socialised.  Perhaps in the "adult intake" class you would have problem dogs, but that would be the only class with a disproportionate amount of them.

at my classes, you can only join with a puppy and progress through the classes.  They don't allow you to join at any age. 

Ooh that wouldn't work here what happens to the rescue dogs acquired later in life ? let alone the novice owners who wait too long to attend. We have advanced classes as well but to deny someone assistance because of the dogs age :rolleyes: We get a lot of referrals via the vets despite the presence in the area of several"behaviourist"run classes probably because they charge so much & do so put front for"courses"

I did stress this is pet training that there are two reasons in general, not people wanting to compete in obedience etc

I wish in many ways that cavaliers were not in the toy group as they are very much still spaniels. Mine spend hours on point watching the birds they cannot get to through the fencing & JD brings in gifts of mice when he has half a chance. They make damn good watch dogs too ! My GSD rarely has to raise a woof She just looks imposing !

My sisters Cavalier KCS can walk as far as my Munsters can and she is spayed & overweight, ok she can't run as fast as them but she has energy to spare, it sometimes takes a 3 hour walk to knock her out!   After all they are 'spaniels'..............

Funnily enough based on the Shelties and Cavaliers I have known then I woudl ahve said a Cavalier woudl be an ideal freind for a Sheltie. 

Nice choice of colours to complement or contrast with the Sheltie.

I persoanlly like the Balck and Tan and Tri colours best :D  Not keen on the Ruby colour personally, and the Blenheim would match your sheltie nicely.

You could do mini Agility with both I think.

Cavaliers are still spaniels, and many behave just as other spaniel breeds. Low energy? I don't think so. ;)

The only cavaliers that seem slow are the ones that people ruin by treating them like little lap pets instead of treating them like DOGS, full stop.......... When mine were younger they walked for miles every day, did obedience and agility. At 11 with a bad heart Rufus still WANTS to do all of this, even though he no longer is physically capable of as much. Nothing on earth makes him happier than an obedience session. My kids love to set up mini agility courses indoors for my papillon using improvised jumps made of books and stuff, a tunnel etc. Rufus always joins in, he can't bear to be left out.

In Australia there is a breeder who takes part in Endurance trials with his cavaliers, where they run for HOURS! He even has endurance champions as well as obedience champions and many other titles on his dogs.

I understand exactly what people are saying about CKCS and that fact that they can be full to bursting with energy to use up.  Its like the Sheltie, but at the same time both breeds are happy with a more moderate pace of life as they are whats termed 'adaptable'.  If dogs are used to romping about acres of land on a daily basis then it would be cruel to have one in our situation - reasonable sized garden and house with 'short' walks etc.  This is exactly why we are looking for a breed that will be very happy in our home and we with it :)  The CKCS's we know are all 'used to' a similar way of life to ours and are happy, fun little things which is why we thought about this breed.  At the end of the day its what the dogs used to isn't it?  If it had been used to agility/hikes etc when younger then it would still want to them in its old age.  Whereas if it was used to a more moderate pace of life it would still want to keep that up....

Anyway, how would I go about finding out what shows were on around our area and when as attending shows to talk to breeders is something we've considered doing as it we believed it would benefit us?  At the same time we understand that we can't judge the breeds by what we see at shows cos they have been trained to be 'well behaved' in the show environment. :)

Thanks for the replies so far people :)

Just to add a bit more info about 'us'...

We aren't the type of people to walk for miles and miles which is exactly why we want a dog thats 'adaptable' - like the Sheltie.  Sheltie's are happy whether the owners have them out and about all day every day or with owners just having 2 reasonable walks a day with additional 'toilet breaks' and of course play time :)  This is exactly why we don't want a 'working type' of dog as it wouldn't suit us or the dog.  Its not that we want to "skimp on the walks" its that we aren't what you'd call an active family - we are probably termed as having a moderate level of activity.  However, we do walk our little girl along the beach and down by the river on a weekend (weather permitting!) :)  Oh, and she's car sick so we're seeking a remedy to be able to make travelling to and from the river/beach a more 'enjoyable' experience for her (any suggestions appreciated :) ).

The reason I specified the 'English' Cocker is because I know that they're fur doesn't grow as profusely as the 'American's', although the latter sizewise are a bit smaller.  If it was a case of having a 'Yankie' professionally groomed 2-4 times a year to maintain a 'manageable' coat then this wouldn't be a problem :)  Our Sheltie girl will be trimmed by my Dad when needed as over the years of owning our previous two he became a dab hand at trimming them - and made a blummin good job of it

I am fully aware that Beagles are scent hounds and that they love nothing more than having their noses to the floor.  Our previous Sheltie boy was exactly the same - he'd go into a little world of his own and loved nothing more than sniffing everything and anything the whole walk bless him.  Our little girl is proving to be pretty similar too!  This poses no problem to us at all.  We're teaching our little girl various 'commands', most of which she responds to 80% of the time, but don't expect her to jump through hoops or make the breakfast ;)  We use 'down', 'wait' (for something/before going across a road), 'stay', 'sit' (she doesn't have a clue with that one ), 'cross' (to cross a road), 'no', 'ah ah', 'do your buisiness' and 'go wee's' (encouraging her to toilet), 'settle down' (she's learning to lay down on a night when I say that ) and 'come' (a constant work-in-practice :rolleyes: ) but that's about it really.  Yes she is an 'intelligent' breed but we've always found our Sheltie's 'stubborn' and don't expect "miracles" anway so a 'slower dog' wouldn't be any bother :)

We don't believe that the fact a Beagle has its nose down to the floor 99% of the time its out of the house and can be 'irresponsive' to a recall would prove any problem for us as we're advocates of the extender lead anyway :D  I'd never let a dog off that I didn't know was a) going to come back when called and b) stay by me/within a comfortable distance of me.  We only ever used to let our previous dogs off the lead when we were in a 'secure' area (usually on a long, open field or when at the beach with no other dogs in site and no-where near a road) as they didn't have a wonderful recall and would bolt if spooked.  Even so we didn't let our dogs off for about 18 months after we'd got each of them as we wanted to be certain that they looked to us as their 'pack' and wanted to stick with us :)

Regarding meeting dogs of our 'considered breeds' and deciding how we feel about them we do try as much as we can.  I've know an American Cocker very well previously, have met a few CKCS and a couple of Beagles but the vast majority of dogs the family knows are terriers (all very lively bar one teeny weeny 5 year old Yorkie who is just adorable!), Labs/Goldies and mongrels...  With the CKCS the one's we know are fun little things and its funny cos 2 of them are actually 'paired' with Shelties (the Shelties are nearly the same size as them cos they're smaller than our little girl!) :)

Can't think of anything else to add at the moment so I'll stop with this essay of a post and await some more reponses :)

Thanks again!

Show cockers don't have the length of coat of a Yankee but they do need regular stripping(not clipping) to keep their coat looking good, otherwise they look dreadful & can take a lot of work to get right(my friends a groomer & one of her bete noires is the show cockers whose owners think twice a year is enough)

Personally I'd give your girl at least until she is 12 months + before embarking on another puppy of any breed. She'll be more mature & you'll have had plenty of time to find the right breed for you & her.

"Personally I'd give your girl at least until she is 12 months + before embarking on another puppy of any breed. She'll be more mature & you'll have had plenty of time to find the right breed for you & her."

I said in my original post that we don't intend to get another dog for atleast the next 6-9 months anyway so no worries there   Its just that it took us well over 5 months to find our little Sheltie girl so we're wanting to narrow things down and focus our 'search' on one or two breeds.  Hopefully then we'll be able to find the right dog for us and our little girl :)  The thing is we believe it quite likely that we'll end up with an older pup run on by a breeder (like we did with our little girl) as, because she was  young she has settled so well into our house and with our family.  With an older dog we would have to get one which we knew had been raised around a child/children of my son's age whereas puppies are generally more accepting.  So we'd need to be getting in touch with people to 'spread the word' that if any litters are planned/have been born with the intention of running one or two on then we'd be very interested in the one that didn't 'make the grade'. This of course could take 6-9 months which is why we're starting now :)

peewee, you seem to have done a lot of research into this and thought about it quite a bit.  I don't think you would go FAR wrong with any of the breeds you've shortlisted, to be honest.

Why don't you go to a show somewhere near you, where all these breeds of dog will be represented, and then you can have a chat with their owners by the rings?

I think a beagle might need more exercise than you're willing to give. I would have thought a CKCS was ideal for your situation.

>Why don't you go to a show somewhere near you, where all these breeds of dog will be represented, and then you can have a chat with their owners by the rings?

You are so very particular about your requirements, peewee (and I don't say this critically since if everyone did their research so thoroughly there would be far fewer unhappy outcomes) that what onetwothree says is absolutely the way to go. There's only so much advice you can get on the internet without actually going out, meeting the breeds that might fit your bill and asking face to face questions. Also think a CKCS would suit, by the way.

"You are so very particular about your requirements [...]"

There are a lot more breeds that we love (generally medium to large - Goldies, Labs, Newfies and Red Setters in particular) but know that, for our family, we need to be looking at the smaller breeds who would be more than happy living at our pace :)

And I can only repeat that this is an incredibly sensible course of action! I wish more people had your particularity, peewee!

Although of smaller breeds, I'm pleased to see you make no mention of Jack Russell Terrorists! :D

Not trying to throw a spanner in the works, peewee, but there ARE large breeds of dog which would be quite happy with the amount of exercise and pace of life you have described :)

Not the gundog breeds, I'd hasten to add...

But what about, say, a Bernese Mountain Dog?  (Draws a deep breath and waits for all the Bernese Mountain dog owners to protest!)  Other posters might have other suggestions...

I think it's a common assumption though, that the bigger the dog, the more exercise it needs - but it doesn't always work that way.  (Just look at working cockers!)

how about a Nova Scotia Duck tolling retriver they are not to big and not to small

I know quite a few tollers. They require a lot of input and are a very active dog. I wouldn't have thought they are what the OP is looking for :)

Daisy

I'd also recommend either the Cavalier or the American cocker. Both my Cavaliers are happy to go for 2 or 3 hours walks, and one of them has climbed several hills and a mountain with my OH. But if it's raining they are only too happy to curl up on the sofa, or on a lap, all day. They are friendly and outgoing with almost all dogs and people, and are just so loving! My Yankee was somewhat more fidgety than the Cavaliers, but since we had him neutered he is a lot calmer. Again, he regularly goes for several hour long walks and climbs with my OH, but is happy with the 20 or 30 minutes he gets on a workday at home. Although the Yankee hasn't got a full show coat, neither he nor the Cavaliers take more than 5 or 10 minutes to brush through and make sure there are no knots developing, after an average walk round the park. If they've been for a long forest walk they do collect twigs and leaves quite a bit, but as someone else said, you don't have to keep them in full coat, a bit of work by yourself or a grooming parlour with some thinning scissors on the feathering should keep them under control. :-)

or a little poodle? great dogs!

i think a whippet- readily accepts exercise, and your sheltie coulf have a good run with too! great companions are whippets, i have a mate who runs rescue-  when she gets a dog thats a bit shy in- she kennels it with a whippet and they come out of their shell- i just think they're nice dogs?

I agree, a nice little whippet would be fun. Kids love them. They like to play and run and are friendly and gentle. They are also quite happy to snuggle up with a friend in front of a nice fire or sit quietly at your feet..

Thanks again for all the replies! :D

We did actually consider the Toy Poodle (its a better size than the Miniature with having a young child in the house).  We know that their fur can be cut into a 'lamb cut' which is more appealing to us than the pom poms ;)  I've met only one poodle and that was a 17 year old Miniature who was THE most friendly and lovable dog I've ever met (in a very laid back kinda way).  The concern with the Toys is that they're smaller than our Sheltie and we nearly break our necks from her getting under our feet/behind our legs :rolleyes:

The reason we have not really considered the larger breeds is not because we believe all of them to need more exercise than what we are looking for, but because of the prospect of it knocking over my young son or us having to lift it   Our Sheltie is far too light to even unbalance my son let alone push him over with one wag of her tail and we can lift her very easily with one arm :D  My Dad has a bad back, my Mam is only 4' 10" and I'm just weak and feeble so...  We know that they're are 'show types' of Labs and Goldies and we are infact still down on the Guide Dogs rescue list (we got on it before we got our little Shetlie girl) but it would have to be a very gentle and quite laid back dog (not to mention one that would quite happily get in and out of the car without 2 people having to lift it) for us to consider something of that size and 'power'.

With regards the Cockers and CKCS our main concern is the grooming which is exactly why I asked if anyone new of any other breeds as we're really hoping a short(er) haired breed will prove to be 'right' as a 2nd dog for us   We are obviously familiar with the grooming needs of the Sheltie and meet these no problem (we find it pretty easy to be honest but maybe thats just cos we're used to it ).  However, we've read/heard from breeders/owners that the ears of both the Cocker & CKCS need a lot of looking after and that the fur of the Cocker needs trimming every 6-8 weeks to maintain a 'manageable length'.  Is this true?

Whippet wise - I know this sounds awful but they really don't appeal to me or my Dad as we like a more 'cuddly' dog (i.e more meat on them) if you know what I mean.  I have to say though that my friend used to have a Whippet and she was very nice natured - they're just not our 'cup of tea' really :)

The reason we haven't considered any of the Terrier's is purely because we know that they are 'working types' and generally very energetic.  I have known a couple of JRTs, Yorkies, Westies and Borders over the years and have to say that all of them were pretty sound dogs and didn't chase any small furries, but I believe this to be the exception to the rule - we'd end up with a hyperactive nutcase knowing our luck ;)

Anymore comments/opinions would be greatly appreciated :)

Just realised I've got my poodles (Toys & Miniatures) the wrong way round but you know what I mean ;)

i always get them confused too!
ive seen a oversized "middle" sized one,it was lovely,bigger than a sheltie

Yeah the miniature one is the 'middle' sized bizzarely haha

To keep Poodles in the 'lamb cut' how often is it recomended they be clipped?  I've read every 6-8 weeks which is a very short amount of time.  Can any Poodle peeps shed some more light on the situ please?

:D

I don't take my dogs to the groomers at all! My 2 Cavaliers are untrimmed and in full show coat, but as I said, they only take 5 minutes to brush every other day to keep them neat. If you don't want the full feathering you can learn to trim it yourself with a pair of thinning scissors, just to keep the coat from trailing on the ground. Same with the American Cocker really, although admittedly my boy doesn't grow his coat properly and has a permanent natural puppy trim. I learned to do an approximate trim myself with a cheap pair of clippers and the Mike Gadsby 'how to' video, which kept him tidy enough for a non-show standard dog. I've never groomed a Sheltie but have done some rough collies, which I imagine have fairly similar coat? My spaniels are much easier to do than the rough collie anyway! :-)

Thanks for the advice about trimming LucyD - will bear that in mind :)

We are still researching as many breeds as humanly possible to see if there may be some more 'options' to consider but all opinions/advice is still wanted and much appreciated :D

Just 'bumping' it cos we're still very interested in everyone's comments/opinions :D

german spitz are nice,very clever & trainable,but prob too much coat for you?

Australian terrier.....just love my boy so much that reckon if you look up the breed you would soon see why.

I'm sure your Aussie is absolutely delightful!  One of the main reasons we 'discounted' the Terrier group is because they are generally busy little dogs that have a lot of energy and we're looking for something that will be happy living at a more moderate pace of life like our Sheltie   We just feel that Terriers are too hyper for us but thanks for the suggestion anyway :)

We do like the look and sound of the German Spitz (my particular fave is the all-over brown) but yes it is more fur than we were hoping for but thanks for your suggestion anyway :)

Just to clarify the main reasons for our choice of 'moderate' energy and exercise requirements in breeds...

Its not that we're a lazy bunch of so-and-so's and sit around on our backsides all day, its that we don't want a whirlwind of high-energy dogs going on aswell as a 4 yr old child in the house (they would simply be like a self winding mechanism :rolleyes: ).  The more 'laid back' (for want of a better phrase) breeds are better suited to us both in personality and also in levels of physical activity outside the home :)

Why we would prefer a shorter coated breed...

We are very used to the grooming requirements of the Sheltie (we've had 2 previously and now have our little girl) and as a family are perfectly able to trim her fur as and when needed.  However, with another breed of dog we know that it would take some years before our knowledge and confidence rose to a level whereby we could 'do it ourselves' so to speak.  We aren't a family with even a medium income but take our pets very seriously.  I am a full time student and mother of one, and my parents had to take early retirement due to various health problems.  We know what we can afford (don't panic, we can comfortably afford to feed, insure, vaccinate, worm, flea, buy toys and treats etc etc) but trips to the groomers every 6-8 weeks would be stretching the pennies somewhat...

The German Spitz's also seem to be a tad more 'high energy' and 'stubborn' than we are looking for ...