Hi
Need advice regarding the rules and regulations. I have imported a top quality giant breed from Russia and have had him in quarantine for the last 5 1/2 months, he is pretty well adjusted and we have bonded as I see him every other day. I had hoped to have a litter from him this year with a crossing with my 4year old female. I have been campaigning my female and she has done well in numerous shows including crufts. I am specifically not mentioning the breed as she is well known in the show circles. However she has come into season and as per my calculations she will be ready for amating in a week. However my imported dog has 2 weeks to go for the 6 months to complete. Is there any way I can get her mated by him? Is there any way I can be able to get him released a week earlier? Any suggestions would be welcome. My female has 1 season a year and I would have to wait till next year and she will be 5 yrs. I have specifically imported this male after researching his bloodlines and he perfectly complements her and the litter would be one I would like to have. I am not keen to get her mated by another dog as it is too short a time to research the available studs and I do not like to have a litter simply for the sake of a litter.
All positive advice welcome.
Thanks

Sorry but there's no way.  I know it's annoying but you'll just have to wait until next year.

I can tell you that although it seems annoying and frustrating, I have a rare breed too, it's worth it in the end!!!

AI ?????

I don't know the definitive answer to this, but in my opinion, quarantine is quarantine and I think it would be wrong to break the rule, which is I believe 6 months, not five and a half. So it's incredibly unlucky, but rules are rules. If you are very lucky though, maybe the bitch will not actually be ready until later in her season.

Just my thoughts. :)

No michelled, AI would be out too. The KC have rules about the stud being either abroad or dead, so quarantine is unfortunately a no mans land.:rolleyes:

Dawn R.

such a shame,just a week out. lets hope the bitch is late

Have no idea about this, but ... "dogs, who'd have 'em". :rolleyes: If you want them in season, they don't come in, if you want them to wait ...

I'd speak to the quarantine kennels and/or DEFRA - perhaps the kennels are able to take her in for a week and if she hasn't left the country and the import completes his quarantine OK, she could then come straight out? Maybe not, but I'd be asking people who know all the rules to see if I could find a way round such an irritating problem.

The only other thing I can think of - and again, no experience and have read negative feedback - have I heard people say you can give an injection to stop the season now and she'll come back in soon? Have heard horror stories, so probably not a go-er unless you literally wouldn't be able to mate her next time and were very careful to watch her health. As I say, don't think many people would recommend this and don't remember exactly what circumstances I've heard it referred to.

What a pain!

M.

The KC has changed the rules, can't remember how at the moment, but know that you can get special permission. Ask the KC they are the people who know.

I wouldn't normally risk interfering with hormones, but maybe you could have an injection to delay her season?

As I understand it if it is given when a bitch is just about to come in season or first shows signs it can delay it for several weeks or more.

I would then have premate tests done when she does come in season to pinpoint ovulation and to ensure that it actualy occurs.

If it all doesn't work you would still try again next year.

Contact a reproductive specialist asap.

This article http://www.norfolkterrier.org/articles_a-e/currentissuesinreproduction01.html shows that fertile estrus can be induced as long as it is at least 4 months since the bitch was in season.

It looks safer than delaying a season.

WOULDNT START MESSING WITH HORMONES, SHE MIGHT NEVER COME IN AGAIN.

6 mths is 6 mths, she could go into the kennel, but then she would have to stay there for 6 mths.

A1 could be possible, pm if you want some ideas.

You can only use frozen semen in the UK, and it has to be quarantined for 6 months.

Oh no, what a dilemma.

Hunkylad - I would pursue the idea of AI.  I know it's supposed to be used only when the dog is abroad, but to all intents and purposes is IS abroad (ie totally inaccessable).  I know there are lots of other rules such as those Brainless mentions, but it's still worth at least checking.  Has your bitch had a litter before naturally?  If so, the KC might be more inclined to look favourably on AI.  Anyway, you can but ask, and I think you've got more chance of AI than of anyone allowing the bitch to visit the stud.

You can't use Imported semen fresh

I know nothing about breeding dogs, but I know women can take pills to delay their periods which I have taken and it didnt stop them permanantly (unforntuately).  In theory it should work for dogs.  It might be worth talking to your vet about it.

There is an injection to delay a season, however I wouldn't advise it.  I've heard of many bitches who have been given it developing pyometra later. 

I have also heard about a few bitches not coming in season for nearly 18 months after having the injection.I wouldn't mess with the hormones myself.

i think will will sll just pray for her to be abit late. the power of positive thinking!
all the best

from what hunkylad says, his bitch is already in season ;)

That is why I sugested the safer option of bringing her into season early after four months or so, as she is a once a year cycling bitch.

I know nothing about breeding dogs, but I know women can take pills to delay their periods

Yep, I did that, it gave me a blood clot in the lung and very nearly killed me.

Goldmali, I did it too, for seven years to resolve a medical problem, and I'm fine.  Just to give the good side of the story.

Goldmali, I did it too, for seven years to resolve a medical problem, and I'm fine.  Just to give the good side of the story.

True, but in my case it actually went to court along with 200 others...... It was proved that the pill made it 1.5 times more likely for a blood clot to appear, unfortuantely we had to prove it was 2 times more likely to be awarded any damages. :( It was in all the papers.

That is terrible Goldmali, what brand of pill was it?!

I honestly can't remember the name now, it is a few years ago (the case lasted years), but it was one of 7 "second generation" pills that was in the media a lot. The court ruled they increased the likelihood of a clot, in particular when compared to others, but not quite enough for them to be withdrawn or anything.

Marvalon/mercilon, were two of the second generation pills that were band.
I have been on various ones for 12 years bar about 3 for kids and operation and think I should stop. But dont want any more children but am too young tp be sterilised. Not had too many troubles apart from break through bleeding and having to change the brand!!!
Lea :)

May I suggest you consider asking about the IUCD.

My apologies to everyone; I did not mean to change the direction of the original post but I made a mistake and now I need to clear it up.  I just meant to say that I was on something that causes menses to stop (for seven glorious years) but I was not on "the pill."  I was on Lupron Depot, monthly injections.   It is not without it's side effects, (what is?), and has it's detractors, but it worked wonderfully for me.  So I wonder if there is an injection that would do the same for dogs?

I am aware of the potential for "the pill" to cause blood clots.  Sorry you had to go through that but thank you for being part of the group that helped to make the medical community and all of us aware of the risks.

Hello
First of all I would like to thank you all for all your support, suggestions and advice.
AI- As was mentioned the KC will not allow use of semen that has not undergone a 6 month quarantine.
Injection- Having spoken to my vet and been told of the complications, am not prepared to subject my baby to it as she far is more important to me than any litter.
The most sensible option would have been to have her in the kennel along with my new lad until he came out, however it would have been easier to get Sadaam to become a benevolent missionary working in Africa!
It is a pity people do not understand the purpose of the quarantine. Rabies is transmitable by any warm blooded species including rats, bats etc who could always hitch hike a ride across the channel, I'd like to see a DEFRA agent asking for petpassports from rats coming across on the ferry at calais.
This is what I tried to explain to the kennel owner, plz tell me why I am unable to get through to him....is there any other way i can phrase it.
UK is a rabies free zone and my female would thus be able to go into a kennel with my dog who already had satisfactory blood tests at the start if his quarantine and at 3 monthly intervals and 3 weeks ago. To transmit rabies the animal has to be suffering  from the disease and if he does not exhbit any signs for the rest of the 2 weeks he is in kennels then he won't get it, and if he was to get it he would have failed his quarantine and be PTS, I am taking the risk and putting my female with him for the last week of my lad's quarantine and if he is disease free at the end of the week he could not trannsmit it to my female nor is he infected, thus both can be released without any problem.
The 6 month limit is an extreme case range and is the extreme end of incubation, normally rabies will start in 10-14 days if dog is infected. I do feel that the stance taken is not based on knowledge, but done blindly.
I have decided that if I am unable to make the kennel owner/KC understand that there would be no breach of quarantine if my female was to go in during my lads last week of stay, I will not be mating her with any other dog.
This will be her first litter. The good news is that I can now take her to crufts.
Thanks again

I am afraid it isn't the kennel owners decision, he simply cannot break the rules. 

I know they don't make sense, as the pups of a bitch that whelps in quarantine can be released at 8 weeks of age :(

I can take my bitch to be mated abroad and bring her back, but if I want to fly the dogs fresh chilled semen to the UK to use on my bitch the Government (Not the KC) still require it to be deep frozen and quarantined before it comes to the UK.

The KC only insist that AI is used from a dog that has sired naturally and the semen is used on a proven bitch, and the dog must not be UK resident or if dead under 15 years since he was born.

Friends recently imported a dog, and his chip could not be found, now you would think they could chgeck his blood and if it had the required titre level then he could stay in quaratine until the results come back.  No he had to go in for 6 months or go back home and start the long Pets travel arrangements again, wasting yet another 7 months.

Hi Barbara,
I should have clarified that I was speaking in general when I refered to kennel owner/KC, it includes the DEFRA as well, it needs at least one of them to appreciate my point of view to be able to start a dialogue with the other 2. I do not want to be in a situation where KC could say pups were not registrable, or kennel owner refuse to accept a verdict from DEFRA, it needs all 3 to agree.
I feel some of the regulations are archaic and I am seriously considering going to court, it will not help in my case as it will be months before it gets heard, but would, if successful, set a precedent or at the very least make the DEFRA examine the regulations again. However I have heard through the grapevine that regulations are going to change anyway to comply with EU regulations where quarantine periods are far shorter, but am not sure how true it is as the DEFRA agent I spoke to was unable to confirm or deny it.

Inicidentally had a look at your website... you've got lovely dogs. :-)

There are moves to shorten the quarantine period to 21 days just long enough to do blood tests etc I assume.  But of course we are talking about government legislation here and it is likely to not be for another two years.

Look how long we have had the Pet Passport scheme yet they still require semen to be frozen!

Teh poor Kennel owners have nothing to do with it,a dn in fact they are being given a hard time by DEFRA.  Those who have reduced numbers of dogs going into Quarantine cannot even use the surplus space for boarding even if they divide up the building with double locked barriers.

The Quarantine system is entirely privately run, but no compensation was given to kennel owners for loss of business.

how can you leave a bitch and dog unattended for a week? what if they damage each other mating?

SallyK, if they were to have been allowed, they would have been supervised just as if they would be outside with a responsible breeder. I did not bother about the fine details in my previous msg as it was the priniples involved in the situation I was trying to get across.

Why do you really think the Pet Passport was brought in?  I don't think it was to make us animal owners happy more that animals such as bats, rats etc. were and are coming in via the CT and the authorities I am sure would much rather the pet owning community get the blame and not the animals that are coming in illegally if certain illnesses were spread!

Well someone stated this to me soon after the CT was opened!

Makes you think doesn't it?  And I actually think I believe them!

Hunkylad - all that you say about quarantine is true, but quarantine means keeping the dog seperate, if the bitch goes in then the quarantine is breached, I can understand why the kennel owner might not be willing to do this - and are you sure you would be able to take her out?
I did suggest you messga eme for another suggestion.

Hi Bazb
I am new to this site and not sure how to message. I was given this link by a friend who visits the site regularly, I'll ask her when I see her next.

To spanishwaterdog,
I agree with you. I am positive that just like the train lines, there will be rats and other rodents running in the eurotunnel. They do not check and it will simply not be possible to stop them crossing and breeding. Thus all the quarantine is really a farce as unlike pets which can get vaccinated, wild animals cannot be controlled.
You are probably right, they are leaving the door for a quick action in case any rabies case comes in, they can then close down the petpassport with fanfare and get kudos for being decisive!

Hi hunkylad, What a shame i really feel for you i cant suggest anything as i dont know alot about the subject and most things have been said. But fingers crossed it all works out for you and we will be seeing some champion puppies in the ring in the near future!! :D Good luck and let us know what happens. :)

sarah xxxx

That's really bad luck. Keep your fingers crossed and try to mate them as soon as you get him out, just in case it's not too late. Otherwise we'll be keeping our fingers crossed for next year! :-)