I can't get my head around why they have both these classes at open shows sometimes can somone explain what I am missing:rolleyes:

I understand the AV if they win the class can't go through to the group , you have to win the AVNSC so why have both..?

I have read the rules and regs, I just don't see why a show doesn't just have the AVNSC.

Because there are muppets like me that like doing AV classes :D
My breed is commonly classified at shows but I also like doing the extra
classes against the group that my breed belongs to :)
Also more often than not the breed and AV judge are different so it's good
experience for young dogs.

:-D  :-D  I keep thinking it is something simple like this BUT then I think the KC always makes things more complicated that this so keep thinking their must be another reason ;-)

You don't see it often , Well I haven't seen it often and often think it shouldn't be there BUT hey if someone likes it then we better not ;-)

Well I often enter the breed classes ans AV hound classes, especialy if it is a different judge.  I hate it when I have only the option of breed or AVNSC and no variety classes, which is what AV's are.

AVNSC is where you enter a dog without breed classes.  AV is where there are classes for your breed which you have to enter, unless it's a veteran of course and if you want a bit of practice and to put them in more classes :d  Of course you can withdraw if you win your breed BOB or BP.

AVNSC = Any Variety Not Seriously Considered :rolleyes: ;)

Now i'm confused, LOL  Can i enter AV hound if there are not breed classes for my dog? 
There aren't many breed classes for mine so usually i just go in AV Hound and the AVNSC.

Hi Paulaj,

You can enter AV classes whether there are breed classes or not.  You have to enter breed classes (if they are on offer) however... not just AV.  The exception to this being AV Veteran or AV puppy (IF there is no puppy class for your breed).  If there are no breed classes and you win an AV class you will not be able to compete in the group (unless a puppy - in the puppy group only).  The only dogs eligable to compete in the adult group are the winners of BOB and the Best AVNSC winner.  Confused yet? ;) LOL it seems difficult to follow at first but you'll get your head round it eventually :D
As you've said you don't have many classes for your breed then to get to the group you'd have to win best AVNSC not AV, but yes you can go in both.

Debs

If the show is on the Group system you hasve to go in the breed or AVNSC classes, unless the dog is a puppy and there is no breed/AVNSC puppy class.  Veterans ans Champions do not have to go in breed/avnsc classes, but if they don't they can't compete in Group or BIS competion, but on a non group system they can if they are unbeaten dogs.

I've never understood why people call it "AV not seriously considered".  I can see why they used to ;) But remember that now you have to award CCs in at least one breed to be able to judge these classes so you can be a little more certain that the judge will at least have some idea of what makes a decent dog ;).  Most of my group wins have come from these classes as we rarely had breed classes so they're more than considered :D.  To be honest I'd rather go in the AVNSC class at a Ch show (under a judge that awards Ch show groups) than have breed classes with no CCs under a novice judge.  Have seen waaaay too many cock-ups with novice judges sending untypical exhibits forward to the group.
Debs

Entered one AVNSC with Loki, as a pup - and the judge came up to me & said "but isn't she a border collie :D?"  No, I said, she's an Aussie.  Oh yes, said Judge - an Australian Sheepdog :rolleyes: .   Went back to confer with steward ;)

Margot

A friend entered AVNSC with her Kooikerhondje - now that flummoxed the judge! At least he had the honesty to ask what it was, and shouldn't it be on the table? (No! ;)).  The dog got a good place, but the award was meaningless - after all, what standard was the judge using when he didn't even recognise the breed?

JG sorry to say but your friend shouldn't of been there and entered AVNSC.  They can only go to a show if there's AV import register, if there isn't then their dog stays at home.

Surprised that the Club, the judge and the steward didn't realise this!!!!!!!

?????

Surprised that the Club, the judge and the steward didn't realise this!!!!!!!

Yes this should have been spotted by the secretary at time of entries.  If noticed for the first time at a show it should be pointed out to the exhibitor by the committee.  But the only authority to stop someone exhibiting their dog in any class at a show is the Kennel Club.  No-one can stop you taking your dog in any class at any show whether it's entered in it or not and the judge has to judge it fairly.  Whether you get disqualified afterwards is another thing ;)
Debs

Yeah but it does state in the rules (says me who broke one recently :d) that an import register breed can only go in import register and no other class.  The steward, the judge and the Club would have the authority to remove the dog from the class.

I actually think it's a pain up the backside and it hasn't done what it was supposedly set up for in my eyes!  Though in many ways I'm glad that my breed took a number of years before becoming popular as unfortunately I htink it might do soon.

The steward, the judge and the Club would have the authority to remove the dog from the class

Actually no they wouldn't.  The only authority is the Kennel Club who would naturally disqualify any wins afterwards.
Debs

They can and do have the authority to remove a dog for a number of reasons so I'm sure that for such a simple thing like this they definitely could.

It's not the first time this has happened though because there was once a Dogue de Bordeaux that entered at a Champ. Show and I think they did quite well some time back.

Oooh nasty LOL.
But how do you know that the person judging your breed only knows what it is because it says so on their judges slip? ;) LOL
Debs

This is why I actually prefer to go in AVNSC than have breed classes at our local Open shows, after all I know and have been against the same dogs time after time, and we end up swapping the honours (under judges we haven't even heard of) as we all locally have dogs that have won CCs so any of them could go BOB.  At least with AVNSC you get some new competion, and hopefully a morte savvy judge.