I have had enough! I have posted before about my dobermann ( 13 months old) recall going astray, I have walked him on the lead since my last posting. we have gone back to basics like everybody told me to do and everything has been fine today I let him off the lead for the first time and what happens? away he goes 40mins I was searching for him. I don,t understand it in the house he is fantastic he obeys all commands, but as soon as we go out of the house its as if he he doesn't know me.
He will not eat treats when we are out but in the home he can't wait to get them, we tried a whistle that had no effect at all, he will not chase a ball and retrive he just is not interested. I have had 3 dobes before this one and I have never had this problem before
any more advice would be gratefully recieved

I've missed your earlier posts, and I'm sure the experts will be on soon to help. Just wondered, I assume you've tried him on a long line or at least an extending lead in the park, and recalling him every now and then from the long line, then sending him out again?

Hi yes we have done all that,  I am getting really concerned about him he is just not responding in the way I am used to dobes doing, he is really hyper active when out, always scenting and easily distracted but also very submisive he goes staight down on the ground if another dog approches him.

what is going on with dobermans? i have just been going through posts on the site and there seems to be a  problem with their recall, I can honestly say the past dobes I have had, that hasn,t been a problem but it has been 8 years since my last  untill this one. I have just read a few different postings some old some new  all mentioning the same problem,. I though I was alone but obviuosly not

Sorry, no personal experience of Dobes but all 3 of our Vizslak have, at one time or another, gone through a stage of poor recalls.

I had a great piece of advice from an experienced trainer once ''Unless your dog really wants to be with you then he will keep running off in order to enjoy himself'' So they key is to make you, to a certain extent, the centre of your dogs universe. Sounds simple to say, training isn't about routines, when a dog truely knows a command they will do it whatever, wherever and no matter how many interesting distractions/smells are about. Of course, this means alot of hard work!

Also remember that your boy is well and truely a teenager, my young man is 14 months and we've been through what I hope is the worst of his lack of recall....hope I haven't spoke too soon :D

I'll PM you to save wittering on forever on this thread, hope I can help :)

When i was younger i had a Lab who refused to recall until she was about 2 years old -It drove me nuts and there were sooo many times when i felt like giving in. i kept at it though and practised all i learnt at training class again and again. Eventually she calmed down and her recall ended up being excellent it just took longer to master than with any other dog i've had!
Sorry i cant be much help - I just know how embarrasing and frustrating it is when your dog completely ignores you!

yes i have been there, just hang in there with the long line system and give him fantastic rewards like liver, chicken etc stuff he never gets at home. i never thought i would get there with mine, but we are nearly there, dont give up.

Hi,
I would imagine if you have just kept him on the lead for a good while if you suddenly let him off he is going to run off to explore.

Is he ball or toy orientated if he isnt interested in food.(food as in proper sausages or strong smelling meats or fish ) ......biscuits or cheese wont do the trick.

I would get a tracking lead to give him a bit more freedom .I would keep calling him back to me and treating but with you still being in control.

somedogs also react to the click of the lead being released sometime trying two leads clicking one off but still having one one can stop this.

Also go back to basics again with recall I still practice this with my girls in the house (my oldest is 2 and half) just have some treats handy throughout the day and call them to you in a happy voice make them sit and treat then say go play.
My dogs have perfect recall dont wander in the park and never take thier eyes off me (ignore other dogs).....cause I have the ball! LOL  :)

Roni

I think dobes love to run, I remember seeing one practising a search square, he was off like the wind and not in the square either :D

I noticed you've been probably had this problem since December so it's not that long. What i'd do is, find out what totally floats his boat and use that  to get him addicted to you. Whether it's food or a toy. You can train a dog to like a toy, again it takes time but once you've done it they will be eager to be with you usually :)

Long line training etc can be brilliant but, you can't have him on the line and then let him off, is this what you did? Sorry not sure, if it was, but youwould need to be training all this time, every day, from December to see benefits. By training I mean, involving either toys or special food rewards, insisting on him paying attention to you with your voice and so on.

Also, you gradually cut the line and let him trail it, and over time cut it shorter so that he gradually gets used to more freedom.

Do you literally put the line on and then walk? as one of the biggest and IMHO gravest mistakes any one can make is to just walk the dog and not interact with that dog on every walk. For example, I train every day for part of my walk and that is the most enjoyable bit for my dog :)

I'd suggest maybe getting a very experienced reward based trainer to help you out and come on a walk with you :)

If you post your rough whereabouts, maybe someon can suggest someone? I'd actually fork out for an hour with a top trainer (not necessarily an obedience trainer, someone who can help with problem dogs and has hand son experience).

Good luck!!

Lindsay
x

Well where do I start, no it isn,t the first time we have let him off but each time time we have we have had trouble getting him back today was worst!
I can honestly say that he is trained every day on the long lead and at home and he responds but let him off the lead and thats it he is in a world of his own.he is a lovely dog at home and on the lead he is fine, we have spent a fortune on toys and gagets, at home he loves them but out off the lead he is like a dog on a mission he gets a scent and he is is like a mad man. I must be honest even his puppy training classes teacher has suggested a static collar, this is really not something I really want to do  I live in Berkshire any body that can help in my area I will be glad of the advice

I can honestly say that he is trained every day on the long lead and at home and he responds but let him off the lead and thats it he is in a world of his own.

Have you gradually changed the way you use the line? Dogs quickly learn to recognise if they are on a line or not, so once they come when called when you hold the line, the next step would be to let it trail on the ground without holding it, but so that you are able to quickly step on it should you need to. You can then gradually change things so that you make the line shorter and shorter, until eventually there's only a tiny piece left and the dog effectively is off the lead but not quite realising this.

Also how do you act when he is not coming, and when he does? If you keep calling without result, you'll only teach him that he can ignore you, so try to avoid calling when you don't think he will come. Instead try other was to get his attention if he ignores you. Have you tried running away from him, diong weird things to get his attention like falling over on purpose, jumping up and down, anything unusual to get his attention and curiosity, and then praise like mad, REALLY OTT, when he comes back?

Just a few suggestions, not sure what you have tried or not yet. :)

I dont have your breed so no experience with them but If it was me I would start from the beginning again as if he was a young pup I know this is the way they train in our training school it s the old phrase *back to basics* I'm afraid and practice practice practice.

My breed need mental stimulation I cant just walk around the park and not interact with them we must always be doing something we start off with a game of football Ellie is piggie in the middle with Beth close behind and she runs around stopping  the ball every which way .....she's a real crowd puller!

we do down stays and sits circling her and doing figure 8  around her with the ball lots of different interactions to make her work she doesnt have any interest in whats going on around her as long as she can see her ball.
(the ball only ever comes out in the park)

when she is flagging we walk around for a little while throwing the little ball for her to retrieve  then we have a game of hide and seek walk a bit more then another game of football (second half)  then home

I know this isnt much help to its just a few idea's for interacting with your dog.

Roni

Each time he gets let off and has the opportunity to leg it when you call, he's learning that he *can* :(  Freedom is a priviledge, not a right.  He needs to be taught that without fail, when you call, he returns to you immediatly if he wants the best possible reward (which could even be something as simple as being released to play and explore again.......)  Each behaviour you want your dog to repeat and become reliable at, needs to be repeated succesfully several times (as many as 10) in many different locations with different (increasing) distractions before you can say he is reliable. So training it at home, and then expecting him to be great when let off the lead in his doggy playground just isn't going to happen :(.

It's also interesting that you say you have spent a fortune on toys and gadgets at home - I wonder if he's learnt that he's the one who calls the shots?  What happens when he wants to play? It's not a good idea to be at your dogs beck and call 24/7 as they learn to treat you with contempt when there is something more interesting about.

As Lyndsay said, I think you need a reputable trainer to observe you with your dog and help you iron out some of the wrinkles that seem to have developed in your relationship.

And NO, a static collar is NOT the way to go ;)

I agree with Goldmali here.

You see, you can't use the long line most of the time and then sometimes let him off.  He has to ALWAYS be on it during the training stage of this.  The reason for this is that you don't want him to discover that he CAN bog off and not come back, and in order to prevent him learning that, he must NEVER do it.  To make it NEVER happen, you should ALWAYS use the long line.  Until he is 100% reliable on the long line with you holding it.  Then drop the end of it and continue to practise like that, with it trailing.  Always using the long line still.  Then, like someone says, you can gradually cut the long line shorter so that he doesn't realise he's not wearing it any more.  But you should only move to this stage when you have 100% at earlier stages (with long line trailing).  You've tried to rush things, I think.

I'm not sure what you mean by a static collar?  Do you mean a shock collar?  If so, I'd say definitely not and you are right to avoid that.  Personally, I'd be avoiding any puppy training class teacher who suggested one!

If you live in Berkshire you are very near the clicker trainer Sarah Whitehead and her team of trainers.  Her website is here: http://www.dogtrain.co.uk/  If you click on the Behaviour link you'll see a list of other trainers who work with her and are in various different areas, in case Sarah herself isn't close enough.  Good luck.

No more to add to the great advice already given - I jsut wanted to say hang in there, it does get better!  My doberboy's recall started getting iffy at about 8 months old - and he never was that good to start with (my fault, lack of training) - but now he's much, much better, helped in no small part by lots and lot and lots of training!  It did take a long time, and you may find that one method, or one variation of a method, doesn't work for him - I spend 6 months training Remy to recall last summer, with no final good recall - but you will get there.  I now have a method better suited to Remy (much like what's been described in this thread), and he has improved dramatically.  It just takes patience and the right approach.  And for Remy, the right snacks :D

btw, I would avoid the collar personally - I did use a remote spray collar on Remy during those 6 months' training, and while it worked very well while he had it on, he could easily realise when he wasn't wearing it and ignore my commands.  Plus, it's very hard to get the timing spot on with these things.  Not only that, but it had no effect on my other dog!

I don't know how this method rates in the UK but here in Canada we have a TV show called "Good Dog".  In it a human psycologist, Dr. Stanley Coren, helps people with doggy training and behaviour problems.  Many of his solutions are strongly food oriented and I have seen several shows where the owner is advised to only feed the dog little bits of food at a time, sometimes by hand other times in the dish depending on the problem, and to spread the normal ration out over the whole day.  The idea is to make the owner the source of what is supposed to be most important to most dogs, food. The food is only dispensed when the dog has done whatever duty is required.  In the shows of course it works and the owner quickly becomes the centre of the dog's universe and recalls, the most common complaint I think, are soon improved.  The normal feeding schedule is resumed when the owner is getting reliable results.

Yep food can be very useful ;)

What I'd also suggest is using all the dobe's food ONLY on walks. ~Divide it up into say, 10 portions. If you call and he comes, he gets a portion, start off also by giving him somethin a dog dreams of, say - warm cooked chicken! Also use this as an occasional special reward. If he doesn't come when called, he doesn't get that portion of food. He may be hungry for a few days, but eventually he will start to realise you have food and that he needs to pay attention to you to get it :)

Also yes, use the long line as Goldmali suggested, which is what i meant but she put better :P
Agree too, only call him once and ensure you do have a proper command - some peeps will say, "come, here, Rover, Rover here, " etc which is not really getting the dog used to a command.

Another thing is that you need to "generalise" the toys to outdoors - if he doen't pay attention, "train" him to do so. I do think you may need help with this, it's very hard to explain over the net. If someone was with you, they could say "well he's doing that, now what you do is this" etc :)

I'd suggest finding another trainer, yours doesn't sound as if they will have much knowledge if that is all they can suggest.

Lindsay
x

Hi

IF the dog is bogging off to scent/hunt etc why not approach this issue from a different angle?

Recall training MUST start the day the pup comes home because it is forseeable and inevitable that most dogs move from VELCRO dog to BOGOFF dog, either temporarily or, if the correct foundation has not been laid, permanently.

However IF the recall training only prevents him "doing what he wants to most" I would suggest that all the training in the world will take longer and be less successful UNLESS you provide him with an opportunity to indulge in what floats his boat ie scenting.

Therefore, IF this was the case with your dog (I cannot tell as I cannot see him) why not give him controlled sessions in using his nose via tracking?

This has the advantage of being self rewarding, motivating, mentally and physically tiring and therefore should reduce the need to go self employed.

You can also use his air scenting desired by teaching him to find things or people, again in a controlled manner.

HTH

We have just come in from a walk, we took him to an enclosed field after we had done the lead walk  and let him off ,off he went but we did two things first when he got about 50 yards away from my husband laid down on the grass and pretended to cry , i have never seen anything so funny in my life, well the dog stopped turned round looked at my husband did not come back but just sat on the spot not really interested at all  in his dad lying on the floor crying so that didn,t work.  The other thing I did was hide one of my sons old jumpers behind a tree I let him sniff it first then I hid it he loved it when he evetually found it he brought it staight back, when I tried to reward him he wouldn,t eat the treat ( cheese) so we just made a big fuss of him.
Maybe we use the enclosed field more often because I don,t trust him at all now to let him off on the normal walk but tohme you are right scenting  can send this dog into a frenzy! so that is something we willl have to look at. but on a normal walk how do I stop him scenting ?  when he is on a short lead he if fine he dosen,t try to do it but when he is on the longer lead you can see in him  the urge to scent

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