As some of you may know, I had to have one of my dobes put down last week due to very bad stomach problems. My other dobe, Danni was a nice dog and loved to be around people and never really bothered with other dogs or kids.

This week, Danni has been quite naughty and pulls when on her lead to get to other dogs, and doing a high pitched bark. I don't know if it's aggressive or playful but cannot trust her with dogs now.

Also, she snapped at a child that ran(quite close)past her a couple of days ago, and then another who was on her bike, again quite close going past. This is a big problem for us, as if she bit a child(or anyone) it could cause a lot of damage. I would definitely not like to get on the wrong side of a dobermann! I don't know if she is aggressive, or just snapped because the child scared her, any ideas?

Although she never actually bit a child, the mother of the second child has called the police and said Danni was loose and attacked her child. Danni is NEVER allowed off her lead, as i don't trust her with dogs and like most dobes, she doesnt always come back when called.
We are hoping they don't try to put Danni down, but it looks like this woman will not stop until she does. Luckily, my dad is a very good legal advisor, so knows the law well. Hopefully we will win this and allow Danni to get on with her life. It really is unfair to do this just because of her breed.

We have had a lot of problems with our neighbours trying to get our dogs put down, we have been reported for letting our dogs run loose and trying to attack people, for barking and even biting my neighbour! They have barked a lot recently, but as you may know, this was because of my neighbour teasing them as much as he could. I'd hate to fins out what damage she could cause him if he started teasing her again and she managed to get to him. Dobes really do not tolerate being teased.

I'm guessing they are doing this just because they are big dobermanns, and believe they are vicious although Danni has never shown any signs of aggression to them before. Has anyone else had this problem with a stereotyped breed?
The problems with neighbours have got so bad that we are now putting our house up for sale and moving away as soon as possible.

If anyone has any ideas on why Danni is behaving like this, then please let me know, i'm hoping this isn't just her true personality starting to show now Leah has gone..

Thanks, Emma

Hi Emma

This must be a really trying time for you all. 

However, I think there are few conclusions that you're jumping to.

"Danni has been quite naughty and pulls when on her lead to get to other dogs, and doing a high pitched bark. I don't know if it's aggressive or playful but cannot trust her with dogs now."

Now, I didn't see this (and neither did anyone else here) but from what you say, I wouldn't reach the conclusion that you can't "trust her with dogs now".  This is a mistake which a lot of owners make when their dogs first show signs of what they think are aggression - and what happens is that the dog then gets less contact with other dogs, less socialisation opportunities and eventually sometimes it DOES develop into aggression - when it might never have been aggression to begin with.

I would say that you do have to be extra careful about which dogs she socialises with and when, but not that you should not trust her with them, ever.  For you to go to a training class would be ideal because you can guarantee that everyone's dog will be on a lead and she will get to be around other dogs and become accustomed to them.  They will stop being this novel and exciting thing to react to because she will get used to them.  Have a look at www.apdt.co.uk for a list of reward based trainers near you.

About the kids - a child running close to her and a child on a bike riding past her could both be seen as threatening things by her, especially if she wasn't socialised to bikes and children under the age of 18 wks.  By snapping she is reacting in self-defense to something she thinks is threatening to her.  The best thing to do about this would be to go to a place where there are kids playing on bikes and just sit there with her quietly.  If you have her on a head collar, you should be able to direct where she looks and keep her focus on you.  Reward quiet behaviour and focus on you with treats.  Try to go there every day so that again she becomes used to kids on bikes. 

I do feel sorry for you because a lot of people are afraid of dobes in the UK and parents over-react if they see one anywhere near their kids and I think you've been a victim of this kind of prejudice.

I would question the fact that you say that "Danni is NEVER allowed off her lead" - I'm not sure how you can have such a large and powerful breed as a dobe and never let her have a run off lead???  The mind boggles!!  Perhaps she has a lot of pent up energy and this isn't helping matters.  You may not be able to let her run where other dogs are, but you could muzzle her and try to go to places where other dogs don't visit. 

I would also question the statement that "like most dobes, she doesnt always come back when called." - Dobes are a powerful protection breed, and as such have been bred to be highly trainable.  They are used in Schutzhund and manwork and the notion of a Dobe being a breed which is reluctant to come back when called is unbelieveable!  Sorry but I think this is an excuse you are giving yourself for your dog having a less than great recall (which isn't a surprise, seeing as you never let her off the lead to practise it!!!). 

I think training classes would be an excellent idea - the right kind of class.  Where are you based?

Thanks for your reply,

We have already booked socialisation and training classes for her and we have an appointment for them to assess her tomorrow.

I can see what you mean about recall, i worded it completely wrong. What i meant was that a lot of dobe owners i know and have spoke to have all said about the recall, and that you need to constantly train them. They are good when trained well, but if they think they can get away with it, they will!

She used to have good recall, and was always let off her lead out in fields until she started running off ahead. This wasn't too much of a problem but then we got all the complaints from neighbours and decided to keep her on a lead at all times when out in public. She does get a good run though, as we take her to a large enclosed field away from anywhere and let her off. She loves this and bounds about but she won't even come back without messing about first no matter what we try or what tasty foods we have for her! Obviously this can't be done all the time as she needs socialisation, and there are some sheep and horses going to be put in the field soon so cannot use it for much longer.

I admit i find it quite hard to trust her because of the snapping at kids and trying to get at dogs because of my other dobe who was put to sleep last week. She turned to be extremely vicious and we always had to keep an eye on her. She never managed to harm anyone except me, as i split up a fight and accidentally got my thumb caught in her mouth. If i hadn't have pulled it out, i would have lost it as once she's got her teeth in she would never have let go. i am left with a nasty scar and still cant put much pressure on it.
So as im sure you can understand, i would not like to take any chances with Danni doing that to another dog or even worse, a child.

Emma

Emma, not much I can add to onetwothree's post, except that i think you must be very "sensitive" to the things that are happening right now due to the experiences you've just had, and your other dog being put to sleep. It must be difficult to not have been affected by that esp. if your neighbours are being difficult. FWIW  i  think moving is a very good idea, too many try to fight and drag things out, it's better for the stress levels to go somewhere better :)

Lindsay

I too have had problems with neighbours and am moving as a result.  We live in a small village and our neighbours are mainly elderly.  We were reported to the council after we had to leave the dogs out one day when our youngest son got rushed into hospital and they barked when people walked past.  The dog warden called round when we were out and when we spoke to her she said when she went up to the gate the dogs barked!  Of course they did!  We too are frightened to let our Ridgeback off the lead after complaints about her running up to other dogs (she has never bitten but has been bitten on 2 occasions).  Lindsay is right, move on, relax and try to trust and enjoy your dog - just as i will try to do!

I can only second (and third!) what others have said because not only have you had a very stressful time, it looks as if the behaviour of your neighbours is beginning to get to you very badly and you are viewing your dog through their eyes!

Thanks for all of your advice,

I have realised Danni isn't a bad dog atall, but does need some training and socialisation and she will hopefully start classes for that tomorrow.

I agree that the neighbours have gotten to us, they seem to wear you down and then eventually make you feel that you are wrong, when really you are not. Hopefully they will find Danni innocent and allow us to get on with our lives.

We are definitely moving away as soon as we can sell the house, and will hopefully never see anyone from around here again. I really cannot understand how someone could lie to get an innocent dog put down, just because of her breed. Has anyone else had a problem with people stereotyping a breed?

Emma x

It all goes back to a 1974 law, which is: 

No guard dogs on unenclosed premises unless they are with a handler and on a lead

This applies to all dogs is not relevant to breed or size, it applies to your garden even your house if the door is left open and the dog has access to the outside.
In law they must be on a lead and with a handler, there is no point in arguing "My dog is only a Chiuhaua and the fence is 6 foot high", it makes no difference at all, that is against the law and if they want to enforce the law they can and you are guilty.

<<has anyone else had a problem with people stereotyping a breed...>>

Well kind of, my dogs were Belgians and my neighbours decided they were GSDs, this was back in 1985 at the time of height of the Dangerous Dogs Act furore. Madness really.  I decided that you cannot always reason with people and luckily did have an opportunity to leave that house. Bizarrely my dogs had done nothing at all, but sometimes you do just get "hate" from ill informed or frightened individuals.

My neighbour had a stroke the night i had had enough and told him a few things, and he died. That very night. Shame! <g> It mainly solved the problem but i moved anyway and now live in a great road with plenty of people that really like dogs - or are very happy to tolerate them :) It may help that my current dog is very well socialised and doesn't bark much and looks fluffy although she is the same breed :P

Lindsay
x

That law only applies to licenced Guard dogs, Sonnelite, not pet dogs.

This page explains it.

Thanks for that Jeani, I was not refrering to the 1991 DDA, the law I was refering to is a 1974 or therabouts, the 1991 DDA did not repeal that law and covers different things, there are also other laws relating to dangerous dogs going back over a century including more in the late 70's. The 1991 acts did not repeal any of them.
Enacting a new act does not repeal an existing act of any kind unless it is stated at the begining of the act.

If you scroll down to the bottom of the link it gives the 1974 Guard Dogs Act. ;)

Your quite right, I did not know it specified 'licensed' guard dogs, which means there is a  definition to the term 'guard dog'.
My confusion came out of not reading that 1974 act thouroughly and going back to that period a lot of owners with dogs which people complained about were paid visits by the police after complaints (going back to the days when the police did come round for such things) and were told they must keep the dogs locked in and not in the garden.
On top of that there was a mass dumping of dogs which had been left roaming builders yards and scrap yards and so on into rescues or just turning them out anywhre, they had simply lived a life alone locked in a yard of some kind, so the law in 1974 would require licencing of dogs left to guard premises and all the handler requirements. I did not know about the 'licenced guard dog' bit or I have forgotten it.
But haveing said all that I think in the case of any legal action, if someone, police or warden said the dog 'was guarding the unenclosed premises' then a court might rule that the dog was an 'unlicenced' guard dog, regardless of breed.

As I understand it, for a dog to be called a 'guard dog' it must be licenced as such with the council - and then requires confinement or a handler; not able to run freely to guard premises.

If not licenced in this way its behaviour comes under the general dog acts (including the DDA). A pet dog in a private place does not need to be restricted like a 'guard dog'.

I am sure you are right jeani but when it comes to laws and magistrates it usualy depends on if they have a hangover,lovers tiff or they like dogs which interprets the wording, there are other 1970's and I think 80's laws which still apply to dangerous dogs as interpreted to any given situation, dangerous is not simply applied to a dog biteing, attempting to bite or even showing any sign of threat, if a dog barks at a gate and someone is frightened of dogs and also a dicky heart,has a heart attack the dog could be described as dangerously out of control as no one could stop its barking, the law and its interpretation is nothing to do with common sense.
I think the framework of most laws are made by wine tasters who invite the home secrerary to join their party and sign them into law during a sampling session.

I agree few laws have anything to do with common sense, but a dog barking within a garden, where it can be shown not to be able to make contact with a person outside the garden, is at very little risk, and certainly not 'dangerously out of control'.

Precedent allowing for natural dog behaviour has been shown many times, such as the throwing out of the case where a dog killed a cat within its (the dog's) garden. The magistrate decreed that such behaviour was natural and not an offence under any law.

Thanks sonnelite but i really don't need any advice on the law side of things. Just so you know, my dog was not off her lead so it cannot apply to her anyway.

She doesn't bark now either, and the socialisation and training is being sorted.

Emma

but a fenced garden is enclosed?

No a garden is not enclosed in the meaning of the act, enclosed in the meaning of the act means closed inside any structure which has no external access without opening a door or equivilent - I dont know if what building would be classed as if the doors were shut but not locked. Like all these laws once a couple of clever QCs start an advocacy you get lost in three sentances when they start on the legality of legal defintions.

I am not quite sure why this law came about in the first place, it might or might not have had some connection to dogs welfare, it was common practice for dogs to be simply left in yards their entire lives and just fed, there might have been a string of incidents with kids climbing over and gettin mauled or worse, it might have been some got out on occasion and mauled people but apart from that guesswork I really am not sure why it was brought in as a law.