Some of you know I have posted on here before about problems we have had with one of our Shar Pei - Bailey and aggression. 

He has in the past bitten twice.  Once a friend of a friend and also a vet nurse.  Both needed stitches.  Both of these incidents occured when he was under stress with his ear problem and losing his brother.

Anyway to cut a long story short - I have just had a baby and we expected things to be a little wobbly with the dogs getting used to the new addition etc but we didn't expect things to be quite as bad as they are.  The midwife came round on Sat and we put both the dogs out in the garden as she said she was very scared of dogs, my husband went out to see them and Bailey tried to get back in the house as he knew someone was in the house.  My husband tried to stop him and he went for him quite badly and took a chunk out of his arm (needing stitches).  We are devestated as its made me so fearful of what he could do to the baby.  He doesn't seem jealous - more that his guarding instincts have come out even more.  He seems very stressed by it all and paces all the time whining.  He went for my husband again last night when my husband tried to seperate the two dogs as Bailey went for Dutch.  Dutch doesn't seem to take any notice of the baby.

We really don't know what to do now I feel so upset as Bailey means a lot to me but I just can't risk our baby being in the same room.  I don't think he would harm her but I do think if he was going to go for someone he might do it when she was around and hurt her.

Please please give me some advice.  The only thing I can think of is to have him muzzled full time but I want him to be happy too.

Thanks guys

Nicky

I don't know that I can offer any practical advice but I do understand your concerns.  Having lived with a fear aggressive dog in the past I know what it's like having to be constantly vigilant in case something happens.  It can really get you down.
I hope you find a solution that suits your situation and that you are able to cope with.

Hi Nicky,

I've only quickly skimmed your previous threads so hope I've read the situation correctly with Bailey.  

I'll be totally honest and admit that personally I don't trust this breed - apologies to you in that respect and other owners of Shar Pei but in my limited experience of them through training & ringcraft clubs (6 different dogs) I've yet to see one which hasn't posed a serious threat with very little obvious warning.   I don't doubt there are a great many reliable dogs in the breed (or surely no-one would own or breed them) but IMO any dog, regardless of breed, which turns as aggressively as you describe on a family member spells disaster :(  

Personally I wouldn't keep this dog even without the added worry of a newborn infant in the home but if you are determined to keep him I would say that he should be permanently and securely segregated from your baby behind a tall baby gate or in a large cage and then muzzled at all other times.   Not ideal for the dog or your family's enjoyment of the dog - but then IMO a dog which recognises no boundaries towards those who are it's principal carers is not an enjoyable beast to have.  By your own account Bailey is also posing problems with your other dog who is a seemingly a well adjusted family pet.

I really wish you well and perhaps other posters may have a more positive view on how you should manage this situation.  Either way, I hope things work out for you.

Kind regards, Teri

   

:rolleyes:I dont know anything about Akits unfortunately but i have a GSD that HATES people in uniform.When i was pregnant he wouldnt let the midwife in the door so we had to shut him upstairs for the duration of the visit.He also hates police men.We had a break in at our house and the police officer came round to do a report and Guiness went totally off his tree.Again we had to shut him up.He has never bitten anyone though and i dont think he ever would.Hes also great with the kids and also my friends little boy whos just turned two years old.I know i could trust him in the same room alone with little ones and have no problems.He even plays with the resident rabbit and chinchillas. :D

To be honest i think the best thing would be to get a behaviourist in to assess him and the situation :)
If as you say the previous problems were when he was under stress, that may account for all or part of the problems. A lot also depends on human body language used in situations where the dog is not co-operating, as dogs can react to what they may perceive to be a threat, again much depends on past history etc .

A very thorough vet check would be an idea, as some problems such as hypothyroid can cause aggression (sometimes only to certain family members, it is not always generalised) and there is no obvious health problem. I'd always go this route first if i had an aggressive dog :) but do be aware some vets may only do a cursory inspection.

By the sound of it you do need to be very careful.

Best wishes
Lindsay

I would look at having a full thyroid panel done on this dog.  This site http://thyroid.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=thyroid&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thyroid-info.com%2Farticles%2Fdog-hypo.htm lists some of the symptoms, some listed below, of which your dog clearly displays

Bacterial infections of the skin
Chronic ear infections
Severe behavioral changes such as unprovoked aggression, head tilt, seizures, anxiety and/or compulsivity

I agree, print the info on this link and take to the vet for them to read. I had a dog I now suspect had this condition, I took him to the vet repeatedly over a 1 1/2 year period and ended up losing him after he'd bitten more than just a couple of times, I read about this condition a month or so later and things fell into place.
Although I will never know whether this is what caused the severe change in my dogs previous wonderful temperament, it has take an awful long time to come to terms with it, every time I read new information on this condition it brings it all back and I curse the vet who was treating him, and myself for not getting a second opinion.

A friend suspected her dobe had a problem and it took a change of vet an another year to discover that she was right. I don't know what it is about vets and hypothyroid in the UK but they don't all seem to understand how to read the results always. Of course plenty do. Luckily Dr Jean Dodds in the US will always advise :)

Of course aggression can be due to all sorts but, if it does turn out to be this, then the problem is solved with medication :)

Lindsay

>I'll be totally honest and admit that personally I don't trust this breed - apologies to you in that respect and other owners of Shar Pei but in my limited experience of them through training & ringcraft clubs (6 different dogs) I've yet to see one which hasn't posed a serious threat with very little obvious warning.   I don't doubt there are a great many reliable dogs in the breed <

Yes, ther ARE a great many relaible dogs of this breed - like from what has been said, Nic's other dog Dutch who unless I'm wrong, is also a shar-pei. The vast majority of shar-pei are reliable and steady family pets. So really, that was a totally needless expression of your personal opinion/dislike of a breed in relation to this problem that Nic is having with Bailey.

And yes, I AM seeing my a**e about your comment because they are a breed very dear to my heart that I've had a lot more experience with than 6 dogs.

Anyway, back to the matter in hand and Bailey. I'd say it depends on what his family are comfortable with. I'd read and condiser what everybody has suggested so far. The only comments I have is I could not rehome a dog of mine with a good and clear conscience if he/she had bitten several people.

Hi Phoebe

>So really, that was a totally needless expression of your personal opinion/dislike of a breed in relation to this problem that Nic is having with Bailey.

I don't believe my phrasing which you quoted was a needless expression as I thought it only fair to the OP that I openly admitted my opinions may in part be coloured by my reservations towards the breed itself.   I clearly stated that I was apologetic to fanciers who quite naturally would have a different perspective to them than I and that I had met only a limited number - although having witnessed agression in 100% of them I think it's understandable that I'm particularly cautious of them.

I also acknowledged that the OP's other dog of the same breed seemed by her account to be a well adjusted family pet.   While I appreciate that you will feel passionately about your breed (as I'm sure we all do of our own) it does no harm IMO to be aware of how they are perceived by others.

It was not intended to cause offence and, again, my apologies to those in the breed if it has done so.

Regards, Teri

Hi Teri, it's just I didn't think it was relevant or helpful as any dog can behave as Bailey is at the moment. His breed isn't the issue - his behaviour is.

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what breed do you have? I am well aware that shar-pei have a different mindset to a lot of breeds - this is a quirk I am well used to having owned several oriental breeds who are very similar. I wonder if you have misjudged the ones you have met as their body language could be quite different from your own breed.

Believe me I'm well aware of people's opinions of shar-pei as complete strangers used to think it was okay to tell me all about it in the street. If I had a pound for every person that told me the breed have skin problems (despite being faced with two dog who had lovely, healthy coats) or asked me how do I clean their wrinkles out (what did they think was going to get stuck in there?), I'd be much wealthier than I am now. That was just two of the comments and if I were to list them all I'd be here all day, though I'm pretty sure temperament never raised it's head.

Hi again Phoebe,

My own breed is BSD - which have mixed reactions from people too so I often find myself defending the breed because if some folk have only ever met flighty or sharp examples (and such dogs certainly do exist :( ) they assume this to be a breed trait, full stop.

I realise that the mind set of Oriental breeds is quite different and have known many Akitas for eg. and found them by and large to be a wonderful breed with a character I personally am drawn to - although I've met exceptions too but in lesser numbers.  Unfortunately my rather limited experience of the Shar Pei has all been negative - it has not been their body language I've misjudged because every one of them has bitten (or seriously attempted to do so), both other dogs and people (2 including their handlers) -  predominantly in normal ring training environments.

As I have said I acknowledge my opinion of the breed is tainted and I thought that mentioning that was only fair to the OP but on hindsight (my forte it seems of late :rolleyes: ) it may have been better not to.

Regards, Teri

I'm sorry Nicky, I really don't see any other option. I would have him put to sleep. You are asking for trouble, I would not keep a dog who is exhibiting this sort of behaviour, especially with a new baby in the house. I am no expert, I am a dog lover,but I do have common sense. If you keep the dog segregated at all times I think the chances are he will be very, very jealous. Anything could happen if he gets the chance. Babies are one thing, but toddlers get into everything. You would have to have eyes everywhere, I think keeping your dog would be very, very stressfull for everyone. Your home will be full of visitors coming to see the new baby. I honestly  think the sensible, safest thing to do would be to have him put to sleep. I know this is a hard descision, but I work with someone who has just had his border collie put to sleep because it has bitten his grandson. It bit him on his face (it did not want to let go) from his lip to his eye & believe me according to the hospital the toddler escaped lightly.The dog had not shown any aggression before. The grandson had to have a general anaesthetic to repair his wounds. The hospitals have to deal with many dog bites, you do not want to become a statistic. I have bought up two children with dogs and thank goodness never had this dilema, but I would never, ever take the chance with dogs which I did not trust.

This is an awful situation for anyone to be in but does the dog need to get put down?  It may well be that the current situation can't be worked out - and I agree with you that I personally wouldn't take a chance with this dog and a baby, hard though that is - but the dog could be rehomed into a situation that much better suits his needs.

I took on a dog that is aggressive and bites but the situation he lives in now has enabled him to have a life. He isn't a danger because he can be managed around his problems.  I'm sure this could happen for this dog given the right home and it should be done before the dog has a chance to do any damage.

If it were me I would put my child first, remove the dog and have him rehomed to a suitable home.  Hopefully this can have a happy ending for everyone.

CG

One thing i don't think we should ever do is advise/suggest a dog is put to  sleep on a forum where we simply cannot know everything about the situation.

If a dog is aggressive, or if it has a change in behaviour, a vet should always be part of the equation.

I will never forget the young lab who was supposed to be aggressive, and some said "put to sleep" - thank goodness it was saved by someone who realised it was simply mouthing and being a young lab. No disrespect to the original poster, but you can never, ever tell everything via internet.

Lindsay
x

(Watch out Lindsay you will have Dennis after you again! :-D)

Agreed, being PTS is not anywhere on the horizon at this stage, I too have many concerns about the trustworthiness of this dog with children and a baby, I would not touch this dog with a barge pole as a family dog.

Your priority is to your children, I can not see you having the time or energy to put into helping this dog even with the very best behaviourist and training, this dog will need consistancy and a lot of one to one. You can not do this without taking time away from your babies who are your first priority.

Let this dog go to an older couple or a childless home, in the correct enviroment with the right owner there is every chance of turning this dog around, he is absolutely in the wrong home at the moment nic29 even though you are doing your best. You must be able to trust your dog 100% your children are too precious.

personally I cannot agree with rehoming a dog that has bitten several times - this is just passing the problem on IMO.

I'm afraid from the information that has been posted, that this is an accident waiting to happen - can you live with such a high risk ?.

Get an experienced person in the breed to do a thorough temperament test on Bailey and be guided by their reccomendations BUT if he is truly this aggressive then I'm afraid that he would be PTS if he were mine rather than be passed on.

Yvonne

I don't think there is any comparison between a young labrador 'mouthing' & an adult dog which will take a large chunk out of it's owners arm. I think it is a very big risk to rehome this dog, it would be wonderful if a suitable home could be found, but unfortunately he sounds like a time-bomb waiting to explode. We can blame ear infections, stress etc. but I would have to think long & very hard before I passed this dog onto someone else. Is there any chance that the breeder can help?

:rolleyes:Cant you get in contact with the breed rescue and tell them about the problems you are having?I recently helped to rescue a five month old GSD with really bad fear agression.She was taken into the breed rescue and rehomed to a couple who knew her problems but were experienced in dealing with the situation.The poor little mite was so misstreated in her first home that trusted no one and bit anyone that came close enough.Now a few months down the line and alot of hard work from her new owners and shes a totally different dog.She is not 100% perfect but much better and continuing to improve with such knowledgable input.:) Just a thought and worth a try.Better than condemnation when there may still be open avenues.

Beardy,  the point I was making is that no matter how much we think we know, people can get things wrong about their dogs. The example of the lab was just one example amongst quite a few I've seen over the last few years on internet sites. The person who owned the lab believed it was very aggressive, and was biting him. As i've said I am not saying the poster of this thread is wrong! The point I am making is that we could be wrong, as more than one person did suggest putting the lab to sleep without knowing any more about it. I feel the circumstances are therefore similar.
I'm not saying this is the case here - what i am saying, and what i stand by, is that the problem needs proper investigation by a reputable behaviourist, and a medical check.

I think whatever happened next would be the owner's decision; at least that decision would be an informed one. If the problem turns out to be medical, (ie a long standing condition which has not yet been diagnosed such as the hypothyroid i mentioned, which can cause aggression, but the dog can be fine if medicated)  it would be very sad for a dog to lose its life, would you not agree? :)

I personally would not pass the dog on unless a very special and totally aware home could be found under special circumstances.

I agree with everything Lyndsay has suggested before any decisions are made :)

I do hope all works out for the best :)

Really feel for you, but what will happen when your baby starts crawling, you can be as careful as you like but there is always a chance something could happen and the dog could slip past.  You would never forgive yourself.  If Bailey is willing to bite your husband he will not think twice about an infant who screams, (and they all do) and makes lots of noise.
Also to keep him completely apart from the baby now and as the baby grows up, will mean change in his routine and much less attention, because babies and toddlers take an increasing amount of time.  Will Bailey be happy with this or could it make the situation worse.
One other thing is that when baby becomes a toddler, toddler will become an expert at getting where he/she is not mean't to be and this could be, however careful you are, in with Bailey.
Its so difficult when you love a dog so much and i would hate to have to choose, but from the outside I can say your babies safety must come first.   ((((hugs))))

Bev

I have just recently had a baby too ( he's 5 weeks today). My dogs have adjusted very well, but i can tell you now that if i was in your situation i wouldn't hesitate on finding a new home for this dog. I know you love him and he is a member of your family but from what you have said he is dangerous and unpredictable.
There will be a solution to this situation but i really think that with the increasing demands of a baby it unfortunately wont be with you. I would personally prefer the dog to be elsewhere and happy than with me and stressed.
Is it possible to pinpoint his triggers so that you know what type of home would be suitable - i would seriously consider having a registered behaviourist in to assess him in order to find him the best possible home where he can be happy and you can have peace of mind.
I really hope you can sort this out sooner rather than later, i really feel for you and understand this is heartbreaking. Good luck. xx