is it ok to feed a mixture of complete and BARF? At the moment our 5 month old GR has 3 meals a day of Arden Grange Classic Junior and a couple of times we have given him a fresh bone from the butchers at lunchtime so I have then only given him a small amount of kibble for his lunch. When he goes on to 2 meals a day would it be OK to feed him one meal of complete and one BARF meal? At the moment I couldn''t switch completely to BARF as we go camping a lot in the summer and wouldn't be able to store BARF as it would go off so dry complete would have to be fed then and I wouldnt want to keep switching him from one food to another. When he gets a meaty bone now (perhaps once or twice a week) am I right in cutting down on his next kibble meal or should I just view the bone as an extra? As he is only a puppy I want to ensure he is getting the right food. I sometimes add raw finely chopped vegetables to his dry food as an addition without adjusting the amount of food.

Hiya, yes it would be OK to feed 1 meal dry, the other raw :)

What kind of bones are you giving him? My dogs get large 1`s they chew on but don`t eat as an extra, so if you are giving him meaty bones he actually eats & swallows then that would be a meal.

Its fine to put veg on his dry food without adjusting the amount but you need to blend or process it for him to get the benefits. He can have fruit as well :)

How about barfing when you're at home and feeding Nature Diet or similar when you go away?

When we tried to change him off his normal feed before ( very slowly over a period of 2 weeks) it upset his stomach so we decided to stick to his normal complete food as he was doing well on it but has to be ordered via the internet as no local stockists. We wanted to move to something we could obtain locally but decided it was better to stay with something that worked even if it is a pain to get hold of. The BARF diet appeals apart from if we go away so will probably stick to a mix of both at moment. Thanks for replies.

My boys are on BARF (and sometimes autarky) when I go away they usually have naturediet or forthglade, they have never suffered with an upset tum because of it :)

Hello,
I feed both! Blade has 3 meals a day still (7 months) and he has bones all the time to chew on, but I don't cut down on his meals in anyway as he takes a while to eat alot of it. The bones I give him are beef knuckle joint bones from butcher. if it is the same as you feed, then I wouldn't cut down on the meals. (unless of course you notice your pup putting alot of weight!) but then they grow so quickly, there body is changing all the time, I would only worry if an adult dog was putting on weight.
just remember if you do feed fruit not to give grapes or raisins/sultanas as these can be toxic to dogs, the same goes for onions. I have also heard that advocado shouldn't be fed too, but not sure about that one?
I usually feed lots of raw chicken (wings and carcasses etc) and mince too.

Em

I have used a small amount of avocado in Gabi's veggy mush along with other veg with no ill effects. Not very experienced though, only been feeding BARF for 9 months. I'm sure someone else will come on to confirm.

Yes I have too gaby & I`ve been feeding raw to my lot for about 5yrs now ;) :)

Hi,

I knew that avocado was not good to feed dogs but didn't know what problems it could cause - so have done a search and come up with the following:-

"Avocado contains a toxic element called persin which can damage heart, lung and other tissue in many animals. Avocadoes are high in fat content and can trigger an upset stomach, vomiting or even pancreatitis. The seed pit is also toxic and if swallowed can become lodged in the intestinal tract where it may cause a severe blockage which will have to be removed surgically. Since avocado is the main ingredient in guacamole be sure and keep your dog out of the dip."

I really hope your lot continue to be okay on it and it doesn't have any adverse effects.  However I can't understand why anyone would take the unecessary risk. 

Karen

There is a dog food being sold that contains avocado, .

Do you know how much is required to be eaten before it causes toxicity Karen?

Thanks for your concern regarding my dogs, however in my case I believe the benefit to outweigh, what I believe, to be an insifgnificant risk when its fed in small amounts which is how I feed it. But anyone else, who like yourself is concerned should omit it  :)

Hi,

I don't know how much needs to be digested before it can cause a problem  - it seems to be pretty unknown, but dogs as people do all have different metabolic rates and digest food at different rates.  Some seem to have iron stomachs and others seem to get a dodgy tummy at the slightest change in diet.  I know of people who have said that even though they know chocolate is not supposed to be good for dogs that their dogs have eaten a lot of it and never come to any harm, infact my Mum used to have an old English Sheep Dog who never stole anything food wise unless someone had left chocolate lying around - he never had a problem.  However I also know someone who lost their dog after it ate chocolate that had been left lying around after Christmas!

I can't find anything that says what benefits there are to feeding avocado to dogs - would be interested to know what they are?  Also interested to know which dog food contains avocado?

Karen

Heres the link for the food

http://www.breeders-choice.com/avoderm.htm

And heres a link of the nutrients contained by avocados which also applies to dogs

http://www.mercola.com/2003/oct/15/avocados.htm

You don`t want to feed it thats up to you, but as I haven`t seen any studies to back up these claims I`ll continue to givee them to my dogs :)

Thanks for that Karen. Will certainly not use it again. We learn something new every day.

A link with info re persin

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2004-07/1088793567.Ot.r.html

http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer?pagename=pro_apcc_dyk

Interesting links Christine ;)

I, on the odd occasion feed my dogs and have fed past dogs on avocado without any ill effects. For the amount that they have consumed I don't feel it's a threat and won't change my feeding habits, but like all things, it pays to be educated on these things and cautious where necessary.

I also feed garlic on a regular basis and now find that this too is potentially toxic. Yet I am feeding it with health benefits in mind. Do I change the habit of a lifetime and no longer feed it? Or do I continue with it as I've always done with nothing but good results.

Hi H/P:)  

*Do I change the habit of a lifetime and no longer feed it? Or do I continue with it as I've always done with nothing but good results. *

Hmmm difficult one that ;)  tell you what I`ve done, continued to feed it :D :D 

It was a no brainer really Christine....for me that is :D :D

Hi Gaby,

No problem - it seems to be a bit of an unknown quantity as to how much will cause what effect but as it is unknown - I think people who continue to feed it knowing there is a risk are just being irresponsible as they could be causing a build up of damage without knowing about it. Pluss I can't find anything anywhere that says it is of benefit to them.  Still I guess that's none of my business.  :-)

Karen

*I think people who continue to feed it knowing there is a risk are just being irresponsible as *

I can assure you I am not in the least irresponsible, in fact when it comes to my dogs I am extremely responsible

I`ve also seen no documented evidence against avocados.

Karen there are risks to may things in life and it is up to each individual to make that judgement call. Most foods can be toxic if taken in great enough quantities, there was even a woman who drank so much water that she effectively drowned herself.

I think the key is to know your dog. Mine are dreadful scroungers and if I worried too much about what they ate they would be perminantly in the vets. However I know that a few grapes or rasins are no big problem for then, neither is the amount of garlic I feed, nor the little bit of chocolate that they get every now and then. In fact if I was playing devils advocate I would say that there is an arguement that it is something they would have eaten in the wild and so should occaisionally form part of their diet.  

This comes from the ASPCA site which has a poison control centre:

Did You Know... Avocado (Persea americana) is not an advisable food to give to pets? Avocado leaves, fruit, seeds and bark contain a toxic principle known as Persin. The Guatemalan variety, which is the most common variety found in stores, appears to be the most problematic.
The primary concern in dogs is with gastrointestinal (GI) irritation, including vomiting and diarrhea. Typically, these effects occur in dogs that have scavenged on significant quantities of fruit, branches or other material from the plant. Birds and rodents appear to be particularly sensitive, and can develop respiratory distress, generalized congestion, fluid accumulation around the tissues of the heart, and possibly death from consuming avocado.

If you suspect that your pet may have ingested a potentially poisonous substance, before attempting any decontamination contact your local veterinarian or the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center (1-888-426-4435) immediately for assistance. To learn how to "Make Your Pet's Home Poison Safe" visit us at www.aspca.org/apcc.

Yes Tohme, that comes from the link I`ve already given further up this thread. The same site also says  *Did you know garlic, chives & onions.can be potentially toxic...............*

As I understand it came about from 1 dog eating an awful lot of them & as I said also further up the thread theres a dog food being sold containing avocados & surprisingly enough there is a link explaining a veggie diet for dogs in another thread saying its fine to feed avocados to dogs :rolleyes:

I emailed the company that makes the food containing avocado, as an intersted potential customer who had concerns about the possible toxicity of persin in avocado, bit of a fib, I emailed them 5 days ago and have not received a reply from them.  So do not know what from the avocado is used in their food.

Bluebell, of course it is up to each individual as to what to feed their dog and knowing your dogs does mean you get to know what it can eat and what agrees with it etc.  However my original response was to Gaby who asked if anyone knew if there were any problems with feeding your dog avocado, Christine replied that she did and had no problems, Gaby did not know at that point that avocado is reported in numerous places as toxic to many animals including dogs, Gaby has now decided that this is a risk she is not willing to take and will no longer be feeding her dog avocado.  I think your right that you can go over the top worrying about every little thing your dog eats, but I don't think avoiding somthing that is listed as toxic in poison control centres is going over the top but is common sense.

If the company that makes the food containing avocado get back to me I will post the reply.

Karen

Actually it was Emzz77 who asked the original question about avocados, gaby replied saying she`d been feeding small amounts of it for 9mths without probs & I made the statement I`d been doing the same as well for 5 odd years, again without probs.

Typically, these effects occur in dogs that have scavenged on significant quantities

The above words certainly needs to be taken into consideration, especially the words in bold.

The same site also says the same about various species of the allium plant family, does that mean people who have been feeding garlic for donkies yrs should also stop :rolleyes:

>>So do not know what from the avocado is used in their food<<

It can only be flesh or skin or oil which surely contain the properties from the fruit its made of which is avocado   I also don`t know what would be achieved in emailing them. As far as I can see the places that are reporting this have all taken it from the 1 source, the aspca

OT I know but I emailed Nutro in the UK querying 1 of their foods several wks ago but they still haven`t got back to me, so nothing new there then

And as I also said, take a look at the link on feeding a veggie diet to dogs, they also say avocados are good to give them :)

OK, The original poster was Emzz77 , however Gaby who had been feeding avocado in light of what I posted and what you posted decided to not take the risk of continuing to feed it - however small a risk you think it is she has decided this from hearing both of our points of view, which is what this forum is all about so people can make informed decisions.

With regards to emailing the company, If I'm arguing a point then I like to have as much info about that subject as possible, I got a bit interested so wanted to hear what they said - and also I don't know enough about processing foods etc to know whether they can extract the good bits out of plants and fruits etc and leave the unwanted out.

Weve both put our points of view on here so others if interested can decide for themselves if this is something they wish to feed.  Lets just agree to disagree? :-)                      

I think that once we have  information we have to decide what we do with it; some people have been feeding avocados and grapes/raisins for years with no issues, and their dogs are obviously not at risk, for the moment.  However all our dogs have differing tolerances and we can only make informed decisions IF we have the facts and possibilities at our fingertips.

>>we can only make informed decisions IF we have the facts and possibilities at our fingertips. <<

Couldn`t agree more :)

>>Lets just agree to disagree<<

Yes was more than willing to do that but I did not like being told I was *irresponsible* by continuing to feed it. You also said you couldn`t find anywhere that said of any benefits to feeding it & ignored the links I gave to them, you also ignored the same place saying other certain foods are also supposedly toxic.

>>If I'm arguing a point then I like to have as much info about that subject as possible<<

Believe me so do I, both sides ;) but I don`t believe in scaremongering. Maybe if you`d looked a little more you wouldn`t have said  >>I can't find anything that says what benefits there are to feeding avocado to dogs - would be interested to know what they are? <<

http://www.vegetariandogs.com/
http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#addfood

Yes this board is all for an exchange of views & opinions but not for making people feel they are being *irresponsible*or taking risks with their dogs because they don`t conform to your views.

On that note I agree with you & agree to disagree with you on this matter :)

Hi Christine,

I didn't tell you you were irresponsible, I said 'I THINK it is irresponsible', just my opinion not fact, but it is how I feel!  As you don't know me and obviously don't agree with me on this matter I don't see why it should bother you, but if that offended you then I'm sorry for that.

I don't think I was scaremongering just stating what has been documented, as you have stated from your experience.

I have looked at both those links and still can't see where it says anything specific about avocado, but I haven't read every word so maybe I missed something. It's certainly easier to find info about the possible toxic effects of avocado for dogs than it is to find any info of it being nutritionally beneficial to dogs.   Also I did not ignore the link to site saying about other foods being toxic, but nobody asked a question that I am aware about other foods. 

If I have a view or opinion that I feel is relevant then I will say so, I can't actually control how this makes people feel, and if someone believes in their view then I wouldn't be able to make them feel irresponsible or that they are taking risks and if I can then maybe they are not very strong in their views.

OK, done now :-)

I have fed both, but at the moment they are al on complete(out of freezer space) :D

Hi,  you should not really mix the two, if at all possible, as BARF and complete digest at different levels, and can upset a dogs digestive system, we take our dogs on hols or camping we get a coolbox and store what we can in there, and also there is usually a tesco or supermarket nearby where you can buy chicken wings, fish etc...

I would mix for a short time if i really had no choice but would not recommend it long term..

this is just what i have learnt over the years of feeding BARF from different people and books, but everyone has different views and experiences.

Heres a site giving examples of what you can add to commercial dog foods :)

http://www.dogaware.com/dogfeeding.html#addfood