Would you still purchase?  A friend of mine is about to pick up a dogue de bordeaux, but the breeder told him the papers were sent off, but not received in time, but that he could received a copy of the parents pedigree.... is this standard?

This is fine. Both my pups which I bought I had to wait for papers. Same as when I sold my pups. It gave me an excuse to visit the pups after they were settled. I went and hand delivered all the papers.

When we had our last litter, I was concerned that we might not get the registration papers back in time, so what I did was make  7 photocopies of the registration application (1 for each puppy) with the names for each particular puppy highlighted - so that I could let the new owner have that, if necessary.   As it turned out, it wasn't necessary because the registration documents arrived in good time, but I would do the same again - just in case!

Margot

Just make sure your friend gets a confirmation in writing, signed by the breeder, that the pup has indeed been KC registered and that the registration document is 'to follow'. This isn't uncommon.

I have just had this problem with my litter that I've just sold.  The stud's part owner is resident in Spain and I only got his signed paperwork last week.  I put in writing signed by myself and the dogs new owners that as soon as I get the papers I will send them to them.  Oh and of course that they will be KC registered!

The only thing that worries me is that because they are not registered how do I do the 6 weeks free insurance?  Any details would be greatly appreciated :d

The only thing that worries me is that because they are not registered how do I do the 6 weeks free insurance?

Do you mean the KC's insurance? Just use PetPlan instead, all you have to say there is that the pups WILL be registered, as of course they will be. :)

DONT DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!
I bought my GSD in the same circumstances just to find there were no papers and that the dog was a cross breed.I highly recomend that you dont do it unless the breeder is a friend or is a well know breeder that someone you know has recomended.

There should be no reason for the breeder not giving out the PEDIGREE as the breeder will print one out or write one out. If in any doubt, get your friend to request copies of both parents REGISTRATION certificates- not pedigrees. Only the reg certs will show that they really are KC registered and do not have any endorsements preventing pups from them being registered.

I think the difficulty here is that while it is perfectly possible that there may be a genuine delay in getting papers back, it is also an excuse frequently used by breeders who have not registered their pups and have no intention of doing so, and will continue to promise that they are on their way till the new owner finally gives up.  I would say that provided the breeder has gone out of their way to ensure IN WRITING that the dogs will be KC registered, and documents will follow - gives the parents registration numbers, then that should be ok - merely giving them a copy of the parents pedigree means nothing and is not enough, and personally, if that is all that has been offered I would walk away.

ENSURE THAT IF YOU DO GO DOWN THIS ROUTE THAT THE BREEDER PUTS IN WRITING THAT THEY ARE KC REGISTERED AND THAT THE PAPERS WILL BE SENT OUT AS SOON AS THEY ARRIVE.

This is what I have done in my circumstances.

Thanks all.. i was only concerned because the puppies were 4.5 months old, and i thought that should have given the breeder ample time... but she explained about being busy for christmas and other circumstances....

... plus the breeder was from Essex.

(I'm not sure what that means, (as an American), but that poor county sure is the but of a lot of jokes on TV.) ;)

:) The media make Essex girls out to all dumb blondes but thats not at all true.They also make the Scottish to be tight fisted and the Irish to be drunkards.Its just like saying that saying the majority of Americans are obese,thats how the media portray them.Take no notice and make sure your friend does all her homework regarding this breeder before parting with any money.Its not just the KC papers she needs to worry about,its also the pups health.If the papers dont arrive then what else has the unscruplious breeder lied about? Good luck and i hope all works well whatever she decides to do. :)

I live in Essex.    See my previous post on this point.  I do things the correct way.   I do resent all these jibes :(

I'm a scouser were all made out to be thieves , common and thick!

Take it with a grain of salt ....laugh it off.....it's not worth it!

Hi,
Paperwork not back by 4.5 months - I would be more that a bit dubious, I'm afraid.
At the very least, check the parent's registration documents (checking especially for the endorsement, "progeny not eligible for registration")  If that's there, the pups never will be registered.  Does the breeder have both parents?  Not always a good sign (exceptions of course)
Also, would be surprised at a reputable breeder still having pups available at that age.  There are always exceptions of course.  I suppose it's different for different breeds.
Is the breeder someone who has been recommended by any breed club.  If not, it could be worth a check with a club, maybe?
Good luck, not an easy decision.

Sorry, Lokis mom.. wasnt' jibing.. really i dont know any essex people at all... besides jade goodie and chantelle from non-celebrity big brother.

I called the DDBclub and they had nothing bad to say about breeder.. they heard of breeder and said no complaints were registerd.

Also, and i went through this... she send that christmas was a bit harsh on litters of rare breed dogs.... lack of money.. i suppose.  She originally started her price at 1000 pounds and was tired of 'timewasters' (her word not mine).  She said male puppies were harder to place... (i'm no professional, but i always see males advertised in larger numbers than bitches).

Im no breeder but dont reputable breeders already have homes for their pups before they are even born and dont alot of people have to go on a waiting list for pups? Most breeders will be responsible enough not to have a litter ready near the xmas period due to the puppies for gifts thing and if accidents do happen then they should be rectified correctly.Too many things about this breeder say that she is a bit dubious.I,personally would stay away.If it is as you state a rare breed then why were the pups not pre booked and why has she still so many left and why are they not KC registered? KC is the only reputable way of registration,in my opinion,and if the pup was not KC then why not? It just doesnt add up to me.

all good questions.. but i personally was looking for a dogue around christmas myself.. and if there is anything i found out is that a lot of people did not have an extre 1000 to 1500 pounds to spare for a new pup.  This made it a buyers market as all it took was to hold off a little longer and soon you saw the same puppies drop in price.  Also... even reputable breeders seem to run into thier share of timewasters during the holiday season... you wouldnt believe how many people give deposits, but dont come back for the dog because they dont have the rest of the money.

I dont fault her for still having pups..... it's almost february and the people with pups in November are still reposting ads several times over... on the sites with pups for sale.  I've had breeders call me back from my hunting in november, december.

I am passing on the concerns about KC registration to my friend... thanks all.

Im no breeder but dont reputable breeders already have homes for their pups before they are even born and dont alot of people have to go on a waiting list for pups?

True, but don't forget it is quite possible to have 10 people all wanting bitches, and end up with a litter of only dogs. :) Or simply have lots of people wanting one sex, a few wanting the other, and end up with 2 pups too many of the sex less people want.

If it is as you state a rare breed then why were the pups not pre booked

DDB might officially be a rare breed, but they are in reality quite easy to get hold of, especially as there are so many breeders in them just for the money and Joe Public only after a pet don't know not to buy from them..........

I would be suspicious with them not having papers at this late time in the day. 

I know about time wasters over the Christmas period.  I have a waiting list for my pups and was let down by about 8 people!  I sold my last 2 boys yesterday a lot older than I would like to.  Fortunately they seem to have gone to good homes, hopefully!

I think rare breed as far as amount of people who owned... dog shows that you see the breed in and history in UK.

Cocker Spaniels, Jack Russel Terriers and Germand Sheppards... the opposite of rare breeds.. lol

I do agree about the time for the papers...

I would get this in writing, otherwise go elsewhere.  Also it should say whether there will be endorsements on the registraions(most good breeders endorse), and these should be explained, and under what circumstances if any they will be lifted.

I want to thank everyone who replied... really I do.

I took the trip with my mate to Essex... a bit of a journey from Worksop, Nottinghamshire... but we thought it would be worth it.  NOT!!! 

Get to the house, and a big labrador keep jumping up on me.  I have to say, something about a big black labrador jumping to get my hat freaked me out... especially since not much effort was put into stopping him from doing it.

I'm ushered into the kitchen where the floors are obviously soaked with urine, which negates the paper training they had.  The dogs were sort of underfed... i'm no expert, but i know scrawny when i see it.  The pups were born on 9/27.. and i solved the paperwork issue... the 'breeder' actually said since they were not selling, she didnt have enough money to pay for the paperwork!!! I could hear the voices of all the respected members yelling in my head. "Get out!!"  The pups started at 900 pounds.. and are now down to less than 500... great for a dogue.  My mate was tempted just based on the price... then i start reciting all the questions i got about things to ask the breeder... I almost felt sorry for her once i saw the confused look in her eyes and her trying to pronounce dysplacia...

She finally admitted that she was in a financial bind due to a divorce and that is why she bred her bitch... She had no idea who the dog's were in the pedigree and spoke on how frustrated it was trying to deal with growing puppies... and expenisve.

I aske to see the onnoculation records and worming records... no worming records and at 4.5 months only two shots... (i wasnt sure of the schedule, but i didnt think two was enough.... )

Thanks again guys... my mate was still haggling price and got her down to less than 400.00, the only way i could get out of there was saying we had to go to ATM machine to withdraw cash.... i texted from the road that we were not interested.

6 hours roundtrip of driving... im exhausted...

It sounds like you and your friend made the right decision - but those poor puppies.

Thats terrible.Poor little pups.The only out come for these poor babies now is irresponsible new owners or the pound.Makes me mad to think about it.I would of said something to her but thats just me.Ive never learnt to hold my tounge where animals are concerned. :)Some one has to speak up on their behalf as they have no voice. :(

The only good thing is that -hopefully anyway - the "breeder" won't repeat the experience. But - those poor pups