My dog has always  been a handfull around other dogs, not aggressive but a bully, but also a coward, so it just depends on the dog he meets, if he gets to sniff it or play with it. he has dog friends so he is not starved of their company and goes training every week and i do stuff at home and on walks. Anyway my question is, he is 3 years old in march, so is he still young for a german shepherd? am i fooling myself, should i have him where i want him by now? he still has these moments of fixation where he goes deaf, less and less often, but it still happens (just had one which is what prompts my question) which makes me feel such a failure, and the damn whale died.

Well, my partner's mum's 4 year old shepherd is still the eternal puppy and she still has selective hearing too, so maybe just relax a bit with your expectations. I would go to some socialisation classes though. My shepherd girl is now 6 months and she has developed some issues with other dogs - she meets other dogs now by barking and lunging (and believe me she was well socialised with other dogs having started puppy classes at 11 weeks). This is totally non-aggressive, although it could look it to people who don't know her, and is apparently a mixture of excitement and her new need to assert herself. She is going to proper socialisation classes because that way she can be observed by the trainers in a controlled environment and we can then go on to devise a programme of training to help her with her behaviours. I think you should just relax though and do more in the way of socialisation. I find after going to training class with my girl, she somehoe regains her hearing and is very good for a few days after, until the stead 'up your' decline comes in again where she will ignore me and try it on, but every dog has a different level of maturity and take different lengths of time to get to different stages in their training.
Yes, I was gutted about that whale too....

we go to a training class with lots of other dogs and he is fine there, knows whats expected of him in that room i suppose. i sympathise with you about the barking and lunging, we had all that and its the training and socialising that helped i'm sure, perhaps i am being unrealistic, but as this is my first dog i have no experience to draw from which is where you guys are all so great.

Morgan -

3 yrs old is early adulthood, so, yes, you should not be putting training problems down to his age.  Too many times I hear people say things like "Oh, he has no recall, but he's going through adolescence" (like adolescence excuses no recall) and so on for other training problems.  Yes, at adolescence a dog does stop finding it intrinsically rewarding to follow the owner around - which is why an owner should have worked very hard to have developed a good relationship with their dog and established a history of reward via treats or toys. 

I have a large breed which matures slowly, but have never experienced this "adolescence" when dogs go deaf and don't come back.  I'm not saying they're obedient all the time, but I find no connection between their age and their obedience.  Yes, they do have higher energy levels when adolescent, but I haven't found them less likely to respond to a cue at this time than at any other.  I do think that, too many times, people use their dog's age as an excuse for the dog not responding well to commands.

That's not all directed at you, just something I had to get off my chest :)

I'm not sure what you mean by your dog is "not aggressive but a bully, but also a coward" - these are human-istic descriptions of him - can you describe what he actually does or doesn't do, that leads you to label him in these ways?

yes that is a confusing description isnt it, it confuses me. my trainer says that when he used to bark at a strange dog that it is a fear response. Ok,  I get that, but he also wants to go over to every dog he sees,which doesnt seem veryfearful although sometimes his hackles are a bit raised. I control this access to other dogs depending on the dog. On or off lead he can meet a dog very nicely but inevitably he will try to put a paw on its back , he will then most likely get told of by the other dog, or if the other dog is up for it enter into a game of chase taking turns. he is very obedient as a rule and i reward with food or a game. Its just that today,after a 2 hour run in the woods having met many dogs very well and calmly, on lead down the shops he suddenly stared barking at a dog not even very near him (a tibetan mastiff, very friendly looking and huge) and i tried to get him to turn round ,sit ,look at me etc but he was just fixated on this dog. I dont understand him, hope that puts you a bit in the picture, thanks for listening,

I have a large breed which matures slowly, but have never experienced this "adolescence" when dogs go deaf and don't come back.  I'm not saying they're obedient all the time, but I find no connection between their age and their obedience.

Out of interest, what breed is that, how many individuals are you talking about and what sex?

My experience is that the male deerhounds and IWs most certainly have an adolescent stage where selective deafness, jumping up, over excitability and general disobedience feature large. I have had the odd bitch who hasn't gone deaf or disobedient on me, but in my experience most of them do have a definite adolescent phase, though it's usually less intense than with the males. (I find that the deerhound bitches tend to be more of a problem when old - they know how to work the system, are very manipulative, decide that the rules don't apply to them - and know that they can get away with murder by making you laugh!)

this isnt a phase with mine, after all 3 isnt adolescence is it?. he started out that way as a youngster and slowly i have improved his behaviour with training and controlled meetings with other dogs,  my question is whether he will continue or improve or is this it???

:D My GSD will be six in April and hes just as exsightable around other dogs.He does behave though if i give him the old hairy eyeball. :) He can be a bit of a pain but i want a companion not an automatum.If i wanted a robot i would of bought a syberpet.A bit of unpredictability makes for a bit of fun. :)

guiness, i have read your posts before and noticed there may be a similarity in our dogs, thanks for the comforting words. I've had a bad day.

Some times i get a bit fed up too and ,though no dissrespect meant to anyone here,i do get fed up with hearing about these perfect people with thesee perfect dogs when mine are just bloody fools. :) It seems that everyone else has great well behaved dogs and mine are still slow at comming forward.I wouldnt say ive given up but i have relented and learnt to accept them for who they are.Im glad i did as they are wonderful dogs with the most brillient of personalities.I dont regret a thing. :D

My dogs are all perfect especially when they are asleep :D in fact thinking about it that's the only time they are perfect LOLOL

My GSD is 3, his name is Zak & he too is a character! I have had 2 rescue bitches previously (both rescued at approx. 3/4 years of age) & neither of them put a paw out of place!! Zak however, has been bloody hard work. I rescued him at 5 months from a backyard pen, living with 2 Staffordshre Bull Terries for company. I love him to bits & would never part with him, only on some bad days! He has been going to obedience for over 2 years, god knows what he would of been like if he hadn't. Today he has been doing recalls at 90 miles an hour & barking all the way! Trouble is he is only barking because he is enjoying his self, but the other dogs do get a bit worried. Our trainer is very good, thank goodness it's not too serious. I know I will never get to Crufts! He absolutely loves agility though, trouble is he can't hear me most of the time, because again he is barking his head off! I take him indoors every week & in the summer we do agility at our GSD class outside.

Seriously he has been hard work, but thank goodness once he reached 18 months he did start listening to me a little. At home he never takes his eyes of me, but give him other dogs in the vicinity & he can't take his eyes of them. He can be a bully with other dogs, but I am always in control & know exactly what to expect from him. We have plenty of time to improve, he is a lovely dog & I am very lucky to have such a character.

Hi I have a three year old GSD bitch also a nine year old one .
The three year old can be a little monster and has been so different to all the GSDs I,ve had or worked with in the past.  In the house she,s no trouble at all but out on walks she gets very silly when another dog is approaching luckily everyone knows us in the village where we live and know she is all talk but my other dog I walk with her looks at her as if to say " do you really need to embbarrass us like that"
At training class or even in the showring we never have any trouble with her and I,ve never treated her any differently from any other dog we,ve had she does however never let me out of her sight even to the extent of following me into the bathroom ( she,s here now with her head on my Knee) so I do wonder if she thinks I need protecting from other dogs.
I do know what you are going through  My girl has a really strong character and a very expressive face and sometimes I just feel she knows more than she should . Oh if only they could talk life would be so much simpler don,t you think?

Hi
Have not botherd to read the other posts ! sorry but so much c**p I have read on other posts.
Your DOG has its own personality  . Its up to you were the dog goes from here .
3yrs is nothing in the GSD
Just carry on with the basic training  NO MEANS NO  and every thing else a treat. If you need classes it would be good for the dog to socialize / mix with other breeds and owners.
Enjoy your friend and get close you never Know when they are taken from you .
I am not a breeder but have had a GSD  for 23 yrs  1 rescue AND 1 Kc reg.
Rescue lived till 14 yrs  Kc reg till 9   Died  28/11/05
I will be geting another  Kc reg 0n the 24 /2 /06 an looking forward to sleepless nights , pooy blankets etc.
GSD owners will all tell you each dog has its own personality and will respond to love and basic training
Enjoy your friend.

What many non GSD owners do not appreciate is that GSDs are a very vocal & physical breed when playing & my BC's who were/are brought up with GSDs also tend to play this way.. They sound as if the are being aggressive when in fact they are just being normal GSDs. They do tend to do a lot of mouthing at each other when playing & noise ;) my bitch sounds as if she is trying to kill my other dogs when in fact she is laid on her back being dive bombed by the cavaliers & Rjj(BC puppy)

I think most dogs even the best trained/behaved can have convenient deaf moments & it can depend on how to react to them, getting annoyed & shouting (not saying you do this0gets you nowhere as the owner of the first bitch I even trained for someone else found out

Don't forget also deep down the GSD is a herding breed & this can come to the surface at times

Dogs are dogs & never feel a failure your boy sounds very typical to me. Owning a purely pet GSD(nothing wrong with that BTW) is not like owning a schutzhund/Working Trials/Obedience(as opposed to Obedient)trained dog where the emphasis is on control in general. Your progress will be slower & maybe by the time is he 10 or 11 he will be perfect :D(joking BTW)

You might want to up the training when other dogs are around to engage his brain more & lengthen his concentration period

Morgan, what you may want to consider is finding yourself a really good trainer; there are lots of trainers but a few really special ones. These are the ones who will help lightbulbs to go on and will give you help and encouragement along the way if you have the commitment :)

JMO but it's what I've found. Also reading and learning as much as you can about "how" to train and about how dogs learn. It all helps to develop your skills along the way. You could start with some of the dogs magazines which have good "problem pages" and sections on behaviour and training... :)

Don't feel a failure, but yes you are fooling yourself, you need to take a firm grip on him, he should be exremely obediant by now they mature at different levels and he is still a young dog, but he should be fully trained well before this age.  I am glad that you are going to training classes they will help you and your dog, don't allow him to bully, lead him if necessary it is not nice for other dogs and their owners out on a nice walk.  I have owned two German Shepherd's in my life time, I see too many people who can not handle them they can soon fall into bad habits. Take control of him now, talk to your trainer who should  have given you quite a few tips of how to handle different situations already, and stick to them ridgedly, never, ever let him be the boss.

Dogs are very intelligent, once they realise you are the boss (and not a push over) they suddenly turn into respectful, obident, loving companions. :-)

Thanks for your replies everyone, I will keep up the training. I realise now that my response yesterday to his barking was incorrect as I started to shout at him, what I should have done was walk him away. Just a temporary set back, great to hear about other peoples dogs.

GSDs as a breed IME are a great deal more responsive to their owners than many of the more independent breeds hence why they are the breed of choice in so many disciplines.

Unfortunately it is human nature to blame the dog, others etc rather than ourselves for not having trained our dogs properly.

Outwith specific behavioural issues, training dogs is matter of knowing what you want, and being relentless in its pursuit and most of all being absolutely consistent, the latter what most owners have problems with (I am a woman, I know all about inconsistency) :D

I'm not sure what you mean by your dog is "not aggressive but a bully, but also a coward" - these are human-istic descriptions of him - can you describe what he actually does or doesn't do, that leads you to label him in these ways?

Ha! I know EXACTLY what Morgan means :rolleyes:. Had a girl just like this. In my opinion, it's the cowardice that brings the 'bullying' out. A kind of Lets do it to them before they do it to me approach! Plus, as others have said, it's a very Shepherdy attitude, which if not taken in hand can get worse the older they get, so you really do need to address it. Lots of hard work on the training front for you ahead, but I'm sure he will respond.

Also, I have ALWAYS experienced a level of adolescent 'up yours' I actually clearly registered this in my 10 month GSD boy the other day, I asked him to come back to me, he looked over his shoulder and stared at me, and I saw him make a decision not to respond, preferring to approach another dog, rather than return to me. Normally, he is consistent in his response. However, we will work harder on the recall again, and he will get past this stage. Having said this however, I would not put this down to adolescent behaviour at 3yrs!

Kat

Kat

trouble is they are so smart! I call mine back randomly on walks because he started scanning the horizon every time I called him back to see what it was I didnt want him to go to as it must be very worth seeing if I didnt want him to go! if you get my drift. Anyway I enjoy the challenge and he is so very much better than he was, who wants a boring dog, you would be hard pushed to find one more affectionate !!!