this is my first post ever,

i have come here for help,i need your thoughts as you guys are dog lovers,
on july 30th 2005,my daughters and i went to visit a friend who invited us up to visit his new bull mastiff puppies,who were cute,my daughters are animal lovers,and just as we were about to leave the owner brought the bitch through to show the girls how big they grow "what an idiot !!!"
the dog went straight for my 11 year old petite daughter demi,it went to kill her,it went for her throat but her natural instinct was to duck her head and the dog bit her face instead,my heart is so heavy writing this as i feel partly responsible for taking them there after much harping on their part,i wish i'd never told them of my friends offer,
anyway the dogs jaws were around my daughters face and the owner had to prize its jaws open and lie ontop of it so we could escape,off we went straight to local a+e dept,bleeding everywhere we were told to go to the next hospital 30 miles south,i had to drive her as there were no ambulances available for 2 hours.
     so we eventually get there and this is the extent of the injuries
100+ stitches,facial and dental reconstruction,nerve repair,pyschological damage to the whole family,luckily we are all still here,she was in theatre for 4 hrs.Horribly i could see her teeth through the big holes either side of her beautiful face,
all through this im getting texts from my friend saying "we will destroy dog on monday thats the least we can do"
after she got out she was so swollen and on fluids only through a syringe for two weeks,and having to live with what can only be described as a chelsea smile on a beautiful 11 year old girl.what a nightmare.
So two weeks after we go to police to make sure dog was destroyed and the police go up to the owner to find dog still alive and owners have no intention on destroying dog,so i had to charge my friend under the dangerous dogs act.
it finally came to court on friday 13th jan after some no-shows,lack of representation etc... to have a JP say she pled guilty,take better care of your dog and muzzle it when you go out,no fine ! no remorse !
When i told my young lass she cried all day,the rest of us were in shock.
Even the Procurator Fiscal was disgusted with the JPs decision and has moved for a re-trial as we dont think the jp even looked at the damage that the dog caused,plus the fact that i have known the particular JP since i was a wee boy and he never even noticed my name in the files which leads me to believe he never even read the file and was happy with a very brief summary,he is a dog lover which is very biased,so the local fiscal has gone to over-rule by going to crown prosecution in edinburgh.What a lack of justice !
Its never about money but she never even got a fine,my mind is in knots,i absolutely love my kids,and i have no good news for them.
we are all traumatised as a family,i cant take the kids to the park,my wife doesnt trust me taking care of the kids,we all need closure,there has been a civil claim raised by us against them but all we ever wanted was the dog put down.
the only good thing so far apart from here to still be here obviously is when she was attacked she pushed her 7 year old sister behind her to save her from attack and she was awarded a children of courage award from kids club direct and scottish power.
it was in all the papers.
She is so brave,she didnt shed a tear until she saw herself after the stitches came out,it was tears of joy that the surgeon managed to put her face back together.
if you have read this far i thank you for hearing our story,
if you have anything you would like to comment on in the post please do so and i will answer any questions or take in any advice given gladly,we are kinda lost,we are in a not very nice place again,we hoped that would be the end of it all,the saga continues
we need any angle to help us here,is there anything i've missed or have you been through something similar ?
please let me know.thank you x x

I am sorry, but much as I love my dogs, if one of mine were capable of mounting such an unmprovoked attack on a person in my home, I could not in concience have kept her alive. 

I would also have been thinking of putting the pups to sleep in case they had the same unstable nature.

I would be very surprised if there had not been earlier signs of instability in the dog, and breeding from such an animal is the height of irresponsibility.

i feel immensely sorry for you and your family, have you spoke to the person who owns the dog since the incident? has he seen your daughters scars?
stick together as a family and give each other courage to face the days ahead, thank god your daughter has a strong heart to carry on- hopefully this means she can move on with her life, slow it may be, its still progress.
Keep strong and hopeful however hard im sure it is x x

I'm so sorry to hear your story :-( My heart really does go out to you and your family.

Good Luck with the next court case xx

If you were in the owner's house it private property & the DDA doesn't apply. I'm not defending the owner, bitches can be protective when they have puppies & they should have been aware of this & at last have restrained her or better still let you see her through a window. This is why breeding dogs & bitches must be 100% character & temperament(one reason for showing etc & breed standards)

Best wishes to your daughter & your family & I hope you will be able to overcome this horrific incident

I'm so sorry to hear this , I totally agree with Brainless, the dog should be put to sleep, I sincerely hope your daughter who suffered this attack is coping, I can't imagine the terror she (and you all must have felt) you should talk to the owners, perhaps on neutral ground where you don't have to re live anything.
Regards Sonja

Totally agree with Brainless,

even contemplating breeding from this dog let alone going through with it, was such an irresponsible notion on this breeders part, especially if they knew the bitch had a temperament like u have described..i myself have only just started owning bitches, but have had dogs for years (GSD'S & ROTTIES)..

about 3yrs ago i acquired a 12week old gsd male, who as he got older it became apparent that he was very fear driven, this i found out was due to the orignal breeder being rather over enthusiastic with his fists & feet towards the parents, mayb even him aswell..i would never in a million years ever have considered breeding from him..

i pray that in time your daughter and the rest of your family, realise that not all dogs r like this and especially that all breeders are not mindless imbociles.

best wishes to u all for the future xxx

i'm so sorry, its the most shocking story, please let us know what happens.

i also must add in here,
one of my daughters best pals is a german shepherd bitch named bonnie who lives right next door to us,she loves children and always has,she barks at adults but never near children,she is of great temperment and i think has helped the kids through this,my daughters know that it was a one off nightmare-ish accident that never would have happened if the dog was owned by someone more responsible.
we have all learned a very hard lesson,we are all scarred inside for life but demi is inside and out.
life goes on thank god,keep the comments coming,im reading my daughter the comments,the loves them
THANK YOU with all our hearts x x x  from Iain,Wendy,Demi and Melissa x x x

i feel awful as i have to work in a factory for the same company and we havent spoke about this since he lied to me about putting the dog down,thanks for your concern,its much appreciated ok

How awful for you. I have a bitch that doesn't particularly like very young children,they used to tease her a lot hurting her at times, but she takes herself off to her bed. I know about her and make sure that any children coming in are kept well away from her. As I also have a daughter who was attacked (though not as badly as your little girl, and not by any of my dogs) I am fully aware of the repercussions. The visit to the hospital must have been terryifing for her, and you. Especially as you had to travel so far. Give her an extra hug tonight and let her know that we are thinking of yuo and your family. Like Brainless, and others, no dog of mine would still be alive if they had done anything like that. {{{{hugs}}}}

How awful for you. I have a bitch that doesn't particularly like very young children,they used to tease her a lot hurting her at times, but she takes herself off to her bed. I know about her and make sure that any children coming in are kept well away from her. As I also have a daughter who was attacked (though not as badly as your little girl, and not by any of my dogs) I am fully aware of the repercussions. The visit to the hospital must have been terryifing for her, and you. Especially as you had to travel so far. Give her an extra hug tonight and let her know that we are thinking of you and your family. Like Brainless, and others, no dog of mine would still be alive if they had done anything like that. {{{{hugs}}}}

I am so sorry to hear of your story. One cannot even start to imagine the trauma your little girl and the whole family has gone through and is going through.

I cannot comment, as we don't really know all the ins and outs of the case, but I just thought I'd write to say keep strong and as hard as this may seem, look forward to the future and not back at the past. You can change your future and how you live it, the past is gone. I know this is much, much easier said than done. Time is a great healer, be patient with yourselves.

I feel very sad for you as I write this. I wish you all the best for the future.

Best wishes,
Patty

my heart goes out to you and your family xxxx
i have dogs myself and if my dog was to bite anyone i would have her put to sleep .i could never take the chance she would do it again, and having children myself it would not me a chance i would take.

you and your family will be in my thought

I have just sat and read what has happened to not just Demi, but your whole family.
I love my dog and she is part of our family, it goes without saying. But if i thought for one moment that she was capable of such a vicious and unprevoked attack as this, i would not want to look at her again!
How could you ever trust the dog again, pups or no pups.
I'm sorry but i just can't understand what these people are thinking of!
Demi you sound such a brave girl, and to save your little sister from the attack is amazing. I have a little girl who is 8 and i shall be telling her your story tommorrow, she i believe will be humbled by your courage.
Chin up young lady, your a star!!

Just to add to everyone else -I am so sorry, tears in my eyes just reading it -I am myself a mother of 3. I love my dogs but I have always said if any of them ever injured any of my children with intent, or any other human, there would NEVER be a second chance, it's one strike and OUT or rather put to sleep. Absolutely.  Is there any way you can appeal against the decision? Like Moonmaiden said, the DDA applies when the dog is in a public space, but I still can't see how on earth the owners could have got out of this so easily -not to mention how they even could consider keeping the dog and the pups (to sell no doubt, to unsuspecting people!) and still sleep at night.

I suspect im gonna get lynched here but anyway...

You presumably had some idea of the size of a bullmastiff in comparison to your child.

Presumably you are also aware, having had children yourself, that when you have small babies your hormones are all over the place.

Bitches iwth pups can be the same.

Personally, you and the owner of the dog are responsible. You made bad decisions which are unfortunate. You and the bitch owner put your child at risk.

Had this occured in the street or the park with a dog picking out your daughter to savage  i would agree that the dog needed putting down and the owner cautioning about their abilities in controlling their animal.

However that was not the case, you chose to be there, the bitch didnt choose for you to cme and mess with her pups? She didnt choose to have pups either, a human did that too. The owner chose to drag her out in front of people and presumably she felt threatened because of her pups and she attacked.

If she has attacked children before then i agree she should never have been bred from. You dont say if that is the case.

So personally i agree iwth the verdict. The owner should take steps to prevent this happening again. I see no need to have the bitch or  her pups pts.

I know im going to be ripped to bits now becuase a dog ripped up a childs face.

What if the child HADNT been there. That dog would possibly have attacked an adult. Except adults dont have faces at dog level, they have knees and thighs there... so it wouldnt have seemed such a horrific attack would it?

Im just not sure i see why this bitch and her puppies must die for the irresponsible actions of adults.

Em

when i put this post in i did expect all sides of the story,the world is full of what ifs and if onlys,i feel soooo bad for giving into the childrens demands just to keep them happy,it seemed harmless at the time as last time i saw the dog she was only a puppy herself,and i had no idea how big those dogs grew,anyway had the dog growled ? NO .
had the dog barked ? NO .
did my children make any sudden movements ? NO.
believe me this dog wasnt saying please step away from my pups,which we were no where near at this point,SHE WENT TO KILL MY DAUGHTER,it was no warning! .
i could understand a growl to make us leave the room etc.......
the bloody dog walked past me and then lunged at my daughter in a cowardly attack,i was more of a threat than her,why did the dog not attack me ?
the owner had a hold of the dogs chain,but when the dog walked past me the owner didnt have a good enough grasp.
IT MAKES ME SICK TO REMEMBER THE OWNER SAYING TO ME AT WORK BEFORE THE INCIDENT ,MY DOG IS SOOO COOTHY SHE WOULDNT HURT A FLY  !!! MY ASS.
but thank you for those comments anyway,you have made me feel a little worse,but everyone is entitled to an opinion.

>i could understand a growl to make us leave the room etc.....

Unfortunately many dogs are taught that growling a warning is an unforgiveable thing to do, and are punished for it. So you get a dog that doesn't warn. :(

I 100% agree with you Em. It is an unfortunate incident and a horrible thing to have to happen to a little girl :( But if it were my dog i couldnt have her put to sleep either,it would be like putting one of my kids to sleep :( The owner however must ensure this does not happen again to anyone!

If she has attacked children before then i agree she should never have been bred from. You dont say if that is the case.

Iain??

To be honest there is nothing my dogs could do to warrant me killing them.The judge being an animal lover is right! I dont understand how getting the dog PTS will help anyone,especially the little girl The only thing putting the dog to sleep would serve is hurting the owner,revenge is not going to fix or help the child :(

And as for putting the pups to sleep as well as their mum,well i cant believe this was even mentioned :(  Hopefully the BM owner screens potential puppy owners very,very stringently anyway!

I think justification for putting the dog to sleep comes from the owner who thought the dog wouldn't hurt a fly.  If a dog is so unpredictable that the owner either doesn't know his own dog or is stupid to put inexperienced people in a situation that may cause a dog to attack then those reasons IMO are justification enough.  The child wasn't provoking it (something that many use to defend a dog when it bites a child) and the dog passed the adult to attack the child.  Surely the adult being bigger is the threat?  When you take on the responsibility of a dog that is so big and powerful you have to be competent enough to handle that dog, be able to trust it 100% or prevent it from ever being a danger to anyone. 

What if the dog had killed her?  Would you still feel the same and do you think the judge would have been so lenient?  I think not.  If it had been my dog and my child I would probably have wanted to kill it myself.  If it was my dog and someone elses child I would have no hesitation than to PTS. It's got nothing to do with punishing the owner it is all to do with preventing this happening again.

It doesn't matter whether the dog has attacked children before or not, it has now and that is enough to show that it is unreliable and Dangerous

If it were me I would take the story to national media.  GMT would do stories like this and if it catches enough interest the papers would pick it up from there.

What happened is awful, in this instance I would have had the bitch put to sleep. But I feel the owner is the one who should be severly punished. It is natural for a bitch who has had pups to be very overprotective and unpredictable. I really cannot understand why the owner let the dog greet a child.

To me if someone allows thier dog in a situation whereby they know the dog is hormonal and inistinctively protective of her pups as naturally a bitch would be. That they should be charged with the equivalent of ABH or similar, the dogs should be taken away, bitch put down and maybe pups rehomed.Add to that they are to not own or breed for a few years. But that is just my opinion.

I understand this is a very touchy subject, but to 'assume' that the dogs temperament is like this all the time may be jumping the gun a tad. It may be a one off, it may be the pups will not show any traits because the mother doesn't have the trait. That I cannot answer.

Best wishes and I hope that you can get this resolved.

Spitzed x

No where is there a suggestion that the children were in physical contact with the pups.

Having bred 11 litters from 5 different bitches I would not expect a dog of mine to show agression to soemone I had allowed in my home. 

I would expect her maybe to be watchful or go into her pups to check that they are all well, but attack someone, no way.

If the bitch was not in wth her litter at the time of the visit this would suggest they were not newborn, and the bitch should ahve been used to the pups being handled and visited and trusting of her owners in thsi regard.

'my daughters and i went to visit a friend who invited us up to visit his new bull mastiff puppies,who were cute,my daughters are animal lovers,and just as we were about to leave the owner brought the bitch through to show the girls how big they grow'

I am assuming, only by what has been written that the children did handle the pups, only when they went to leave the bitch was taken to meet the children. Now if the bitch was in another room and suddenly is shown a person with her babies smell all over them, that 'may' cause her to worry why that is so and determine that as bad.

Now yes many are lucky with having not encountered this ever, but it 'could' happen to anyone. No dog is 100% predictable, I know a few would disagree and say that thier dog would never bite, or attack and so on. I am not preaching, I am not wanting to cause an argument, I am just offering what may be a reason as to why the bitch acted like she did. I may be completely wrong. Just a theory.

Spitzed x

thank you for that aspect of that there,
the pups had just been washed,so we hardly touched them,
the girls maybe touched them with a finger but there was no holding of any kind,i know dogs have a great sense of smell,
no matter what,the dog made a decision to try to kill my daughter,not scare her,KILL HER
if it were a human they would be in jail right now,
if they are to be treated like equals in our world they should take the same consequenses.
We had no intention of harming the pups or taking any away,i like animals,i would have probably been able to accept this a lot easier if it were an arm bite or leg etc....
but as i say this was not a warning,IT WENT TO KILL !
For that reason and that reason alone i feel duty bound to ensure this doesnt happen again,there may not be a survivor next time.
i am very sorry to say this on such a wonderful forum but dogs are animals not equals as a lot of you have already pointed out.
thank you for all your support.

You have done that duty though, you ahve taken the matter to court and the court have judged that the owner take measures to prevent it happening again.

It was, and ignorance is no defence here, YOUR responsiblity to make sure your children are safe, and the breeders responsibility not to put his dog and his visitors at risk.

So here, you and the owner of the dog are to blame, not the dog.

You may well have had no intention to harm the animals but the dog may very well NOT have seen it that way. As you say, dogs are animals not human beings and they dont think the way we do.

I would suggest that you teach your children about how to act around dogs to hopefully keep themselves safe in future and let the matter go, you wont be doing your kids any favours by dragging it on and on and on.

Em

Hang on there.

How can the visitor be at fault in anyway?  He was invited by the owner so it's not as if he turned up unexpectedly.

If I came on this forum and said I have found a pup I want to buy but the owner won't let me see the mother, everyone would shout - something iffy, don't touch it with barge pole etc etc. so how can the visitor be at fault?  If the dog had attacked the father I doubt he would have been able to defend himself adequately to prevent injury bearing in mind the size and strength of this breed so how would he be able to protect his child against an unexpected attack? 

General questions to all: if you took your children to view puppies (especially of a guarding breed) and the mother entered the room and appeared to ignore you, but eyeballed your child, would you just stand there and allow the dog to approach your child unchecked? As experienced dog owners, you do have a distinct advantage over anyone going to see puppies that does not know dogs. Experienced dog owners would be aware that bitches can be defensive of their puppies and are likely to react 'out of character' and would be paying alot of attention to the bitches mannerisms. Would you rely on the bitches owner to read their dog and to protect your children or would you be watching out for them as well? Please note that these are general questions and not about this particular case :)

There are experienced dog owners and there are owners experienced only with their own dogs and the two are completely different.  To be fair we weren't in the room and didn't see what happened but from the first post it seems there wasn't any interaction, verbal or non-verbal that would have given the father a chance to interpret what was about to happen.  The post reads that the dog came into the room and immediately attacked.

It's easy to see what should have taken place in retrospect but I would have thought commonsense on the part of the owner would have been to bring the dog in on a lead.  Afterall he didn't know what reaction the children would give to a dog that size, the owner was expecting the children to be surprised so presumably the children had no idea how big the dog would be.  The owner should have pre-empted that the children might have been frightened, made a noise or bolted for the door which could have triggered a reation.  It doesn't read that any of that took place.  The post reads that the attack was sudden and immediate on seeing the strangers in its home.

Read my post again :) I was not asking questions in relation to the original post but a general question on this topic.

As an experienced owner, i wouldnt take children to see puppies!

If i was visiting a litter for the first time witha  view to buy, i would not take children with me, they are not helpful when having serious conversations about health tests, pedigree etc and i wouldnt take them until a second visit with the breeders permission, having seen the pups and bitch myself.

Then, yes i would watch the dogs body language myself. Of course the dog owner should know their animal, and should be careful, but children can do things, like stare for instance, which wouldnt necessarily be noticed, but could be VERY provoking to a dog, and the adult responsible for the child is just that, responsible for the child.

Em

Hi theemx
that parent, might not know about a dogs body language etc That is the responsibility of the bitch owner.
Also if that parent was told that the dog wouldn't hurt a fly, who is he to say any different??
not trying to have a go but trying to see it from somebody that is naive about dogs behaviour!
I also disagree about the not taking children to view pups theory as I feel that if the children couldn't mix with the pups (with them being comfortable etc) then I wouldn't want the pups!
Also I would want to know all abut health testing etc before I even entertained viewing pups. Just my opinion.
Emma

Sorry - went off on one :rolleyes:

When my children were small I was protective of them regarding dogs I didn't know and would make sure any meeting or touching was controlled on both sides.  If I saw a dog 'eyeballing' my child and ignoring me I would definitely feel uneasy and would want the owner to take control of the dog.

My dad grew up with vicious Alsations (as they were then).  He drummed it into me that you can't trust a dog 100% and when people say my dog wouldn't hurt a fly, he would say, I know that, you know that but does the dog know that?  I know a lot of people do trust their dogs 100% and they will probably never have a problem but realistically you can't know exactly what a dog is thinking or feeling in every situation because the scenarios change subtley everytime i.e. different types of strangers

The Op said the bitch was brought in on her chain, and the owner was unable to hold her.

Missed the bit where he said the dog was on a chain. :rolleyes:

I don't think the OP is highly experienced in dogs, certainly not in breeding.    Personally, as a parent and also an owner and breeder of a guarding breed I would exercise caution when visiting a litter but equally would expect the breeder of the litter to know the character of their bitch sufficiently and to not put the bitch, pups or visitors in a stressful or potentially dangerous situation.  Certainly I would be observant and get between my daughter and an apparently anxious / distressed / resentful bitch but there is nothing in the OP's post to suggest there were any warning signs that an average pet owning family would pick up on.

I was very much in tune with how my bitch was behaving when she had her litter and she was not in any way defensive about letting people she knew see her pups, even when they were very young.  That said, I made a point of sitting between her and any visitors so that if she was remotely upset I could ask them to leave her in peace.  From the moment they were born they were regularly handled by all family members and she was not in the least concerned by this and was happy to show them off to close friends and other relatives by the time they were 3-4 weeks.

Hormone levels and good old Mother Nature will affect different bitches in varying ways but the severity of attack as described is not IMO defensible.   A growl, snarl, even snap could easily be assessed as natural protective instinct but on the information available this was over-kill :(   The onus for over all responsibility in this partcular scenario seems to me to belong to the breeder who should have been better able to guage the mother's behaviour - he after all invited the family to view the pups. 

I would not rely on the bitches owner; I'd probably go on my own the first time too :)

Lindsay
x

I agree with the points that you raise entirely Admin, which is why I think that breeding should be left to people with experience and not anyone who owns a bitch!
There is FAR more to breeding dogs than to mate a dog and a bitch, with very far reaching implications, as this case shows..

I agree Val & of course that is why we are so passionate about first time breeders being fully aware of the pros & cons & pitfalls of breeding a litter

I was very fortunate that all the bitches I bred from were non protective over their puppies(possibly because I prefer laid back dogs with 110% characters) however I never ever allowed children near the puppies when the bitch was around & introduced the bitches to the visitors before they saw the puppies

People don't realise, especially if they don't have experience, how dogs will respond in any given situation.  The same applies to children, it doesn't matter how well behaved they are, they still do what we might consider totally stupid or inappropriate things because they learn through exploration and experiences. 

AS I HAVE NEVER BEEN A DOG OWNER I NEVER LOOKED FOR ANY SIGNS APART FROM GROWL OR BARK ,SHE SEEMED HAPPY ENOUGH,BUT LITTLE DO I KNOW,
I CANNOT TAKE THAT DAY BACK.
I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT HER INSTINCTS WERE BUT COULD NEVER CONSIDER HER ACTIONS OK,OR ACCEPTABLE IN THE LEAST
AGAIN I STATE SHE WENT TO KILL !
A BARK WOULD'VE SAID GET AWAY FROM MY PUPS,AND WE WOULD'VE RUN FOR THE HILLS,
the dog did not eyeball my child,i'm telling you it was over in less than 20 seconds
READ THE SUN NEWSPAPER TOMORROW

Iain, how old were the puppies when this happened?

>AS I HAVE NEVER BEEN A DOG OWNER I NEVER LOOKED FOR ANY SIGNS APART FROM GROWL OR BARK ,SHE SEEMED HAPPY ENOUGH,BUT LITTLE DO I KNOW,

Iain, some of the posts on here are now talking about approaching dogs in general and are not directly aimed at your situation ;)

Please read my post again. It clearly states that the questions have been broached around the general subject and NOT about your particular case.

This thread is by no means an attack on you or condoning what happened or the situation. You took the trouble to post on our forum and instigate a debate. This is now what you are getting :) Incidently, I can not see what your instruction to read the sun newspaper is about, but will give it a miss thank you :)

the dog sould have been put down right away , if you think you know your dog and it done that to the child,the dog is not safe around anyone.end of

I have to agree

you wont be doing your kids any favours by dragging it on and on and on.

I would think it best to try and put this behind you,instead of, like Em said, drag it on and on, not letting go.I imagine a child attacked by a dog would want to try and forget about it and put it behind them.Not have their parents relentlessly pursuing it and keeping it at the forfront of their lives for perhaps,years to come.

What does your daughter want? :)

Again as Em wisely said,the matter has been judged and the decision made.

If you want to take this further you could be at it for years and years to come and be very much out of pocket to boot.By the time this is resolved the dog may have died of old age anyway??

I ask once again,what will putting this dog to sleep achieve,other than revenge on the owner and cumupence for the dog? It may make you feel better but it is not going to take away your daughter's physical/emoptional scars,nor will it make this whole mess go away.

No Hailey,
it may not take away his daughter's physical/emoptional scars but it will stop some other defenseless child of this happening to them, because it is clear from the op that the owner doesn't have control over the bitch even when on a chain in there own home, so how is he meant to prevent this when out in the street ?!?

Just out of interest, how old were the puppies? (You may have already said, but I can't find it! :o ) Your original post said "his new bullmastiff puppies". It's an unusual bitch who'll accept strangers with her newborn litter - even vets teach trainees never to get between a bitch and her whelps. By the time the litter's about 5 weeks old bitches are generally happier to allow visits.

I'm very sorry for your daughter, and your entire family must be terribly shocked. The protectiveness you naturally feel for Demi is what all animals (and humans are animals too) feel for their young. Unfortunately different species are very bad at understanding one another. :(

Exactly that is what worries me. :rolleyes: