We have recently adopted a 5 year old Dogue de Bordeaux. We have had him now for just over a week. He is very placid and has a wonderful character.

He is however not very good at meeting certain new people that come round.

The first day we had him a sky tv engineer came into the home, was greeted by Marley at the door and was fine with the engineer, no barking and tail wagging.

The next new visitor was a female friend of mine, he barked at her initially then once she had entered was fine with her and let her rub his tummy. We then had a male friend come over and he barked again then was at ease once the person had entered.

We then had an encounter with a neighbour at the communal doors the other day and he barked at her as she went up the stairs.

Last night we went out for dinner and left him at home alone for 2 hours, he is used to being left alone before with the previous owners. My parents, sister and her husband wanted to meet him, so my partner went in first and said hello and reassured him and checked to see if he had eatern or chewed anything. All was well and Marley was relaxed.

Until my parents and sister and her husband came in.

Basically Marley was in the living room, my parents came into the corridor and my dad said 'ohh my he is massive', this then prompted my sister and her husband to dash out of the flat in fear. I am not sure if Marley saw this reaction or not. Marley then barked and then growled at my dad and mum. My parents stood still and tried to ignore him averting their gaze. I called Marley and he came to me tail wagging, I gave him a treat but then he dashed back to my father and snapped at him. I realise now I may have been giving the wrong signal and Marley may have thought that the treat was a reward for barking and growling. I handed some treats to my dad but then Malrey refused the treats and growled at him. I was in the living roomt ehy were still in the corridor. maybe I should have stood with my parents and hugged them?

We then went into the kitchen whereby I fed marley some more treats and praised him, he was fine for a minture then rushed back to my dad and growled again.

In the end I had to shut him in the living room.

I felt awful as my dad is sure that Marley would have bitten him.

Apparently Marley is not used to meeting new people in the home, at previous home he didn't like the grandparents and they were so scared that Marley had to be shut outside whent hey came over.

Now I am thinking of getting him a baskerville muzzle to put on him when they next come over and try and enforce gentle and calming introduction to them in a safe manner. They will be more relaxed knowing he cannot bite them and he can then be socialized with more control. I shall do this with anyone he is unsure of and of course for vet visits.

Any advice welcome, I feel so sorry for Marley it must be all to for him to take in what with the new home, new owners and I know all he is trying to do is protect me.

But I want him to be comfortable with new people and for them to be comfortable with him.

Spitzed x

He is defending his teritory, has he been castrated? He obviously hasnt been managed in the past and due to his age you may find that this situation is going to be very difficult. He knows that your dad is fearfull of him and currently he has the upper hand over your dad, it is a difficult one maybe you should speak to a behaviourist, but I think you will have your work cut out.

Yes he has been castrated. I also understand that he is defending his territory. As I mentioned though he is not like this with everyone he meets.

I believe that most dogs can be rehabilitated, it takes time and patience.

Yes it will take some time in getting him used to people he is usure of. I would like to try and remedy this myself and only if after a prolonged period of no improvement would I get a behaviourist in.

Spitzed x

I can understand why you would like to do this yourself, but you can do all sorts of damage by incorrect diagnosis - if he is fearful for example, rather than simply defending, then the wrong kind of actions could add to his fear :(  If I were you, I'd ask my vet for a referral to a member of the APBC or the UKRCB if you are in the UK.

I agree with digger .
I would definitely get a behaviourist in I certainly wouldnt try and remedy this myself as it takes a professional.
It could be your manner that make him feel he has to protect you.
You have to feel safe and make sure everyone who visits your home are safe he is a very big boy and could cause a lot of damage.(sorry dont mean to offend) its not worth taking  chances with any dog.
As much as I adore them.

Your poor Dad must have been very frightened I know I would and I just love 'em...

Roni

DDB's are well known for being wary so I would ensure that you have the correct diagnosis too.  I think thatyou may well find that he is not defending his territory and that it's more a fear reaction.

Hope all goes well and you find someone who has enough knowledge of the breed to help you as I think in the right hands they are a fantastic breed.

If he was like this with everyone then I would say it would be fear, but I truely believe it is a defensive stance.

My father was scared, he did his best to hide that fact by averting gaze and being still and relaxed. Understandably anyone who is faced with a growling dog that lunges at them would get a raised heart rate.

He didn't do it as much to my mother, she is smaller though and I suppose looks less threatening. After 5 mins he ignored my mother and just had gripe with my father.

This is a learning process for us and the dog, so easy for people to pipe up and say ohh go and get a behaviourist right now. I still think I should try and sort this out myself and only when I feel I have exhausted all I haveknowledge of shall I then get someone who has more.

Also just because a behaviourist is part of an association and has letters behind them does not always guarantee that their methods are the right ones and can make things worse rather than better.

We all have to use our own judgement and have confidence in ourselves, otherwise we will turn into a nation of people who call up the behaviourist every 5 mins because we are too lazy to figure out the problem.

Spitzed x

I'm sorry if my reply wasnt what you wanted to hear .
I have had dogs for many years and never had one that was showing signs of attacking visitors to my home but if I did I would go down that road as I wouldnt feel I could trust him with anyone including myself eventhough he is choosy about who he will accept and who he takes a dislike too.

I understand that you are trying your best to give this boy a loving caring home and applaud you for it.
You asked for opinions and that was mine.

I had a small problem with both my girl only a few weeks ago with changes in their attitude to each other I had no problem in asking for people advice on the matter and asked a trainer/beh friend what her opinion were she asked me a few questions  and to cut a long story short she sorted it out one was coming into season and they were  arguing over my OH as they both wanted his attention...it was hormonal she told me how to deal with it and we are back to a happy household ...they are the best of friends once again.
I had never had bitches before so had not come across it.
I dont think its a case of being lazy....

We have a canine behaviour centre close to us ( the famous colin tennant runs it), I have emailed them to enquire how much they charge and shall go from there.

In the meantime until they come and visit I shall get a muzzle just in case.

I am assuming they would want to do a home visit and possibly with my dad here to see the reactions.

Thank you for all your advice I know you all mean well, and I apologize for the being lazy remark, my hormones are all over the place. hmmmm hold on a sec, I am menstruating at the moment, would that make him more protective?

Spitzed x

I would suspect that in the past he has been rewarded for barking at nervous people, ie they remove themselvse fast. Possibly originally he was scared, or maybe some people scare him and some dont (my dogs arent fans of men with beards, as such my dad gets barked at A LOT if he comes here!).

Most definately, get a behaviourist in before inviting loads of people round, invest in a muzzle that fits properly and IF you have to have someone in to mend something etc, use it, but dont be tempted to set up situations yet.

Em

am taking him to the petshop tomorrow so that we can find the correct sized muzzle for him.

Funnily my dad does have a beard, but he also has large muscles and a big belly. I suppose he may look scary to a dog lol

Spitzed x

To be honest, if it WAS defensive, I would expect to occur more frequently - fear of a certain type of human, or human behaviour would happen less frequently and more as you describe.

It's not easy to say 'go and get a behaviourist' - I'd love to give you a long list of things your could try, but a) 90% of them wouldn't help your dog, and b) if I went along with your diagnosis of 'defensive' rather than fear and gave you ways to stop your dog being 'defensive' all that would happen is that he could start other, even less desirable behaviours - such as not giving any kind of warning and simply snapping, and I'm sure you wouldn't want that.

Another thing you may like to think about is 'fame' - fame does not a good behaviourist make - Ms. Victoria Stillwell is 'famous', but very few dog trainers have heard of her, and very few find her methods 100% ideal, and I'm afraid Colin Tennant is still supporting so called 'dominance theory' the last time I heard, and that has been debunked http://www.dog-dominance.co.uk/

Indeed quite true, although there are a few behaviourists at his centre not just him, I think he does more TV and book related stuff these days. Of course I shall research any behaviourist before I choose them. As I do not like the dominance method either.

After thinking about it it seems it may be fear afterall. I do not mind in admitting that I preceived it incorrectly, but you have to understand that so much was happening that I have been putting the puzzle together so to speak.

Have spoken briefly to the previous owner this evening to try and find out if Marley has displayed this behaviour before, my partner will speak to him in a little while but at present is having an afternoon nap lol

Apparently Marley doesn't like large macho men. It may also be how my partner was reacting,he seemed to stay out of the way and let me try and sort the situation out. It all happened so fast and am desperately trying to remember any important bits of information.

Spitzed x

Be very carefull with him. He has only been with you a week and it is to early to know just how far he will go as he will still be unsure of his surroundings. Once he gets a handle on his status and all of your positions in the family, he could be a lot lot worse? Also, his owner that was, why did they re-home him and can you trust what they have told you 100% about him? A powerfull dog can do a lot of damage, all in the blink of an eye and very often, out of the blue.

Good luck with him and I hope it all pans out well.

I would like to correct myself, we will have had him 2 weeks this Tuesday. I discovered something earlier when i took him out for a walk on my own. Usually he ignores everyone, and he did this evening until he saw a couple with 2 dogs walking on the other side of the road and he growled and barked at them. I ignored him and then walked on, I didn't praise him just kept walking.

Now I think that yesterdays growling was to do with how he views me, he sees me as a leader of the household and listens to my commands moreso than my partner. My mistake yesterday was that I was praising him and giving him treats to distract him. I should have ignored him and then placed him in the lving room alone for while. I should have then let him out and only if he ignored everyone then I would have commanded him to sit.

I think that my leadership was questioned and he had got confused, he assumed that the new people were a threat to me and possibly was trying to assert dominance over them. I of course was giving him attention whilst this was going on.

As to the question of the owners, we know them very well the husband is my partners brother, and they also have a 2 year old child which Marley adored, Marley likes all kids. Not that I would ever let him loose with one mind he would knock them over, but is best to be cautious with all dogs and children. They rehomed him because he was being left indoors alone for 10 hours a day and it was making him miserable.  They were finding it difficult to take him for long walks and give him attention. They both work, and having to wash, feed and attend to child, work, have thier dinner, then added to that taking Marley for walks, feeding him etc ohh and having builders in for the past serveral months was proving too much time wise for them. My partner works from home, we both know Marley already, we are able to take him on at least 4 walks a day. We have the time and patience to give this dog another 5 or so years of happiness and companionship.

I can trust 100% what they say, and after the phone call this evening discovered my partner had remembered a previous dog in regard to the grandparents and was not Marley he was thinking of. So Marley was fine with visitors at his previous home.

Yes a powerful dog can do alot of damage due to body size and size of jaw, but all dogs can. I have been bitten by dogs before and the ones that bit were small dogs.

Day by day I am discovering more and learning more about him. Each dog is different in my experience.

Am still going to seek more advice and get the muzzle too.

I am feeling alot more confident, blimey I wish they could talk lol

Spitzed x

Um. Dont think its dominance.

If he stopped growling or barking and came to you, for which you then gave him a treat, that is rewarding him coming to you and not barking.

I think and i said it before, some types of people he has a fear of, possibly he has never seen men with beards or hats or tattoos or could be any NUMBER of things.

If you treat him as if he is trying to get one over on you, which i can absolutely assure you he is not, and in fact he is frightened, can yous ee how that can end up very bad?

Em

He did this a couple of times and then ignored me.

I am not dissagreeing with you, I am just trying to piece the puzzle. His body language was tail up, ears up, made himself look bigger and ran at my father then turned and brushed past him, head to the side.

This same body language I observed when out walking earlier and he barked and growled at the people over the road, neither were tall or large or had beards. These are the only two times the has growled at people. He has barked at a few people who have come over but not growled.

I am not saying I am right and you are wrong, I am trying to gather as much information as I can. It will also make it easier to then explain to the behaviourist, the more info I have the better I can be advised.

Spitzed x

No probs. :)

Just be very careful not to see things that arent there, from the dogs point of view, two weeks in a new home is not really long enough to be very comfortable and then a large group of people all coming in at once .... well it would wind my dogs up and they are soft as anything!

Em

Out of interest, was he alone with the builders at his previous home? That could explain a lot of his attitude esp. if he barked at them and they shouted at him or even worse.

If he was alone, with the owners at work, they could have teased him or anything...just a thought :)

Lindsay
x

thanks Em.  :)

Well we had another new visitor today and he has travelled a long way so would couldn't send him back.

He came in with my partner and Marley did the barking and growling, visitor stood still and ignored him, my partner issued the command quiet and finally a loud sharp ahahhh!, I stood in the living room and ignored Marley.  Also partner at one point placed his arm around new person, Marley then barked at my partner, so partner moved away. This helped, Marley came to my partner and partner reassured him. Marley would periodically would run up to me to see a response, I gave none,I just acted normally but no praise this time. I also noticed that with all the growling he was wagging his tail.  So Em you seem to be right, he is just scared of new people. After a few minutes Marley calmed down and had a good sniff at the new visitors groin. Visitor then came and shook my hand and we both sat down. Marley then came to me quietly and I rewarded him with my attention. Marley then sat by the visitors feet and promptly fell asleep. Visitor will be staying the night and Marley is comfortable with him. We have also been on a couple of long walks all together today.

Finally I have moved Marleys bed to the living room by the radiator, he had not been using his bed, it was placed in a large cupboard in the corridor but he didn't use it, I am assuming due to the fact he could not see us from there. Silly of me to forget about it, tis the only thing that has all his smell over it.  He is now happily snuggled up in his bed and very content.

So all in all it worked.

Had an email back from the behaviourist centre, they will come and visit for £115.00 for an hour or two, accertain the situation and then give me a full report and instructions on how to proceed with training him. Will post the email they sent when I have time but must really get back to chatting to our guest.

I think we have achieved something today, we just need to get to the point where is doesn't bark at all at someone new, but at least this is a first step. I agree two weeks isn't long enough to be very comfortable and realise 4 people may have been a bit much for him.

Spitzed x

ohh this morning he barked at the postman that was on the other side of the road. Although I have never known any dog to like postmen. Is it the uniform?

Spitzed x

Have read somewhere that I should make the experience of when new visitors be rewarding. ie. bowl of chicken pieces to give to dog and for the visitor to throw bits to at a distance. So essentially then after a while dog will associate new guests with getting lots of nice bits of chicken. Also not letting the dog greet people at the front door was suggested too.

new guests= fun and chicken.

Although I used no treats today mainly praise and tummy rubs, we did take him for a fun walk, which he loved. He loves normal walks, but when we reach the field and take him off the lead he is so happy and bounces about like a pup.

Anyhoo I am rambling now aren't I.

Spitzed x

Okies

Dont shout at him for barking, he is just expressing his feelings, and shouting will do one of two things.

A/ he will think you are joining in.

B/he will associate new people with being shouted at.

If you absolutely have to have guests, ask them not to approach him or stare at him or anything, just ignore him. If he is by you or your partner, being calm and quiet, reward and you can let him knkow you have treats for when guests come round.

Absolutely do not let guests force themselvse upon him, and there are the kind of people out there who will say 'ooooh i know dogs he will be fine he doesnt mean anything' and tries to get near the dog and BLAM, visitor bitten. So you need to be able to be FIRM with people and protect your dog from them.

If he seems calm and quiet with guest in the house, perhaps allow them to drop a treat near him. DONT allow them to go up to him going  'here nice doggy have a treat' thats threatening.

As far as postmen go, a vast number of dogs have learned to be defensive and barky about them. They look very similar in their uniforms and they come to a dogs territory, shove stuff in it and run away when the dog barks. So the dog barks more. The dog has NO idea that the postman has to do his job and would leave evne if he wasnt barked at.

Dogs on leads are often frightened of other dogs and feel the need to be defensive. Thats because they have figured out they CANNOT run away, and often its encouraged by owners who feel apprehensive when they see another dog, and tighten the lead. The dog senses this and thinks 'somethings not right here, ill scare that other dog off'.

I think with reward for behaving nicely, and preventing him from being threatened you will make lots of progress with this dog. Please do see the behaviourist though and let us know what he said. And dont be tempted to set your dog up to see what will happen or anything like that, if in doubt, muzzle him or put him in another room where he cannot get into trouble.

Em

Glad things are progressing well, spitzed. It's a funny old thing this aversion to postmen isn't it? Nips doesn't actually dislike our postman (he was formally introduced to him at 9 weeks old!) but if we get home from the station in the morning and are still in the car when his van arrives at the end of the drive, he really tells the postie's fortune!! 

I've often thought that the general problem might be that postmen don't behave like ordinary visitors. So although they come up to the front door they then take liberties with the letterbox which suggests to a dog that someone, and something, distinctly dodgy is going on.