I am 'in' the dog training world and had not heard of her prior to the TV programme either, as far as I can gather she is an actress with an interest in dogs.

"Victoria has 100% success?"  I am sorry but I dont believe everything I see on TV and dont believe in quick fixes, banging saucepans and that castration solves it all.  Where did she qualify as a behaviourist?  What is her degree in?  As far as I know she isnt a member of the APDT or APBC?

Last TV programme she was a dog trainer and now she is a dog behaviourist?

I would not say I am a chav or jealous as I have my own clients and a high success rate - all of which I have NOT achieved in 30 mins or by recommending quick fixes and donning knee hight boots (now thats a thought :-) )

editied to add I have just checked out that link - she has been training dogs less than me.... she must have good business sense if she can set up schools with no canine qualifications and not much experienced......  

Taken from Channel 4's website: http://www.channel4.com/entertainment/tv/microsites/I/itsmeorthedog/interview.html

Meet Victoria Stilwell, an actress-turned-dog-trainer whose expertise has seen her start training schools in both Britain and the United States, and helped her become the behaviourist in Channel 4's new series It's Me Or The Dog.

It also says on there she became interested in the 'new way of training' - so whats with the saucepans then eh?

Just out of interest where are her training schools in the UK?  Does setting up a training school help you become a behaviourist?

Hi ,when my puppies are leaving to their new homes I always warn the new owners not to rough and tumble with the pups as when they become excited they sometimes do bite ,as if playing with their siblings . This can become a habit then ,whenever they want to play ,they bite especially with young children . I think that puppies usually try biting at some stage and need to be told in no uncertain terms that you are the boss not another pup . I always have a little dog chew or toy with me and after any biting I say a firm NO put the chew in his mouth and walk away .

i judge too, ive never heard of herB4 that programme. i wouldnt go to her for lessons either

Funny you should say that because she's been a trainer for many many years, is well known in the dog training world, and my dog training friends know her through trainers that they know.

Hm many many years since like 1999 wow many many 6 yaers ROFLMAO  see link below to her blog

http://www.biogs.com/snippets/stilwell.html

jeangenie meant that you can only be sure she was successful because you've seen them on tv- or if you know her personally. and so she has only done 12ish shows so far- so you can only base how succesful she is by them.

every dog has to treated individually- that adult male bulldog isnt the same as a 4month female crossbreed.

> I'd like to point out that Victoria has success with every dog she "treats". ,<

Has she really so you have records of all her "cases"from the states & she's never had a failure Golly Gosh not even the great JF claims that !

Your friends have never had a failure either ? Wow tell me who they are & I'll send them the worst of the dogs sent to me for a guaranteed cure it will save me a load of time & effort

Suggesting that a 4 month old puppy has long term behaviourial problems when TBH it is being a puppy in a household with a young child(not always the best mix IMHO based on a very short period of only 40+ years of professionally training problem dogs)& to suggest the VS's "method of air horn, pan lids etc is a one size fits all that will suit this very young puppy is well I better not write otherwise I will get banned

Where exactly have I stated that a 4 month old puppy has long term behavioural problems?

Where did I write it was you your alter ego suggested that & you suggest VS one size fits all method to cure it

I'm really not interested in sitting at my PC and having slanging matches with a bunch of people who reckon their opinion is the only opinion worthy. Do you lot sit at your PC all night ready to pounce on a victim and tear their advice to shreds? Is that the only satisfaction you get? I was merely offering advise. If someone chooses not to try it, then that is absolutely fine. It's a free world and they may wish to try any combination of things.

I originally joined to research the effects of some medication my dog is on. I thought whilst I was on here I would offer some help. But it seems to have turned into a ridiculous slanging match.

My last piece of advise before I quit this site (cos I really dont need the grief) is find out facts before you make wild accusations.

Off back under the bridge then

Inquiries aren't accusations.

Dog management is a serious matter, and anyone giving advice must be able to back it up if queries arise. To do otherwise is risking lives.

My last piece of advise before I quit this site (cos I really dont need the grief) is find out facts before you make wild accusations.

Surely that is EXACTLY what is being done....... Not listening to hearsay.

Off back under the bridge then

My last piece of advise before I quit this site (cos I really dont need the grief) is find out facts before you make wild accusations.

Oh like she's been dog training for 6 years ? that's from her blog me dear not from my head

i think people got worried because in a matter of a short space of time you offered the same piece of advice to 2 different cases, straight after that programme that alot of us watched and it seemed quite obvious that you had just got that info straight from that.

i can only advise on subjects that ive had experience with- so thats all i do :)

It is quite clear to those clear headed people that there is a genreration gap between a young attractive Victoria Sitwell whose methods work 100% of the time, who is rich, famous and with imense charisma and those dinasores trying to sell old outdated methods rehjected by Ms Sitwell and anyone else with any common sense. Maybe the route to go with this Puggle is Ms Sitwell, others seem to have had their dy and did not make it, she has made it and the TV star is on every week as proof, not writeing on here as a wanabee.

>a young attractive Victoria Sitwell

Who?

when she wins a ticket in obedience i will take her more seroiusly

It is quite clear to those clear headed people that there is a genreration gap between a young attractive Victoria Sitwell whose methods work 100% of the time, who is rich, famous and with imense charisma and those dinasores trying to sell old outdated methods rehjected by Ms Sitwell and anyone else with any common sense. Maybe the route to go with this Puggle is Ms Sitwell, others seem to have had their dy and did not make it, she has made it and the TV star is on every week as proof, not writeing on here as a wanabee.

Who's Victoria Sitwell then a GGG daughter of Edith Sitwell the children's author ?

We were discussing Victoria Stilwell who has had one 6 program series & has just got another 6 program series hardly every week unless your year is only 12 weeks  not months long

> Victoria Sitwell

Bang goes my theory then. I was beginning to think that with all the overly flattering remarks that Victoria Stilwell and Ruth Youth (plus possibly another 1) were the same person :D

It is quite clear to those clear headed people that there is a genreration gap between a young attractive Victoria Sitwell whose methods work 100% of the time, who is rich, famous and with imense charisma and those dinasores trying to sell old outdated methods rehjected by Ms Sitwell and anyone else with any common sense.

If YOU did some reasearch you'd find that a lot of Stilwell's methods are considered very much outdated. :) I would also like to know where the proof of them working 100 % of the time is?

victoria stilwell fan number 1****! i dont mind the lady but you are making her out to be the new god!

"wild accusations" refer to the accusations made against me being a DIY trainer etc..., not against Victoria.

I personally have had experience with the methods I stated. My dog is extremely happy and healthy (apart from old age incontinence) and has never been scared of me. i have helped many others train dogs with good results. and know trainers who have had years of experience

different methods work for different dogs and this will always be the case. I can only offer advise on methods that I know of and have experience in.

Moonmaiden, you refer to "one size fits all". Well Isn't this exactly what you are doing? you seem to think you are the only expert out there and that you are the only person in the world with any worthy knowledge or experience, and that your methods are the only ones to take note of.

If you were that good, you wouldn't be spending your time sitting behind your PC slagging everyone else off.

Farewell

Moonmaiden, you refer to "one size fits all". Well Isn't this exactly what you are doing? you seem to think you are the only expert out there and that you are the only person in the world with any worthy knowledge or experience, and that your methods are the only ones to take note of.

If you were that good, you wouldn't be spending your time sitting behind your PC slagging everyone else off.




I do not have my methods I don't lay claims to having invented any training methods unlike some"celeb"trainers

I wonder why VS wasn't used in the Celeb dog training school competition she obviously would have them all trained too quickly I supposed so they had to make do with bog standard trainers like Donelda Guy ;)

Unbeleivable moonmaiden you have made 5550 posts on here, a free interent posting chatroom board and Victoria Stilwell  is a highly paid star proibably half your age, its the ones we watch on TV who made it, not the ones who write here and say 'I made it', maybe you could try some of Victrias methods and catch up with the rest of us.

i dont think moonmaiden particularly wants to 'make it'- may not be money orientated, MM may just post here because they enjoy sharing advice, im sure MM also mentioned she was young too!

Money & fame cannot buy/achieve happiness ask George Best's son Give me the satisfaction of training a dog to become a canine good citizen any day

Unbeleivable moonmaiden you have made 5550 posts on here, a free interent posting chatroom board and Victoria Stilwell  is a highly paid star proibably half your age, its the ones we watch on TV who made it, not the ones who write here and say 'I made it', maybe you could try some of Victrias methods and catch up with the rest of us.

ROFLMAO

I prefer to help the dogs than bolster my ego & bank balance BTW I train dogs not people

BTW who is this new person Victrias whose methods are not hers but those of trainers of the old school

Only 5550 Oh dear there are those with many more than me I better post more :D

Is it half term again or have some schools not gone back yet ?

Yes the schools started again- so they must be staying up late on a school night- naughty naughty!

Curlynutters, the crux of the matter is that you cannot dole out advice, the same advice, left right and centre, without being careful of not causing problems.

Victoria is a behaviourist who is a bit controversial, (I feel she's actually got better, just wish she'd drop the dominance talk, but she's great for showing check chains are not good and for shooting straight from the hip) but i suspect she assesses whether or not a dog can take noise aversion. The bulldog was not bothered - however other more sensitive dogs MIGHT be. I don't mean to be mean, :P but there is a certain responsibility that comes with posting advice on here. It's best to give advice that cannot do harm, bearing in mind we cannot see owner/dog/situation.

It is a fact that some dogs are terribly upset by sudden unexpected noises, and you have to bear that in mind.

Lindsay
x

Someone I knew rescued a cat.  The only problem they had with this cat was if it heard keys it would almost climb the walls in fright.  Probably somewhere in it's past someone had used shaking or throwing keys to change a behaviour but consequently the cat learnt to fear the keys.  When we used to go to visit these people (usually as a group), at the end of the evening when people were getting up to go and of course picking up their keys, the poor cat would be racing around trying to find somewhere to hide :(

I read in a number of places that the breed I have should be scolded more in sorrow than in anger.  I didn't really understand what that meant until I got her. Some dogs just do not respond well to negative affects.

Unbeleivable moonmaiden you have made 5550 posts on here, a free interent posting chatroom board and Victoria Stilwell  is a highly paid star proibably half your age,

Mm, doesn't that just show 2 things? 1. Moonmaiden is happy to give out sensible advice without being paid mega bucks for it or being seen on telly -she does it to HELP. 2. She will obviously have a LOT more experience than VS........

The ones we watch on tv are the ones with a marketable gimmick in the main.

I could tell you loads of people who have 'made it' but then it depends entirely on what your idea and meaning of 'made it' IS.

I reckon most of the BEST behaviuorists and trainers out there are in fact interested in the dogs, and not interested in fame, and if not wanting to be famous = 'failure' ... well what can i say!

Catch up? With Victorias methods..... nono i think y ou are mistaken, you mean go back in time, she is after all only a choke chain away from dear old Barbara!

Em

"Victoria has success with every dog she "treats""

Well, certainly wrt the current television show, that is PURELY because she DOESNT take on the ones she thinks she wont be able to train.

Thats not an assumption on my part, that IS a fact. I know several people who applied and were turned down with some very silly excuses 'we dont go up north'.... yet first series treat a dog in leeds.... etc etc

Id be astounded to meet a dog trainer who had NEVER EVER failed!

Be a bit like meeting God there i reckon!

Em

Em, whatever time do you go to sleep? :P

Lindsay
x

Far FAR too late and ive had 2 hours sleep and got up at 8 to reset my sleep pattern cos its getting silly!

Em

:P

Lindsay
x

Perhaps curlynutter and ruth are trolls,perhaps they are not?? This pack mentality and ganging up  on people is really starting to make my stomach turn :( It seems some people are only out to make fools of people they dont agree with,i know,i've got a couple of banchee's from here on my back who delight in doing just that,no ryhme or reason they just enjoy doing it i suppose

Has anyone ever asked themselves why CD attracts so MANY disgruntled ex-members and 'trolls'?

I belong to a fair few dog websites,a couple are as big as this one and one is bigger,and i cant say i have ever seen any trolls post on any of them,lettalone every day like on here! I have lost count of how many new members leave in disgust :( The thing is,it is the same group that is responsible for the aforementioned posts,they seem to be on here 24/7. One will start,then the other one's not far behind and on it goes,they give eachother the confidence and ego to keep prodding until they break whomever their 'victim' happens to be.

This post isnt about who gave what info or about Victoria,it is about the same darn thing happening all of the time! Posting something like LMAO after someone elses post is a blatant attempt at trying to make them look the fool,and is really cruel IMO,and it seems the more people who are having a go,the more join in and this is when one gets the impression of cliqueyness.

How many times do different people have to bring up the words 'clique' 'ganging up' etc before it finally sinks in?

Imagine if you(collective) joined a new board,you gave advice that no-one agreed with,they then set upon you like a pack of wolves and tried their best to ridicule and discredit you?What a horrible feeling that would be :(

Fair enough if someone posts a piece of stupid advice or something you didnt agree with then tell them,but what is the point of a whole group coming down on them,one after the other and just not quitting?
It reminds me of school when there was a girl that you didnt like and you may have teased her a bit,but then you get the back up of your friends,this makes you feel more powerful and important and go at her harder and harder! It seems like the same thing happens here,no-one can deny that when they are having a debate with someone then a couple of others join your team that it doesnt make you feel important,even a touch smug and it gives you the fuel to keep on going at the poor sod who's in the firing line!

I speak from experience,coz it happens to me here on the feeding board,it's always the same 4 or 5 people who try and discredit everything i say,i really dont think it matters if they even believe what they are saying or not,as long as it's the opposite view to me. If i didnt have such a thick skin and if i wasnt so stubborn in the fact that i wont give the  handful of people the satisfaction of driving me off or bait me into breaking the TOS i wouldnt be here either,i'm getting much better at ignoring them and realising what their motives are and they just arent worth the trouble ;)

OK rant over :o

they seem to be on here 24/7

+ 365

they seem to be on here 24/7

+ 365

Jut like you them

Imagine if you(collective) joined a new board,

They (not neccesarily all of those from here) did try joining a new site just before Xmas and into new year,and trying their gang mentailty their, many of them even spent New Years eve sitting at their PCs and posting,

The moderator, or Admin, on that site transfered them ALL to a forum on the site suited to them and instead of maintaining member status they all gained one of three levels called crank posters, that stopped them, some even  got a hillarious crank avitar, it really worked with the gangs, they looked complete fools and not surprisingly they seem to have left and the site has hassle free, non arrogant or dogmatic posts.

Sorry Ruth i do not understand your above post at all

Its a new dog info site Hailey, its been link referenced here recently many time. Gangs of people whose writings are similar to those here tried to block it and make non intellectual postings just befre the Xmas period. When you register you are a member, or go to advanced member etc same as most other places but when the gangs came on the site at Xmas and attempted to disurupt the general level of postings they al got onto the 'crank' list instead of the member list and werte transfred to a forum for silly postings, it was soooooo funny.

>they seem to be on here 24/7

Love to be able to respond but unlike a lot of the time where I dabble on this board whilst I work from this computer, (until 2am last night) today is one where I have to work elsewhere (9am)

Backer laters ;)

Oh dear, Ruth Youth, you are sounding rather a lot like our resident troll Dennis, we are almost fond of him now :D
Hailey, once he gets excited, you never understand as he doesn't make sense :P

ROFLMAO Lyndsay :D

LOL Must fly as I have dogs to trainGolly gosh some of us actually do train dogs :)

Oh how fantastic, I'm SO glad I missed most of this thread and haven't had to waste countless hours defending something I said earlier.

Yes, Ruth_Youth does sound like Dennis, who also sounds like the number of other people who have been posting the link to another forum which can boast a total of about 3 members.  Perhaps it's just all Dennis.

But I don't think Curlynutters is Dennis. 

Curlynutter, you watched a TV programme, then you came online and gave exactly, EXACTLY the same advice to two posters with DIFFERENT problems to those shown on the TV programme.  These two posters had DIFFERENT dogs, DIFFERENT breeds of dogs, DIFFERENT aged dogs to those shown on TV. 

The whole issue about Victoria Stillwell and whether or not she is a good behaviourist is a SEPARATE ISSUE.

The fact remains that in giving your parrot-fashion advice, you have not taken into account breed differences, age differences, familial/owner differences, difference in the problem experienced, and temperament differences between dogs. 

The dog in the TV programme was a confident (in the house) adult male bulldog and the problem was largely humping.  In this instance we are dealing with a 4 month old puggle puppy nipping.  At 4 months old, temperament and personality are still developing and can be damaged forever if people go around smashing saucepan lids together.

NO TWO behaviour programmes for NO TWO dogs would EVER be EXACTLY alike, even if they had the same issue, because the behaviour modification programme is designed to suit the individual dog.  Therefore, to come on here and give people this kind of parroted advice is tantamount to dangerous and I can't believe you have the audacity to come back here and try to defend yourself.

You wouldn't watch Casualty and then try to prescribe a medication to a cancer sufferer, so don't presume to know everything about dog behaviour from watching a few tv shows.

>You wouldn't watch Casualty and then try to prescribe a medication to a cancer sufferer, so don't presume to know everything about dog behaviour from watching a few tv shows.

You've got it in a nutshell there, Onetwothree!

You see we could all watch a television programme, absorb the information and then regurgitate it, undigested, so to speak. But unless you actually have some experience of what you say then the advice tends to come across as spurious even if the intentions were good. It's not compulsory to have opinions on subjects you don't know about - in my case that's plenty! - and nobody is ever going to get slated for keeping schtum especially if the alternative is making a bit of a silly billy of yerself.

I think with any dog you have to see the dog to give out advice for a problem.

The banging saucpans may work with one of mine, 1 would not take any notice & the other would wet himself in fright!

A 4 month old pup would still be biting quite a bit imo & it does hurt, but does not make it agressive :-(

My pups still like to bite my 8yr old son as he squeals & flaps his arms around - so we just keep them apart unless I am able to supervise fully.

I have not seen the tv prog yet - must watch it!

What have I missed?  When did VC become rich and famous?  I didnt realise she was a celebrity?  When did this happen.  I must go and buy this weeks Heat and catch up.  I am in the opinion that VC is behind not ahead in training methods - quiteb the oppisite, maybe I will be corrected when we see written evidence that she is qualified not glorified.

Just on an other note curlynutter, dennis who ever you are - are you insured to be giving oput such advice from your experience?  If not you should be careful and consider that if someone takes your advice and it backfires, YOU could end up with a legal case on your hands and a hefty fine.

I will be corrected when we see written evidence that she is qualified

Qualifications? In what, there are NO recognised qualifications for anything to work in dog training or behaviour,except any individual can accept anything purely on a personal basis. Maybe you would like to name just one qualification which is a recognised working qualification cause you lost me completely.

YOU could end up with a legal case on your hands and a hefty fine.

Do you mean a civil court case? On what grounds? Because if you do mean a civil court then you are wrong because a civil court cannot fine anyone to the sort of situation you seem (and it is unclear) to be refering (I assume you mean if someone follows advice and things don't work out in some way), can you just give some example of what you mean?

Please be carefull in what you say as some naive maybe new pet owner might think there is some kind of formal qualification for a dog trainer or behaviourst, there is not.

Maybe it would help, simply for clarity, if you can suggest what, for example, qualifies Roger Mugford? he calls himself a behaviourist I beleive.