I posted a couple of weeks ago about my 5 year old GSD with malabsorption problems.  He has been losing weight over a period of time which is why we took him.  Foggy has been to the vet and had the necessary blood tests, TLI, stool and urine samples etc. and we have been told that he has a malabsorption problem.  The vet advised us to change his food from Naturediet to Royal Canin Sensitivity Control.  I was reluctant to do this as he has never got on very well with dry kibble.   In the past we have tried Hills, Burns, Wafcol etc without too much success.  Then we found Naturediet and everything settled down with upset tummies etc.

Since feeding him the Royal Canin he now has the runs half of the time.  Our main aim is for him to gain weight but he's not going to do this if he is having every other poo as diarrhoea.  I phoned our vet to explain what is happening, as I feel it is the food, and now he's saying if he has diarrhoea they may have to do a biopsy on his intestine.  I really don't want this.  We didn't take him to the vet originally with diarrhoea, we took him for his weight loss, this latter problem seems to occur now he is off the Naturediet.

I really don't know what to do.  This past day I have fed him white fish and potatoes to try and settle him down.  I want to do the best for Foggy and don't want to keep chopping and changing his food.  I know Naturediet do a fish menu but when I asked my vet if I could keep him on Naturediet he said he wasn't getting enough goodness from it.

Foggy has hip dysplasia but this aside, he is a healthy dog.  I would be grateful of your views/advice as I really feel I've gone full circle regarding his feeding.

Many thanks.  June

Personally, I'd give him the food that agreed with him the best ;)  he won't be absorbing enough from a food which is shooting through as diarrhoea ;)    What are the signs of his illness besides diarrhoea?

I've tried to look at the actual ingredients in Royal Canin Sensitivity Control, but they don't appear to be listed anywhere on the net :(  so can't comment on them.   There are a number of reasons for malabsorbtion, usually some form of damage or disease of part of the gut.  Can the vet be more specific re the type of malabsorbtion?  this can be a good clue as to what's causing it.  In your position I would also request a blood test for Coeliac disease (gluten enteropathy) and for allergy to common foods, eg wheat, milk, eggs, meats etc.   Coeliac disease doesn't always show up in the blood but can be diagnosed through diet and biopsy (if they know where to biopsy ;) )   Pancreatic insufficiency can also cause malabsorbtion, there are other posters here who can tell you more about this and there are several threads ;)

If the gut has been 'damaged' by something ( eg. gastroenteritis, gluten intolerance, allergy ) then it can take a number of weeks/months to recover.  A good guide to whether the gut is recoveriing is firming up and then stopping of diarrhoea and then gradual increase of weight.  The weight gain can be slow at first and extra food may need to be given, but not enough to cause more diarrhoea ;) 

Just for your information, here's the link to the COELIAC SOCIETY click on medical information to learn more about it.  Your dog may not have this but it will help you to understand how digestion can be affected by foods ;) ;)

Hope this helps some

Thanks for your reply. Foggy's liver and kidney function is fine and the vet has also ruled out EPI.  His only symptoms are weight loss, the diarrohea has, I believe, been due to the change in food, though according to our vet they give sensitivity control to dogs that have diarrohea and it stops it.  Though doesn't seem to be happening in our case.  Foggy has been on anti-biotics in case there was an overgrowth of bacteria in the gut.  The main ingredients of Royal Canin is white fish (capolin) and tapioca and I think the protein is about 24%.  I will check out the website you gave me now.  Many thanks - June

Hi June,

I agree to an extent with Dill on this - in a poorly dog, diet plays a huge part in improving but also potentially worsening several conditions.   Of course as your dog has had the TLI test then the possibility of EPI has already been addressed.  I've just had a quick look back at your previous posts and see that Foggy was put on B12 injections at the same time as the recommendation to come off ND (although I couldn't understand then or now why his diet was changed at the same time )

In any event personally I would now go straight to biopsy - you may have the choice of biopsies harvested by endoscopy or open surgery but the larger the dog the further the endoscope has to go which may mean open is your only option.  In any event biopsies taken by endoscopy are not full thickness as opposed to those done by open procedure and also done thus they can be taken at 1 or 2 cm intervals throughout the entire GI tract.  I know it sounds drastic - and it is drastic - but not so dangerous as several diseases which can be diagnosed (better still ruled out) by having the procedure done.  That way instead of playing around with multiple food options all or any of which could be making things much worse you have a significantly higher chance of an accurate diagnosis, immediate specific treatment, hence better prognosis.

It is a personal judgement call and one which you need to discuss further with your vet.

Very best wishes, Teri

Frankly, I would put him back on ND if it were up to me. RC is prescription only isn't it? and I know only too well how vets insist what they prescribe is the best when clearly it isn't. Vets can get it wrong when it comes to food, mine do ;) They don't agree with Maddie eating raw a chicken diet but its working for her and none of the food they suggested ever did. Having EPI and food intolerances I know how difficult it is to put weight on a dog thats a large breed and hasn't stopped growing yet so she out grows any weight and its a never ending battle. One of my others is fed on ND and as long as she gets the right amount she is doing fine.
I agree with Teri, don't know why they changed it.
Hope you get things sorted for Foggy - lovely name btw

Dee

"personally I would now go straight to biopsy"

I lost an old boy to a still not specifically diagnosed malabsorption syndrome. He was 12 when it began but I still wish I gone straight for biopsy.

So sorry to hear you lost your dog for this reason.  I lost my last GSD to cancer and there are many things I know now that I didn't know at the time.  Still beat myself up over it.  Want to do what's right for him so a biopsy seems inevitable but hopefully will be able to address the issue properly.
Regards - June

Thank you all for your replies.  I agree with you Teri, and Dill, and will put him back on Naturediet for the time being.  I am now looking down the route of biopsy, something which I admit I am not very keen on doing as no doubt a general anaesthetic is involved, but this is something I need to get to the root of.

Incidentally, as an aside,  on our walk this afternoon, I met a woman walking in the woods holding a carrier bag.  She made a fuss of Foggy and Mia and as I called them to walk on they were both very interested in the carrier bag.  I said "you must have something very interesting in there" to which she replied "yes, they're frankfurters, I put them down for the birds".  I know her main priority is feeding the wildlife but my main priority is making sure my girl and boy don't snaffle c**p from the undergrowth!  No wonder he gets the runs :rolleyes:

Will keep you posted. Regards. June

Hi again June,

I know a GA is something we try to avoid where possible for our pets (and selves come to that) but, without wanting to sound like I'm bullying you, I really do hope that you go down the route of biopsy and soon.   Remember that biopsies are required for several conditions - human nature being what it is, we often immediately think *cancer* and while it is a possibility it is not actually the most likely outcome for the symptoms you describe with Foggy ;)

Dogs can be fine on a diet (regardless of fair/average/high quality, whether complete, home cooked or raw etc) for a very short while right through to many years and because of one or more of various internal problems suddenly every ingredient in that diet as well as ingredient in every treat, table scrap etc given over the years can become something which the digestive process cannot tolerate.   (Even in a different form, as in dry complete chicken to fresh/raw chicken for eg)

When a dog is weak or been poorly for some time it naturally causes us to be even more cautious of an invasive procedure but your vet will do special pre-anaesthetic tests to ensure that Foggy is a safe candidate.  The trouble with holding back in the hope that things improve and we get "just a little more weight on" etc., is there's a real risk of waiting until the animal has become a high risk candidate for a surgical procedure or potentially causing a possible internal problem to have worsened to the extent that treatment is much more difficult and success impaired.

I really hope and pray that all is well for Foggy and you - I know it's a very difficult time.
God bless, Teri x

Thank you for your best wishes Teri, and I know you're right.  I'll keep you updated if you don't mind.
Hooray for Champdogs, I'd drive myself mad otherwise.

Just to add my Lab Min who had severe colitis was stabilised by feeding ND lite. She was very under weight and this was the only food that we found helped her condition :) She regained her weight and condition and although it didn't cure it totally, I would say she was 95% better :)

I would stick with the ND if I were you ;)

Just wanted to wish you luck and hoping you get some answers soon which help you to get your dog well :)

Regards
Dill

Hi again Chalkley,

Any news or decisions reached?  Hope all's OK.

Regards, Teri :)

Chalkley, I just wanted to say - this is the kind of thing you should consider getting a second opinion for.  Try to find a practice which specialises in intestinal problems and take him for a 2nd opinion there.

Hi - how's Foggy getting on these days?  Any progress / news?

Regards Teri :)

Hi again,

see your back on the forum :)  How are things with Foggy now?

Very, very, late coming into this thread, and hoping that your GSD did not need a biopsy after all.

But just wanted to add that my mother had a GSD with a very tempremental tummy and her vet advised her to use Vitalin (the dry food that looks like rabbit food) she used to soak it, and he always was solid from that moment on.

Thanks for your reply Lyssa.  I had a GSD, many years ago, that we used to feed on Vitalin on the recommendation of our vet at the time. 

Foggy went to the vet on Wednesday of this week for a weigh-in and after being fed for three weeks on Chappie he has gained 2lb in weight, stools nicely formed etc.

He is to be weighed again in four weeks, though Chappie would not be my first choice of food to give him the vet has advised that if it works for him, keep him on it.

Kind regards. June.

Great news! :-)  I agree stick to the food that keeps him solid, runny tummy's are prone with GSD's so once you find thee food, don't change it.  Here's to him continuing with the weight gain. :-)