I HAVE JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT THE HORRIFIC TESTING ON ANIMALS THAT GOES ON WITHIN THE PET FOOD INDUSTRY.  I HAVE TRIED TO FIND OUT IF JWB IS TESTED ON ANIMALS. TO NO AVAIL. I HAVE EMAILED THEM NO REPLY AS YET.  I CHANGED MY DOGS TO JWB AS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT ALL THE ADDITIVES IN THE OTHER BRANDS. THEY ARE ALL DOING REALLY WELL. SO WORRIED THOUGH THAT I WILL HAVE TO CHANGE THEM AGAIN. I REFUSE TO SUPPORT THIS BABARIC PRACTICE. CAN ANYBODY HELP

omg - i hope not ive just switched my puppy onto that!

What is the horrific testing?

JWB is tested every day on animals, my dog being one of them.  However, if you have some real information that you think we should know about perhaps you would like to let us know where you got the information from

I can't imagine that the government would allow "horrific testing."  They care.  :-)

Here is a list of the manufacturers that have ben put on the BUAV list http://www.ukpets.co.uk/?section=Home&sub=News&method=fetch&item=703  Leander International make the Arden Grange range of foods.

Wasn't sure where to find the list on BUAV's oown site, only foudn the article that shows the companies that do test and Pedigree who own JWB are among them.  http://www.buav.org/resources/documents/PetFood.pdf

I thought JWB was owned by Royal Canin?

Both are owned by pedigree.  Wehn they bought RC they ahd to sell off one of theri products, so they sold off Advance (shame as it was the only one of theres that agrees with my dogs).

Well you learn something new every day!! LOL.  It makes all the bitching last year about stakes classes and sponsors even more rediculous then doesn't it ;)

Sorry, I believed JWB was owned by Mars??  Not Pedigree....

Of course, I could be wrong with that.

Sorry, I believed JWB was owned by Mars??  Not Pedigree....

Pedigree in its turn is owned by Mars. :D

Just out of interest, what other pet foods does Mars own?

Since no one answered that, I checked out the Mars website.  Here it is:

http://www.mars.co.uk/What_do_we_do&63/Petcare.asp

As you can see from this, the only dog foods they list here are Pedigree and Cesar (and possibly Winergy - if that's a dog food, I've never heard of it?).  JWB and RC are not listed.  Not saying they're not owned by Mars, but they're not listed here on the Mars website.

just so there no dout about it extract from  European commission on take over/ mergers BRUSSELS - Feb 15/02 - STAT -- The European Commission gave conditional regulatory approval to sale of the French petfood company Royal Canin SA. to Masterfoods Holding, a French subsidiary of Mars Inc. of the United States.

Mars has undertaken to divest for the whole of Europe its businesses connected to five of the merged group's petfood brands, i.e. Advance, Premium, Royal Chien, Playdog and Brekkies, together with two major manufacturing plants in La Chappelle and Moulin, respectively in the centre (Loir-et-Cher) and south-east of France, as well as all other assets relating to the divested business. The merger cannot be implemented before the conditions have been fulfilled.

Mars is a privately-owned manufacturer of snack foods, ice cream, pet foods and various other products, with headquarters in Virginia (US). Masterfoods Holding is a wholly-owned French subsidiary created in 2000. Mars's pet foods brands include Pedigree, Advance, Cesar, Whiskas and Sheba, which are sold worldwide, and national/regional brands such as Canigou and Brekkies.

Royal Canin is a leading supplier of dry prepared pet food products headquartered in France and listed on the Paris stock exchange. Royal Canin has developed its branded business primarily through sales in specialist outlets throughout the European Union and royal canin owns the trade name Jwb also if you click
on the trade marks icon on the mars site you will find Masterfoods-ie RC AND JWB

Hello,

I worked for Mars when they took over Royal Canin, so I KNOW they own them even if they don't shout about them being under the same umbrella :) .

Also, if you ring the JWB helpline you get the 'Royal Canin/JWB helpline" ... and if your query is complex enough you go through to a Masterfoods representative (like I did yesterday when I rung up to ask about the rumoured JWB recipe changes).

and what was the answer?

Hi

Apparently they're not planning any 'major' recipe changes and aren't planning selling it to supermarkets. I asked specifically about using products that wouldn't be obvious from the ingredients (e.g. using chicken fat in a lamb and rice recipe) and that came back with a definite no as they market it as hypoallergenic.

If anyone hears anything different then please let me know (I feed JWB and want to keep on top of what they are doing) ... I'm more than happy to badger them some more if I hear anything differently :).

I think  you have to consider how likely "horrific" testing is by considering how useful it might be as compared to the cost of running very experience labaratories where such things might be carried out.  As Cheryl says "testing" by consumer satisfaction goes on continually as might some simple blood, stool and skin testing.  I can't image what "horrific" testing might tell you over and above what that does, can you?
Secondly you need to consider the "agencies" involved in this.  All animal testing is licenced and has to be passed by an ethics committee, this is run by government departments appointed to act on our behalves with no other alterior motives.  The BUAV dispite their adoption of "British" in their title are appointed by nobody but themselves.  The do appear to have some "issues" about large businesses and all you have to do to not appear on their list of approved companies is refuse to let their representatives troups through your premises

Id rather support The Buav Campaign than the exploitation of animals by major companies  Still it's a free world so  the question is, support no testing or turn a blind eye in the belief that it doesn't happen. We are all free to choose   - difficult one -Jo     

I haven't had a chance to read the document that Brainless posted yet.

I don't like the idea of testing on animals but I know it goes on in this country for various reasons.  From what I understand there are guidelines and controls that laboratories have to adhere to in this country unlike other countries.  I think what people should take on board is that at some point everything regarding food is or has been tested on animals and while people demand safer this and that foods will continue to be tested on animals.  If a company says it doesn't test its food on animals it doesn't mean that the ingredients and chemicals in those foods haven't been tested on animals before it gets to the manufacturer.

If we completely rejected testing on animals in this country what would happen is that manufacturers would go to other countries to find out what they want to know.  This IMO would be worse because at least we do have some control over what is tested and how it is tested.

<it doesn't mean that the ingredients and chemicals in those foods haven't been tested on animals before it gets to the manufacturer.> wrong, in order to be approved those compainies had to prove that thier supply chain was clean has well, -jo

That's interesting then.  I stand corrected

How do they know that the ingredients such as the preservatives are safe to use?

What's the "5 year rolling rule?"

Historical data  

Doesn't this mean that companies can use the "5 year rolling rule" to skirt around the testing on animals issue?

Re: the sacred BUAV list, how did Trophy Pet food get on that list, their franchisees openly sell the likes of IAMS, and yes with the knowledge of the franchisor. For a short period I respected BUAV, bit hteir list doesn't mean anything to me. as far as I'm concerned the approved companies have paid 'lip service' to get on it.

well i still dont know the answer to my original question. seems it might not have an answer. thanks anyway for your comments

Its the company thats approved not the individual franchisee as they are private operaters my trophy man
only sells trophy. cant see your point pets at home sell Buav approved and non approved foods -its up to the person whos buying to ensure that  they buy a food manufactored by  a buav approved company this is pointed out on the Buav web site  do you work for Oscars  or some other company thats not on the list? -jo

Apologies to little jayne for going off thread a little.  Jo, I don't work for a pet food company,  I work in consumer research, my beef with the BUAV list is that I cannot believe that there is any company that can truly answer yes to all the questions asked on their very long questionnaire. I don't want to knock Trophy (they are on paper one of the better pet food manufacturers, and I used them until recently) but, how can franchisees (who have not individually signed up as separate entities) be allowed to display the BUAV signs on their vehicles when they are promoting/selling IAMS, Pedigree etc.  
So far as I know Pets at Home aren't using the BUAV list as a sales point, so, yes let them sell anything.

and all you have to do to not appear on their list of approved companies is refuse to let their representatives troups through your premises

I wonder what these companies who refuse this simple thing have got to hide

I don't think it is a simple thing to allow the public to trapse through a food production line these days when quality and hygiene control is so tightly governed.  If it was my factory I certainly wouldn't want to bother making the necessary arrangements with them considering how little value a self appointed group's endorsement is to the majority of people.

yea but who want to buy a dog food youd make give your attitude to nutrition :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Don't worry, I will continue to leave it to the experts :)

I think your are confusing two issues here Trophy pet food is produced
Under the guideline requested by the Buav and is such approved .this is an extract from the Buav  web site Trophy Pet Foods
Brands: Trophy Pet Food
Dog, cat and small mammal foods (including for rats, mice, gerbils, hamsters, rabbits and guinea pigs). Available through mail order; through their nationwide network of Trophy franchises who offer a local free home delivery service (Please note: that some franchisees do sell other brands but only the Trophy Pet Food brand is BUAV approved as 'not animal tested'.) The Trophy vans do not carry any logos other than Trophy and the Buav so Trophy themselves only link their own brand With the Buav and this as you can see is not an issue . The second point is that it is not Trophy who sell other brands but the individual business people who own their own franchised business. AS I said before in my own experiences the chap who owns Trophy in my area only sells Trophy-Jo        

I dont have a great deal of faith in the Buav list anymore,it's great about the animal testing and all,but some of the ingredients of the pet foods on their list leave alot to be desired!

Hailey I am not sure why you do not have faith in the BUAV list any more?

Is it because you believe their claims are spurious?  If so that is a serious allegation which would undermine their credibility.  The list exists to satisfy those people who prefer to purchase items from suppliers/manufacturers who do not test on animals, that is their sole criteria.

Whether or not you agree with the CONTENT of those foods re ingredients, is an entirely different matter.

Ingredients are not a part of the criteria that they claim to meet.

If you are unhappy with the ingredients then the answer is simple, do not purchase from suppliers/manufacturers who include ingredients that you believe to be less than adequate, BUAV listed or not.

lost me on that one Hailey, perhaps you should start a new post on why you should boycott the Buav
list on health grounds -Jo 

I dont have a great deal of faith in the Buav list anymore,it's great about the animal testing and all,but some of the ingredients of the pet foods on their list leave alot to be desired!

I don't think it is supposed to be about the quality of the food,b ut teh ethics of the manufacturing process.

Is it because you believe their claims are spurious?  If so that is a serious allegation which would undermine their credibility.

How on earth did you get that out of my post,i didnt say anything about them being legit or not

I was just under the impression that they are for ethical food aswell,wrongly assumed obviously!

What is "unethical" about their food?

I don't think it is supposed to be about the quality of the food,b ut teh ethics of the manufacturing process.

Yeah,i got ethics and quality food mixed up,obviously they dont go hand in hand :(

just for the record. i have had a reply from jwb about the testing on animals. the only testing they do is quality control. using their emploees pets to see if they like the taste etc.  so my question has been answered now thank you so much for all your coments makes really interesting reading. food for thought!!

And that's a perfectly acceptable form of 'animal testing'! :)

And that's a perfectly acceptable form of 'animal testing'!

Yep definately! And should be the only form! No need for vivisection or to cut them open to see how their food affects their kidney;s or liver,no need to de-bark dogs so their complaining doesnt annoy the 'researchers' too much.

I tell you,anyone who can inflict even an ounce of pain on these trusting animals for NO logical reason deserves the exact same done to themselves

now if Jwb can get all the other companies in the marrs group to do the same the world will be a better place -JO