ok... we work all our dogs in agility, obedience and flyball.     Just a quick question... what is the point in breed showing???? watching it at crufts last year most the dogs looked like they were about to faLL ASLEAP.

looking forward to your replies...

LOL the dogs are very far from about to fall asleep. They have to be bright and alert and showing their socks off to attract the attention of the judges who are examing their construction and movement to see how closely they fit the standard and therefore they should then be built correctly to carry out their original function as a breed. I limp lettuce doesn't look half as appealing as a bright fresh chrisp one.
Turn it on its head whats the point of Agility Obedience or Flyball is it really work or are you playing with your dogs ?

In it's original and main form it is the evaluation of future breeding stock, and an arena for breeders to compare their and their peers efforts, choose future mates for their dogs to ensure the breed survives true to the breed standard.

Without some kind of forum for breeders to do this the dogs would eventually degenerate into mongrels with no distinct breeds, especially with many breeds original functions being outdated or even ilegal. 

In some popular breeds that are exploited by puppy farmers and those breeding casually this process can be seen at work where some of them barely resemble their breed at all.

The other side of showing is the human enjoyment of competition, socialising with like minded people etc etc.

Unlike the Dog sports the actual process of showing can be learnt by most people and dogs, so even those who aren't great trainers can at least present the dog in the ring and teach it to trot around a ring, some of course can do a lot better than that, and have such a raport with their animal that it looks and fels and projects itself  so it looks a million dollars.  Many people having gained confidence in this basic area of training are enboldened to try something more taxing for them and their dog.

Those breeds that still have a job to do can ahve their working abilities tested, but they should still look like their breed.

There is a big split between workign ans show lines in many breeds, this is not possible in soem countries where dogs cannot gain either show or working titles without merit in the other discipline.

My dog doesn't do agility or flyball or shows.  She is very bright and needs stimulation in the way of training.  The thought of showing my dog makes me laugh, they have to be trained to a high level of obedience I would imagine, certainly not bouncing around like my dog.  One thing I will say is that when I take her to training school she loves it and the hour and half mental stimulation tires her out far more than any 3 walk will.

I am as yet to be transformed

Into what pray???

You don't show then

TRansformed from what may i ask....Lordy lordy if only my girl would fall asleep on her bench at crufts.. instead of being sat there with a look on her face..saying please stroke me....And oh mum that champion in the next ring is of good sound breeding and is of breed standard...we can both improve on our breed if you can spare the time for us to frolick together.....

Lol Polly. I know the feeling, my boy is always suggesting possible combinations that might improve the breed!! :-D

To each his own, OP - although I love watching obedience and flyball etc, I haven't the energy myself to train my dogs - and although there are exceptions, I would say Cavaliers weren't the ideal breed for those disciplines anyway. But they do love having a fuss made of them in the ring, leaping up and down to get my attention and wagging furiously. And of course any sort of competition where they constantly meet strange dogs is excellent socialisation. :-)

Asleap is spelt....ASLEEP

ok... we work all our dogs in agility, obedience and flyball.     Just a quick question... what is the point in breed showing???? watching it at crufts last year most the dogs looked like they were about to faLL ASLEAP.

Simple answer....BECAUSE BOTH MY DOGS AND MYSELF ENJOY IT!!!!! There doesn't need to be any more reasons.The breed I own will never excel or in many cases complete at all in obedince or flyball as they are an independant hound breed so its either showing or maybe I should just leave them at home?
AS FOR BEING BORED....I don't think so!!!As soon as the pre-show routine starts you'd think my lot were high on drugs!And as soon as we pull onto a show ground its pandemonium in the boot of my car!
You speak as a person whos never been to a show..and it shows:rolleyes:.
Archer...whos dogs are most p****d off because they are out of the ring till March!

Guys, Guys....please don't feed the trolls. BCCRazy is just another banned member trying to stir up trouble, so please don't rise to it :rolleyes:

there were a couple of them on last night just a couple of pillocks who in my opinion should have been ....drowned at birth....

now im sorry but that was below the belt "should have been drowned at birth" thats an awful thing to say - i know these people are trolls - but there really is no need to say that

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! I dont believe it sarah smith your defending them by having a go at me.....
sorry dont make any apologies for this one maybe a bit strong but i was on line last night with this loser and think  the world would be a better place without them .

Star, i am not having a go at you i assure you - i just think what you said was a bit strong - i am not excusing this persons behavoiur at all - there obviously angry at something or somebody.

Yep worth an answer the question for other readers benefit, as it is a valid one, but no need to get into any more than that, especially if someone is trying to get a rise out of other peoples hobbies

Typical reaction by an agility/obedience person, and a BC one at that!!

Just remember that it's obedience than requires the dog to act like a robot, with points being docked for poor placement etc etc!!

In the show ring, as well as judging a dog in comparison with its breed standard, the judge should be looking for a confident dog, and therefore one that has showmanship.  How is this possible with a dog that looks half asleep?!!

After all, anyone watching Crufts on the TV only ever remembers the BIS winner, not the obedience, agility, flyball etc!  Just remember that its thanks to breed showing that the other disciplines emerged, having been given an audience at Crufts!

Live and let live.

It is sad that people in the various canine disciplines have so little understanding (and in some cases tolerance and appreciation) of what is involved in the others prefered activity.

Due to how huge these various activities are in the UK you don't get them all under one roof, as mosat have a hard time getting affordable and available venues for just one.

This is the only side of things that I think is better in the USA.  Due to the huge distances people travel, especially to Specialties (shows for one particular breed).

This means that they organise the other disciplines at the same event as people stay for several days. 

Also because under the US system it is not that difficult to make up a Champion (a good dog will often be a champion before it is out of puppy) unless the owners have huge pots of money for pro handlers they will not campaign the dogs hard beyond their title, so many then go on to add various titles in Obedience and Agility, what have you. 

There are titles available for each step up the ladder giving people an incentive to try.  The standard may not be so high as in UK, but at least you have lots of people doing more with their dogs than they might do here, where they feel that it is not worth even trying against the collies.

In obedience dogs don't have to beat all comers to earn their classes they have to get qualifying marks, so they are trying to improve their performance, not necesarily beat everyone else, though the most competitive ones aim for High In Trial.

In breeds that are not easy to train because they simply don't have the mental make up that predisposes them to such a discipline, owners still have the satisfaction of training and reaching a worthwhile level.

I found it interesting that the winners of the finals of various comps in Agility in last weeks Dog World were all WSD or BC even the Mini category!

In my own breed Agility is very popular in the USA, and when the sport was first accepted by the AKC the top dog all breeds was an Elkhound bitch.  In this country I know of only one person working an Elkhound in Agility at the moment.

In Obedience how long do you think people with other breeds will be happy to spend their time and money knowing they have so little chance of placing, even if their marks put them in the top half of the class on the way beating many collies, eventualy they give up with their non collie, and either get one or give up obedience.

Ads77,  the reason no one remembers the flybal,obedience and agility winners is because theBBC show hardly any coverage of the other disoplins. and when they do they cock it up.....

Typical agility, obedience person and with collies at that???????????????   what are you trying to get at you stuck up breed show person..

As I said above:
"It is sad that people in the various canine disciplines have so little understanding (and in some cases tolerance and appreciation) of what is involved in the others prefered activity."

Hang on a minute - all the OP asked was what's the point in showing? I do neither agility, flyball or obedience but I did used to show my dogs. The whole reason I stopped was because of the pompous old twats like you lot who BANG were straight in there to accuse NOT protect.

So, if prancing around the ring with your amazingly bred dogs :rolleyes: has done it for you then why not try something new?

Or are you all too afraid to leave your computer screens and do so?

As you can see my answer to that post, you might notice that I addressed my original comment regards tolerance and appreciation  to someone that didn't understand the performance side, but the one I put my paragraph in quotes to actually proved my point that both sides sadly do not understand the others perspective.

As for myself without having transport of my own I can just about do breed shows.  If I had the sight and fitness I would love to do Agility. 

I don't have the concentration for Obedience or the balnce to not tread on my dogs toes. Got very confused with left and right when I have had a go at competition at the lowest levels :D  Just not for me, though I love to watch a good handler.

Quite like the idea of Canine Frestyle and Heelwork to Music, but am devoid of rythm.

There should be no sides.  People not involved with dogs in any of these areas probably find them all rather silly.

Carbin65, I would have thought the whole reason you stopped showing was the lack of competition where you live! ;)

so you don't have you're own travel? - is that why you're always infront of the computer?

deleted

what th hell does that mean? - "deleted" - cos that makes sense doesn't it?

It means that the poster made a reply and then thought better of it, so deleted it.

Wondered how do you get the scaffolding to stay put in the North pole, and how tall are most of the buildings.

Yep pretty much in the winter especially.  I don't get a chance to go to more than a show a month, and after walking the dogs, beats the telly.  Not that fond of housework, so any excuse not to do it.  the dogs keep the feet warm

What are Grey Curly Tails?

Tails that curl and are grey

Am i missing something here? why is the person against showing so much?

Probably - they all are on here - they're missing a life!

Why are you on here then ?? :D

Daisy

laughing at you tossers

I actually don't see the point in Flyball, but we all have different tastes. :d  My dogs love going to dog shows as much and sometimes more than they do going to agility, water training etc. 

If you are new to the internet or forums you may not realise that there is a type of person who using the anonymity of the medium finds it fun to wind people up or deliberatly be controversial or rud to get a rise out of people.  Best ignored, but sometimes we can't help answering. 

Usually most people only do if by doing so it can show innocent readers what they are doing, or if an interesting point is raised that might be helpful or informative, or if the  posts have dangerous advice or inacurate information.

So you admit that obedience does knock the stuffing out of any dog with a personality?  BCs are easily brainwashed and are the 'best' example at highlighting the dog who is half asleep in the ring! If not, why do we have an ABC class in agility?

So the other breeds stand a chance.  one thing i will say is theres a certon who tells everyone her dog is a rough collie x gsd.....Rough Collie my ASS.   that thing is BC through n through

yeah right!!!! have you WATCHED it recently. have you heard of motivational training? you see more check chains in the show ring than in obedience

please ads you say live & let live then Slate obedience!!! i work exceptionally hard on my dogs training. they arent robots. you clearly know nothing about the sport

the main thing in obedience is for the dog & handler to be showing TEAMWORK & working in a natural happy manner.
in obedience these days you do not get robotic dogs.

not everybody just remebers the crufts BIS, yes the showing peeps & JP do, but all the Ob bods remeber there two winners. lets remeber its alot harder for ob people to get to  compete at crufts than it is for breed  dogs.

Don't you think it sad that all the dog activities are so fragmented thoug. 

I loved reading some really old reports from shows that a freind left me.  It was during the very early days of Obedience and the classes were held at the breed shows and lots of brd dogs competed.  I have a report from BAGSD of an Elkhound where it was obvious from the report that the dog and owner were complete novices having a go (I assume entries were taken on the day).

Crufts is one of the only times (there is Obedience Championship level at WKC and SKC shows) all the disciplines are together and because of the crownds etc, noen of them resally ever get a chance to see how the other half does it.

brainless i love judging other breeds in obedience. breeds that have done very well under me ,are, BSDs, corgis, great danes, Pry sheepdogs ,brdies, goldies ,labs, all sorts of Xs & i love watching the St poodles work. its a pity more breeds dont try it. My friend works her Malamute,shes lovely.

Do you think if it was like the US system of qualifying marks rather than just winning, that it would encourage more people to take part and take it further???

this year there are going to be able to earn awards for exellence by gaining points per class (for consistent places) & the dogs can get "letters" after their names, like the WT dogs do

Thought I would look up the definition of Obedience - here it is :-

*     the act of obeying; dutiful or submissive behavior with respect to another person
*     the trait of being willing to obey
*     behavior intended to please your parents; "their children were never very strong on obedience"; "he went to law school out of respect   for his father's wishes"

Now is it not surprising that the so-called "obedience" people are those who on this board are not prepared to obey Terms of Service????

Margot

to compete in obedience the dogs dont have to be obedient! theres alot of people in it that would like the name changed

sorry am i not obeying them how?

Don't think that was aimed at you but the person with a multiple personality playing games.

Though I thought this post was an interesting topic for debate.

its in reply to my post!!!!! lokis mum has aussies! ASDs aRE FAB AT "OBEDIENCE"  but theres no way they could be tagged a "obedient" breed under her list of criteria