Just wondering what age a bitch can be bred until? I am in the process of researching breeders and have found one that I really like the sound of, I then noticed that they bred a bitch at 8 years old...this just struck me as far too old...am I right in thinking that or is it perfectly normal?

Hi Goldilocks
The Kennel Club will allow registrations from bitches until the age of 8.  I have Ridgebacks and 2 of the 3 GB clubs I belong to stipulate 8 as the maximum age, 1 stipulates 7.  Bitches are individuals and what is fine for one can be inappropriate for another.
As a matter of interest, what breed are you looking at?

& I know of several bitches who have had litters well over 8 years old after the KC have given permission & they are"top"breeders & bitches that had had several litters before 8 years of age too

oh thanks, feel much better now, it just struck me as quite old, although you wouldnt know that the bitch was that age from the photo, she looks no older than 5 or so, it was just that I noticed her birthdate.
Ridgielover, it is golden retriever breeders that I am looking at.

Thanks for your help!

Thought it might be golden retrievers from your choice of name but have been wrong before!  Wishing you the best of luck in your search for your new addition.  Have you visiited the breeders yet? 

oh we are not up to that stage yet, still just researching!

Just a quick question about hip scores...what should they add up to, to be a good score?? (Im still quite new to this, we've only really had rescues before (and one golden from a not so great breeder, that we kind of stumbled across) so it is all very exciting to go into this with at least some knowledge of what to look for in a good breeder!

I am very confident though, that the breeders I have on my shortlist (shortlist?? We didnt put this much thought into finding our house!) are excellent, I have a feeling that I may be on a waiting list for quite some time!

many thank

It would depend on the breed average hip score (I think the breed average for goldies is 19, but I stand to be corrected). Then you want to aim for both parents being well under that average if at all possible, but preferably not higher.

Hi Goldilocks, I own two Goldens and I found them via the breed club which is a great place to look. The most common health problems with the breed are: Hip Dysplasia, Cataracts and Subartoic Stenosis which is a heart disease and all of these should have been tested for by a good breeder in their dam and chosen sire, aswell as generations back as I have learned that these health issues can skip one or several generations and then re occur later down the line. The breed average hip score is 19 (just incase you dont know how it works it could be 10/9 or 8/11 it wouldnt be 19/19 that would be a total score of 38) and the two amounts are one for each hip. I would look for a puppy though whose score is less than 19 though (just my opinion!). The eyes get a score of unaffected or affected. Also have a good think what you want your golden for, if its for showing, working, pet.... as there are breeders who breed specifically for these disiplines . Hope some of this helps you in your search......

I would check thought thzt they are actually Kennel Club registered as it is rare for the Kennel Club to give permission for an over age litter.

They would have to be kc registered to show wouldnt they? (is that a stupid question? of course they would, wouldnt they?) and they are doing very well with some of their bitches from what I have been researching.

Yes they would, and if they have been given permission to have a late litter then I suspect it is a very good bitch.

Not as rare as you would think Barbara & with one bitch it was her 6th litter & she was aged over 10 !!!!!!!! In the cases that I know of they are all from bitches that have had at least 4 previous litters & that the breeders had retained dogs from Yet the reason given were to preserve the bloodlines from the bitches !! This came from the owners of the bitches BTW & I saw three of the letters from the KC as well

Case of who you are I think

That doesn't really make sense.  I remeber hearing that the Border Collie bitch that won the group at Crufts one year had been refused permission, even though she had not been bred from much.  Are they just rubber stamping Vets letters now????

I can only think of one BC bitch that won the group at Crufts & she was shipped abroad shortly afterwards as her father is a CL carrier & no stud dog owner in the UK at that time would have allowed their dog to be used on her & as far as I am aware she's still in Australia Of course she coiuld now be CL tested & be be bred from to a CL clear dog

The breed I know about has very influential top breeders & they even bred from a bitch at 11 before the KC age ruling come in & that bitch had had at least 7 lutters by then :rolleyes:I don't think Joe Bloggs your average responsible breeder would get permission though

Bit confused by that post MM   SH CH Dykebar Future Glory passed away last year and wasn't shipped to Australia where do you get the info that  her sire was  a CL carrier. I think you have mixed her up with another Dykebar bitch
Edited to add she was RBIS

Ah the one that was shipped to Australian didn't win the group at crufts then they did ship the one whose father is a CL carrier to Australia tho I though that ir was the younger bitch that won the group in 1999 her niece She obviously didn't win the group but got BOB I forgot F Glory won the group & got Res BIS back in 1994 

Edited to add  F Glory had three litteres so why would they need another from her over 8 years of ahe ?

Yep she got Group 4 no idea about litter that was in Brainless' post although I could ask JR tomorrow if you like  ;)

Ah that is what confused me then :D & I am easily confused BTW I know there are several Beardie champions that have puppies well after the age of 8 since the KC rule came in quite how they were allowed I'll never know as one bitch had already had in excess of 30 puppies in the five litters she had before she was 8 :( & of course it's in the public domain via the BRS

Maybe they hadn't kept a pup or wanted to use a certain dog for a last litter?

They had puppies from every litter & puppies from the puppies They didn't even keep any puppies from the last litter & they were all sold abroad $ signs was the concensus in the breed at the time

Just as an aside do people actually charge more for a pup going abroad?  I have never done so, (can't see how one would justify it), and because of usually having to keep pup a bit longer and having to get documemts and extra vet visits (I do charge for the costs of these, but not the inconvenience) it actually is more trouble than letting them go to homes in the UK.

When mine have gone abroad charged normal price plus costs, which have all been written down by vets etc. for the people to see.

I once had a bitch that had a litter at 8 yrs. 1 week.  She'd had 2 litters before and then a new dog came into the country.  I just knew that he'd be right for her.  So I asked the KC and they approved me breeding from her.  She had 6 wonderful pups.  Lydia is now 12 and looks as though she's got a good few years in her yet, even though she's barking her head off right at this moment! 

Hmm yes 12 pups in total no bitches in last litter of 3. 3 bitches all together 9 dogs do you think one more litter to a different sire would have been the last straw? Immaterial really they didnt get permission and yet others have.

Which is my point Sandra 30 + puppies & at least one from each litter kept & they had puppies of both sexes either retained or in partnership & the last litter was a repeat mating BTW & all exported ! edited to add these breeders do charge & get mega $ for exports

Never looked at what FG had produced, but TBH I wouldn't put a bitch of mine through another litter after having had three even if they were small litters, but it does seem very unfair doesn't it. At least they had puppies from her my Hiedi never had the chance having to be spayed without having puppies, but her life was more important to me than any puppy she might have had

Same breeders before the ruling came in had one of their bitches miss the vet class at crufts as she was whelping a litter(her 7th or 8th I think) aged 10+ !!!  It wasn't unusual to see some breeders take a litter a seaon & bitches to have over 50 puppies ! Friend of mine in the same breed has just had a first litter from one of her bitches aged 3 + & last year was unusual for her as she has two litters ! one in the spring & one in November & she has no plans for any litters for a year or two & the 3 year old was from the last litter she bred !

I've just read PG's article in OD Hm she really has lost the plot & totally forgotten that in the wild young bitches do not have season in canine species & that Alpha bitches have one season a year even in domestic/captive packs. Of course there are"primitive"breeds that still have only one season.

About time that all breeding animals had to past health tests & working tests(if appropriate) & breed surveys even if they are not shown then before they are bred from It would mean that it wouldn't be possible just to buy a bitch & become a breeder

Agree with this entirely:
"About time that all breeding animals had to past health tests & working tests(if appropriate) & breed surveys even if they are not shown then before they are bred from It would mean that it wouldn't be possible just to buy a bitch & become a breeder "

Was talking to a friend yesterday who went to the pub a few days ago and noticed a nice little Cavalier.  He was finding it hard to breathe when walking and on chatting it transpires he has a bad heart and is 6 years old. 

The owner proundly announced that he was going to be a daddy soon, with a nice bitch around the corner, ejpdr oenrt had asked to use him.  She told him that heart trouble was hereditary, and he gave her a look that said mind your own business what do you know!

Another freind is trying to dissuade her boss from breeding from their Terrier type cross, but is getting knowhere, and one of the locals JRT has 7 pups and he doesn't understand she needs something more than a dish of Bakers soakked in milk left sown all day while he is at work.

I agree it does seem unfair and no I wouldn't have that many litters from a bitch myself and I don't think I would contemplate applying to have a late litter either. I haven't had a litter for 4 years the next one well that maybe in 2007 so long as adult eye tests are passed. DNA and hips are already done but we'll see :)

I have a golden here who is 8 next month.
She had a litter of 9 puppies 5 weeks ago, this was her 3rd and largest litter and I have to say she is a fantastic mother.
It all depends on ther bitch because i would never have mated her mother at the age of 7, some bitches age quicker than others.
emma x

Hi, can any one tell me what gap is preferable to leave between litters.

A minimum of one clear season, preferably two.

Thanks for your help my cousin had a litter from her Springer last year and was wondering how long she had to leave it before contemplating a second litter.  You sound like you are very knowledgeable on breeding and I wonder if you could possibly give me some advice.  I have a bitch who is expecting her first litter any day.  Today is the 63rd day since her second mating and I am in touch with my vet but am concerned as to how long they can go past their dates.  We had a day of panting, sickness and the runs (cant spell the other) all day on New Years Day.  Since then there has been no signs at all.  I have been taking her temperature which fluctuates between  36.8 and 37.7.  She has been off her food all this week and I am worried that she will have no energy.  Probably just an overreacting first timer but I hate to see her looking so uncomfortable.

Is she eating at all, and can you feel / see the puppies moving?

Yes I can feel the puppies moving.  She is eating very little but is still drinking.  A breeder friend suggested putting glucose in her water, is this a good idea?  I spoke to the vet on Friday and he said call him again tomorrow if no news.

Hi, I would certainly give the vet a call in the morning and maybe take her in if nothing has happened.  You may find that she whelps tonight.
Often bitches feel uncomfortable if they have a big litter and that can put them off their food (not so much space for it) but I would be a bit concerned that she hasn't eaten properly for quite so long.  Have you tried tempting her with scrambled egg?  One of mine had 15 puppies in a first litter (a bit of a shock for us all!) and she enjoyed scrambled eggs on toast.
What have you been feeding her on?

Thanks for the advice.  I took her to the vets this morning and as she was a bit listless he sent her for a scan.  All the fuss at the vets got her panting.  The scan confirmed that all the pups were OK and not under any stress and they said that signs of white mucoid vaginal discharge may also be a sign of stage 2 labour.  She has been nesting all afternoon and is still panting so we are hoping it will be soon for her.

Best of luck, hope all goes well.  Do you know how many pups she's expecting?

No they wouldn't tell me at the vets which was a shame.  It would have probably made it a little easier to know beforehand how many we are expecting.  Do you know the best way to identify the puppies for weight gain etc.  Some of the books I have researched suggest ribbons but is there not a risk in using these?

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