I have been reading all the topics and most of them relate to pedigree dogs. When I purchased my 2 goldens I always said I would never buy a dog that was not KC registered and from a reputable breeder and it took me months to find the right puppies for my family. However I was travelling to a client of my firm over a year ago and took a wrong turn, I ended up facing a gypsy site and what I saw made me upset and angry, 2 little puppies no older than 4 or 5 weeks tied up by bailer twine with no shelter in the pooring rain. They both looked close to death. Being the type of woman I am I marched up to the caravan told the gypsies what I thought of their disgusting behaviour and £50 later ended up taking them both home. My mum has one and I have the other. Mine is obvioulsy a springer spaniel he goes on all the shoots and springs the game and is very true to his breed the other is very true to the patterdale breed and both have been the best little dogs any one could wish for and I am so glad I rescued them. I think if people do not want to show or breed from their dogs and purely want a pet that pedigree isnt alwaYs important (please dont hurt me for saying that!) Alot of animals in rescue centres are not kc registered and are desperately waiting for loving homes and without people rescuing them will either spend their days staring at the same for walls or worse have to be put to sleep. If we all choose to only buy the best proven pedigree dogs it is very sad to think what happens to these lovely little soles in the kennels. I know many of them are their because of back yard breeders and just pure human selfishness but I think if people have room, time and love they should think of visiting the centres to find a best friend for life!

Just what i did :-)

We have always had pedigree Labradors and pedigree Australian Shepherds.  I believe strongly in breeding only from pedigree, health tested dogs.   Yet our latest addition to the family is a lab type puppy.   Why?   Because she was abandoned, along with 2 litter mates the week before Christmas, aged about 12 weeks.

She was badly nourished, very wormy, but is a happy little thing, who looks very, very lab-like - apart from a little white spot on her chin and a white toe.   It is interesting to note that the other two puppies who had been abandoned also had white splotches.

Why am I repeating this, when I have already announced the arrival of Missie on a post before Christmas?   Because I think it is important to point out that 3 puppies, age 12 weeks were abandoned...so what happened to the others?   My theory is that these 3 were part of a larger litter and I'll bet that the others in the litter were all black - and were sold as "non KC registered" labradors    The timing is also relevant - these puppies were abandoned the week before Christmas.  

Just because we have KC registered puppies does not mean that there is not room in our hearts/homes for Pedigree Tripe Hounds :)

Margot

Part of one of my reples on the good or bad breeder thread.

"The people who really wanted a good example of the breed would go to the specialist breeder, the rest who only want a pet (looks and characteristics immaterial), would get a rescue dog."

Alot of animals in rescue centres are not kc registered and are desperately waiting for loving homes and without people rescuing them will either spend their days staring at the same for walls or worse have to be put to sleep

This is very true, but surely that, imho as a novice , not even a dog owner! is the point.  I want a miniature scnhauzer because, from the research I have done into the breed, this is the breed of dog that suits me and my family best.  In an ideal world I would love a Border Collie, to do agility ect with, but this these are working dogs bred for well "working" i do not have the time to stimulate such a dog. So to get the breed of dog I want I will get a Miniature schnauzer, with the appropriate pedigree. However, if I want to just have heinz 57, and was not to concerned with "type" and  who would love me just as much, I would get a rescue.  But again, as a novice I would like to point out, that many rescue centres, prefer expereinced owners for thier dogs.  Sometimes, novices, who, and you only have to read these boards, have troubles enough with new puppies, can struggle with rescue dogs, who very often, through no fault of thier own, come with "problems"

IF more people, thought long and hard about, getting a dog, breeding a dog, finding a dog. Then these rescue centres would not exist, not forgetting that thier are many "breed" rescue centres as well

Just an opinion
Gosh get me getting quite opinionated in me old age:rolleyes:

Here is most of the rest of that post:

"The only justification for breeding at all when there are homeless dogs is to preserve and improve the breeds we have. 

It is also why I do not beleive in creating new breeds too, as to do so would mean breeding an awful lot with lots of wastage before you got what you wanted and a wide enough healthy gene base.

There are welfare organisations that want breeding curtailed and would prefer no more breeding AT ALL!!!

Now to save such a situation from happening surely it would be a good thing if only well thought out litters designed to enhance the breed were bred.

There would be a huge reduction of dogs going into rescue.  Most that needed rehoming due to changes in owners circumstances would go back to their breeder who would match them with someone willing to take on a rescue of their breed.

If evey pet owner who found their pet bitch had been mated was responsible enough NOT TO REAR that llitter then even more dogs already in rescue would be likely to find homes.  I also feel that Rescue centres should not rear litters from bitches they find to be pregnant.

The vast majority of so called pedigree dogs unregistered and registered do nothing for the breed, and if most of them were not bred the rescue centres would be practically empty.

The people who really wanted a good example of the breed would go to the specialist breeder, the rest who only want a pet (looks and characteristics immaterial), would get a rescue dog.

Sadly more and more good breeders breed fewer and fewer litters because there are so many in rescue centres, yet the rescue problem keeps being fueled by largely misguided people breeding from poor stock (from the breeding standard point of view) because of lack of knowledge just because the can/want to."

This is one of the main reasons we on this forum often get hot under the collar when people want to breed casually, many of us have been involved with rescue dogs, often at the sharp end. We as breeders have taken back dogs we ahve bred when the homes have not turned out as expected, so are under no illusion that none of mine could possibly ever need rescuing.  Sadly the casual person is unlikely to be able or want to do this, and yet another dog is in rescue.

I agree regarding people being more responsible in the first place and the centres then not existing, but take this time of year for example sadly alot of people buy puppies for christmas as presents (awful) and when they decide they dont have time or just dont want it they end up in care centres. So the centres are probably cracking at the seems with pups at the mo. Also alot of dogs in ther are from people who have sadly passed on and so the dogs are in through no fault of their own and have no prblem other than their beloved owner has died. Rescue centre need all sorts of people definitley not just the experienced. The sad fact is these centres do exist and are mostly all full and without kind people coming forward they oly get fuller

I dont think anyone is denying that these places are full to the brim with  unwanted pets, of all types, and many rescue centres do have dogs where the owners have died, but if you read, for instance the battersea web site, many of the dogs thier have problesm with barking, not being toilet trained, unable to be with children ect, again imho it takes a very special person to be able to take in one of these dogs and fulfill it's needs  rather than thier needs!.

Again it comes down to preference and breeding. I could, open up a copy of my local Friday Ad  and pick up a puppy/dog tomorrow, no questions asked.  That is where the problem lies,  not that some people prefer KC "breed" standards or that they want a heinz 57, the problem is that sometimes just because someones WANTS does not mean that they should

Dont really know what I am trying to say here,just for me , personally, I want to know, as much as possible about the little fellow coming into my house, because that way, i know, as much as I can, what i am taking on.

Its a shame more people arent like all of us on this website and then eventually there would be no need for rescue centres. The government need to have rules on breeding and who can and cannot and there should be fines for people who do not stick to the rules.....could probably go onto write a whole legislation on this topic........

I'm from Sweden originally, and in all of Stockholm there is only one rescue centre, and rescue dogs are rare. Anyone going to the rescue for a dog will NOT be allowed to view the dogs, they have to fill in a form stating what type of dog they want as regards size, coat, exercise required etc, and then the staff will match them to a suitable dog. The dogs cannot be viewed to prevent anyone from picking a dog on looks alone. It's the only rescue place I've ever heard of in Sweden.

People in general are aware that a dog should be KC registered, and to be able to show (even just to enter one show!) or breed, you HAVE to be a KC member. KC members have to follow the rules, and those include never to crosbreed dogs. Breeders have to agree to accept spot checks by KC reps to check their dogs are well cared for. Puppies cannot be registered unelss the parents are health tested, and if the parents do not have any show qualifications OR working ones (either will do!), it will cost the breeder twice as much to register each pup. Microchipping or tattooing is a legal requirement. Even the average dog owner with a pet is a KC member and receive their membership magazine (which has a lot of articles on training and responsible dog ownership, as well as show news etc), and most people don't ever buy a dog on a whim or get one if they work full time unless the have sorted out dog daycare or similar in advance. The great majority of pet owners will at least attend one puppy training class to learn the basics.

Hence rescue dogs are very rare indeed. Sadly in recent years Sweden has gone the same way as the UK and US, with designer crossbreeds being the "in" thing, and it is these dogs that tend to end up in rescue and being sold to unsuitable persons -after all, nobody breeding them can be  KC member and so are not subejct to all the usual rules. When I lived in Sweden (I moved to the UK in 1988) I had worked as a vet nruse for several years and also for a while as a dog groomer so I met lots of dogs, and I could count the number of crossbred dogs I had EVER seen in the country on my fingers!

Also most dogs in Sweden are not neutered as it isn't seen as right, but unplanned litters are rare.

It all comes down to the way people think, and what we learn from childhood. Here in the UK people see owning a dog as a right, not a priviledge, and breeding their dog also seems to be taken as a RIGHT.

I remember a few years ago a puppy in Sweden was dumped in a cardboard box and found by a postman. This was such a rare thing that it made newspaper headlines! "Puppy dumped!"

It was quite a culture shock when I came to England.

Beau, I think the difference is that these 2 puppies you found were already alive and existed.  So do most of the mutts in rescue shelters already exist.  It is the deliberate breeding of crossbreeds and unKC registered dogs which most people are against - if the pups already exist, then obviously like all dogs they deserve a loving home. 

However, it could be argued that, by paying £50 for them, you only encouraged the gypsies to breed more of them to sell (because you proved there was a market for them).

Best £50 I ever spent though and no doubt they had probably pinched them rather than bred them themselves as there were no signs on any other dogs. I guess it could be argued I 'encouraged' them, but I didnt just give them £50 they had an almighty telling off. Should I have just left the dogs there in the hope that me not rescuing them would discourage the gypsies from pinching or breeding more?

No, I don't think there are any easy answers - I just wanted to make that point.  Often we hear on this board of people who have bought puppies from puppy farmers, because they felt sorry for them and the condition they were kept in.  Unfortunately, their money just gets reinvested into breeding more puppies in those conditions.  :(

At least with Missie, Nik's money went to the Rescue Kennels!