Hi there,

We have adopted a 5 year old Dogue de Bordeaux, today was his first day with us. The dog belongs to my partner's brother, they feel they can no longer devote time to the dog due to having a small child. We have offered to help and we have both agreed on a three week trial period to see how things go.

Now he has never been socialised with cats, so when he first met my two wanted to chase them.  The cats are currently living in the bedroom, with door gate and have food water and litter tray there. They are however understandably very scared.

The dog has settled well for his first day and seems happy though am sure he will pine this evening when we put him to bed. I have chosen a very large cupboard, well tis more like a small room, for him to sleep in at night. He has his basket in there and its nice and warm. Not sure if it would be ok to close the door on him in there, but he has been in kennels before and it looks rather similar to one. It will be his own space and not used for punishment, only to be used for bedtime.

Anyhoo I am not sure yet how strong his instinct is to chase as tis only the first day. But would like any advice on how to introduce the dog to the cats and vice versa and teach him not to want to chase them and whether to punish etc... Currently he has taken to whining at the gate to the bedroom, we are at present ignoring him when he does thiswhich is working.

Advice welcome, I also understand that I may not be able to train him to like the cats and be gentle,thus the trial period, I have also considered rehoming the cats as I am constantly worrying that they will go past the green where there is a busy road and get hit by passing cars.

Spitzed x

I was in a house recently where 2 boxers were kept in 'the cupboard under the stairs' instead of a crate.  The people took the door off the cupboard and had a wrought iron gate made instead so the dogs could see out but it was still like their den.  I don't know if this would be of any use in your house but these two seemed to thrive on it

Indeed a good idea I shall have to pop down to my local B&Q and have a look.

Spitzed x

We have 4 cats and now down to two dogs (lost one in August) as I sit here writing this my cats are all asleep on the sofa and the dogs asleep  on the floor!

Obviously this has taken time and patience our dogs are pastoral and like to herd the cats into the same area and keep them together.
Saying that they do get chased but the cats have learned not to run if they walk slowly to wherever they want to go the dogs walk slowly behind them.

My advice to you would be to have  a gate on the stairs to enable the cats to escape give them lots of reassurance and attention with a nice warm comfortable area for them to rest as cats can become very stressed when a newcomer enters the fold.

It maybe difficult for you with your boy as he is an older dog who may have already took a dislike to cats.
Its a very slow long drawn out process and wont be achieved overnight.

I use a newspaper which I bang down on the worktop or wherever required and say NO firmly if the dogs are in a chasing mode which works well for me as they dont like the noise (but would like to point out that I have never physically used it on my girl its just a deterant)
You could also rattle a chain and teach a down on command of it as this also is a training method for bad behaviour that I used on my other dogs for chasing.

Congratulation on your new addition to your family and hope that you have many happy years together.

HTH

~Roni

This has been asked about by several people over the years :D The best advice seems to be to make sure that the cats have somewhere that they can escape to, but the dog can't reach. We did it the other way round, bringing a kitten into a house where the dogs had always chased cats I found the best way was to let the dogs out of the room into a bedroom, with the door closed. Then allow the cat into the room for a while so that it's scent was in the room. Then keep moving them between rooms. That way they get used to the scent of one another. Swapping bedding round also helped. In fact, anything that gets the other used to the smell of all inhabitants of the house will help. If you can put the cats into cat baskets out of the dogs reach, that might help, too, but be aware that the dog might try to jump up and attack them.

Hi Spitzed,

If you are basing your 3 week trial on seeing whether your cats can tolerate you new doggie I think this may be a bit unrealistic.  I hope I am wrong but if your cats aren't used to dogs and are used to being the centre of attention then it can take a lot longer!  I have a 6 year old Burmese a 5 year old Siamese and a 9 month old dobie girl who now tolerate each other fine.  Ciara would love to be friends, my cats look at her when she tries to give them a big sloppy kiss as if to say fat chance and walk off in disgust! :-)  For the first 3 months I really thought I'd ruined my cats lives but with lots of hard work things are now fine and I have even caught them all on the sofa together at opposite ends but 3 months ago I would never have thought this possible.  My cats would run as soon as they saw Ciara and she thought this was an invitation to chase.  I tried to prevent chasing as much as possible by putting a house line on her so that I could stand on it as soon as she looked like she was about to leap in their direction. I have also spent a lot of time teaching her the leave command.  I also put animal gates with a bar cut out so the cats could run through in my bedroom and kitchen doors so the cats could escape when they wanted.  I also put a floor to ceiling scratch post in my living room so the cats could come in with Ciara and myself and observe from above while feeling safe. 
It really has been worth the hard work - my cats are back to their normal selves and I just love seeing them all curled up in front of the fire.

One other thing I did was buy a DAP difusser for the cats which is calming for a lot of cats in stressful situations and may help them over this adjustment period.

I really hope it works for you.

All the best,

Karen

Thanks Karen. I shall see how things go and try what you suggested. I agree that 3 weeks may not be enough time, but it is also to see if the dog settles or not. He sometimes stays at a farm when they (previous owners) go on holiday. He is fine and then after 2 weeks starts pineing (not sure on spelling there). All depends if he can accept that he is here for a long time.

Spitzed x

We have no stairs, we live in a large ground floor flat. Hence the reason I chose to place the gate to the bedroom. When the dog is taken for walks we open the gate and allow the cats to explore the smells and the rest of the home.

I shall try the newspaper technique. He is partly trained, he will listen to the sit command but is quite strong willed. I have had to be firm and persistent. Have been told he is slightly dim and thus why he hasn't grasped commands. I beg to differ and feel due to breed that he is strong willed and with consistant training that I could teach him much more, he is more intelligent than they think.

I realise this will take time, I got a little emotional earlier as one of the cats has taken to staying outdoors for the past several hours. The other cat seems more at ease but she is alot braver than the other.

Spitzed x

Hi again Spitzed,

I can understand you feeling emotional about it - I felt so guilty for quite a while.  Something else that might be worth considering is keeping the cats in for a few weeks like you would do if you moved home.  My cats are house cats so I didn't have a problem but I know it can be a problem that some cats just spend more and more time outside and therefore never really get used to the dog.  As long as they've got the bedroom to escape to with their usual beds so they can feel comfy and maybe the DAP difusser in their if you decide to give it a go.  I found the floor to ceiling scratch post invaluable as the cats could be in the room getting used to her being there while feeling safe.  They still go up there and chill out for a while if Ciara is bugging them with a play with me nudge up the bottom :-).

Karen

thanks so much for the kind and helpful words Karen. Shall look into the floor to ceiling cat post, I already have a tall cat post and a smaller one, I may be able to link them together to make one large one.

Spitzed x

I agree with keeping the cats in for a little while if possible then you wont have the worry of them fleeing.

The cats are definitely in charge of the dogs ...now   and they will give a quick slap on the nose if they think the girls are getting a little to close to thier personal space.
Its amazing how they all eventually tolerate each other .

My cats sleep in the dogs crates by choice and will not move so the dogs have to climb in next to them if they want to have a kip!

My cats are all rescue they were all here before the  dogs I  have now but have lived with dogs all thier lives.

Roni

hello spitzed

how you getting on??

~Roni

Well last night went well, no crying or whining at bedtime, he chose to sleep outside the bedroom door by the gate. Woke up this morning, as soon as he heard me speak he woke up and I then took him for his morning walk.

Whilst I have been at work he has been on numerous walks with my partner, long and short, he was taken to an enclose field, let off the leash and had a good run about, he was apparently overjoyed. lol When he is called he either comes straight away or stops which is a relief.

He still whines at the gate to the bedroom so my partner waits until he stops then opens the bedroom door so that he can see through, if he whines then the door is closed. Seems to be working along with the ignoring when he does it, will take a bit of time no doubt.

Partner also opened the door eariler today to the bedroom and let Moogie (the brave cat) wander up to the gate to say hello, Marley was calm, Moggie hissed, Marley then barked and Moogie fled under the bed.

Simba (the not so brave cat), was out all last night and decided to sit outside by the window. We fetched him eariler today and shut the window and he had a nice sleep and somthing to eat. We cannot close the window for long as it really upsets him.

So some progress, I think Moogie and Marley may have a chance in getting along, but at present Simba is far too scared. Simba is a grumpy so and so, he hates children and runs away from them, he also dislikes all other cats, for a long time he even picked fights with Moggie. Simba is very stuck in his ways in that respect.

Am feeling stronger today, was worried last night as Simba has now taken to running off down the path and has been spotted near the road. Need to keep a close eye on him.

Spitzed x

What's really important is teaching the no bite or soft bite. I don't really know how you'd do this with a rescue but with my puppys its taught when they beggin nipping habits. When the dogs are playing with the felines i tell them no bite and they either soft bite or just lick the heck out of the cats. It also depends alot on how the cats liike the dogs , some cats are more tolerant and love playing with the dogs (most of my cats just give a swift paw to the face if they're not in the mood) but some strays that i've taken in just hide behind chairs and hiss until the goldens get bored:). good luck!

PS. yeah simba sounds really feral, like the strays that come in and out they really dont want anything to do with the dogs and theres nothing i can do about it.

Manny.

Marley doesn't nip or chew at all. Will only know if he tries to nip when the cats decide to inch closer to him. Something yet to be discovered.

Spitzed x

Has simba been neutered as if he is a full male cat he will prefer to be outside!
I only had one male amongst the ladies and he was far more laid back than the girls.
I would try to keep him in with a litter tray to let him see that thier is nothing to be afraid of.
If he spends his time outside they will never bond.

thinking of you as it can be stressful for everyone in the early days but hang in there!

~Roni

Our dogs have always just come in, seen the residential cat, sniffed the cat, been hissed at and 'hit' by the cat then left them alone.  Initial 'chasing' did occur but as soon as the puss turned round and eyeballed them they would leave well alone ...... until our new little girl came home that is who is just so desperate to play with the purry furry bless her :D  They are getting to be friends though - or atleast the cat 'tolerates' her :) haha Shelties are our breed so a tad smaller than yours - our little girl isn't a great deal bigger than the cat as she's teeny!

He has indeed been neutered. Simba has always been very persistent in regard to being let outdoors. I remember a couple of years ago he hurt his paw and had to have it bandaged, vet told me to keep him in for two weeks. lasted 4 days, he went manic, and was highly stressed all the time. In the end I let him out and he was fine.

We are closing the window for several hours,and also letting the cats explore when Marley is out for walks to intermingle smells.

Trying to get Simba to even look at Marley is impossible at the moment, if left on the floor he runs and hides under the bed immediately, if we hold him he goes into full panic mode and does anything to get away.

I may try and place Simba in the cat carrier and see how he reacts high up in carrier.

Spitzed x

Hi Spitzed,

Glad last night seemed to go well.  If I were you I would not hold Simba in the same room as the dog or put him in his carrier - it is just likely to panic him and make him even more scared - he will come and investigate the dog when he feels ready, what you could do is if you have or can get hold of a crate for your dog, providing he is ok with going in one, then pop the dog in the crate and let the cats in to come and investigate and sniff at him :-)

Hope you have another good night.

Karen

As mentioned I have a large cupboard which I place the dog gate on, would that be the suitable or would it be better to have him in a crate where he is in a smaller space?

Spitzed x

if you have the room I would also have a crate so that he can be near you if required in his crate and the cats can come and go as they please for part of the time until they are more socialised.
But I suppose if he has his own den with a gate on and it is safe enough to let the cats out and he cant escape then that would also be fine.

I know it must be frustrating and you a probably wondering what you have let yourself in for but persevere we are all here if you want to have a moan...we all do it as much as we love our dogs and cats so dont worry ..
you can PM me anytime if you want a chat ...Roni

Hi Spitzed,

The cupboard is fine for him, but if you could borrow a crate temporarily so that you can have him in the living room with you and the cats can wander round him and approach from any direction while he is settled in there.  It does help, the cats do seem to know when they are "safe" from the dog. To start with mine would stay well away from her at all times other than when I put her to bed in the crate and then they would walk up to the crate and sniff and get used to being close to the dog without any worry.  I swear they said nah nah, nah, nah nah, your in there and we're out here to her at times! :-D  I know you're only in a flat but they fold flat so don't take up space when you're not using them.

Karen

Another quiet night :)

Today we opened the door to the bedroom so that Marley could see through the gate, he sat there quietly watchng them for almost an hour. Cats stayed where they were, Simba still nervous but Moogie was rather relaxed and sat and watched him with curiosity.

Later on Moogie had discovered one of the other windows to be open and decided to comeinto the house and intothe corridor. Marley gave chase, and Moogie ran out of the window, although it did not faze her in the slightest, I swear she has little balls of steel eventhough she is female lol

I came home today and opened the door to see what he would do, he then started to bark, so I told him off firmly (voice only) and told him to go to the living room. He tried another 2 times to come to the bedroom door but I stood my ground and told him to get back in the living room. Once there and onced he had calmed down I praised him. So no need for the banging of newspaper at present. Am trying to teach him that if he is quiet and calm he is then allowed to watch the cats.

he is ever so clever, but strong willed which I suppose is why people mistook that for dumbness. He tests me everyday, but is realising I am no pushover and is regarding me as top dog now.

I feel good today. :)

Spitzed x

glad to hear your feeling more confident.

hope tomorrow is another good day.

Roni