Horrors, my two GSD pups aged 7 weeks were in the garden yesterday morning when one of the young chickens jumped over the fence (not clipped their wings yet) but we didn't notice this cos it hid in some bushes, the next thing we saw was both pups playing tug with what looked like at a brown cloth.
We went to investigate and were horrified with finding a dead chicken.
We grabbed the pups by the scruff of the neck and shouted at them.
I can only presume that the chicken ran and the pups did what pups do and chased them, but with two pups, they both wanted it and this caused the death of the chicken.

Trouble is with pups so young its hard to know the best way to stop this behaviour in the future other than teaching the leave command and reinforcing it constantly until it sinks in that this behaviour is unacceptable.

Do you think they will be serial chicken killers for life? or is it just a kids thing?

Lynne

Aww so sorry about your chicken :( I love chickens, wish I could keep them but I live in town. I know this is irrelevant, but the poor chicken's plight upset me :(

Wish you luck with training the dogs to leave. Ziggy won't leave birds either :( *sigh*

Lynne- I'm not in a position to advise but just thought I's share my story with you so you don't feel alone- Kass at 10 weeks got out into the garden when the rabbit was out- she was chasing him and the rabbit looked as if he thought it was a game since he stayed still until she approached then kicked his back legs up and ran- he also kept going through a gap that she couldn't- he really did seem to be tormenting her. I thought it would be fine- Ali's pup Ruby plays with their rabbit. Next thing I know the rabbit's laying stiff under the swing with Kass nipping at it:( The rabbit lived by the way- to me this was Kassie play biting like pups do but unfortunately the rabbit couldn't take it that way and probably wouldn't have lasted had I not rescued him when I did. I would say that you don't have serial chicken killers on your hands but more just two playful puppies and a chicken that can't take as much as they have to give? Kassie also used to jump up to try and get the rabbit when he was in his hutch but we told her off and now when we open the hutch at feeding time she's fine- the rabbit though has sadly turned into a nasty so and so:(

Stacey x x x

We used to have a couple of rabbits when I was young. Our dog couldn't stand them just sitting there eating, so would nudge them with her nose to make them hop! All well and good until they turned on her!:)
LynnT

Lynn, once sold a deerhound pup to someone who had fancy rabbits. I gave all sorts of dire warnings about how, though I took normal resposibility for the pup, the fate of the rabbits was on their own heads - and I didn't expect it to be a happy one! Blow me, but the deerhound lay down with the rabbits and they became the best of friends - despite the fact that that puppy grew up to be mustard on wild rabbits and hares!

aww poor bunny :( dogs are real meanies sometimes :(

I can't believe how the young cat we have hasn't been tormented by the little horrors though, they seem to think he is an unplayful dog or something, he just gets out of their way when he's had enough.

I wouldn't mind so much but we have a few young cockerels that need culling but noooooooooo!!! it had to be a hen didn't it!!

Lynne

My friend who is now sadly dead, bred Finnish spitz. She had around 20, and most of the day they were out in a big run on her 5 Acre property, with shelters if it rained.

She also kept a lot of various poultry, mainly bantams. One got the nickname of 'oven ready' after surviving a run in with the Finns, when he foolishly flew into the big dog run!!! He escaped alive but practically featherless!! the racket alerted the owner and her friend to his plight, and he was resued in time.

The Finns are after all barking bird dogs, being used to hunt Capercaile!

Hi

If your pups are just 7 weeks old, there is lots of instinct there, but I bet they had lots of fun just pulling it and having tug with each other :( Poor chicken... :(...trouble is, now they will know what fun these birds can be.

Can you just manage the situation and really keep them all apart? My guinea pigs are in a run in the garden and also hutches, and the dog has now accepted them and leaves them alone, but I won't trust her with them running completely free til she is much older, as her instinct to chase is so very strong.

If you can get the pups totally habituated to the birds (Ie so that the birds are almost part of the furniture,) they may get to think of them as family.....GSd's in particular will do this, and even protect them. But it really does depend on so much, pup;s characters etc. ...plus as there are two....

/Another idea is to use the MasterPlus, if all else fails and you really feel you cannot keep dogs and chickens apart.....howver it is not a piece of equipment I would ever use on a pup without advice from someone wwho knows the whole situation. (it is not an e collar by the way! It just puffs a squirt of air)

Good luck
Lindsay

I wouldn't mind but we have just got Shadow to the stage where he will ignore the chickens mostly and nearly always even when he has been tormented by them and is in full flight, now its start all over again in duplicate.

They are lovely though, I can't believe how different their personalities are, the black one (Roxy) is a thinker and is so clever and independant, the black and tan (Abbey) is act first and think later (if ever)

Lynne

Hate to be negative Lynne, but although I've got many hounds steady with sheep, cattle, horses, cats etc., including some adults that needed 'reform', I've never had a 100% record with poultry. There seems to be something about a flapping hen - or worse fancy fowl - that sets some dogs off. That said, I may have a 'failure complex' about poultry, and its not always as easy to get 'pratice hens' (that survive!) as it is to get 'practice sheep'.

As Lindsay says these pups are just babies and they are of a highly trainable breed but there are two and they now know that preparing chicken dinner is fun :-(. Lindsay's method of trying to teach the pups that hens are part of the furniture is the best way to go imo, but hens have an irritating way of not acting like part of the furniture, and here we've found that segregation is the only really safe way.

Hi Lynn

One of my methods is to pick up a cockerel, hold its feetand tease the dog with it, then as soon as dog reaches nose out use feet to scratch dog. I had one cockerel who seemed to enjoy this and would lay on it back in my hands and do the scratching itself. I have also been known to tie a dead chicken to a pup's collar for a few days (not nice) but I can't imagine this working with more than one at once.

With my adults I can (and do) practice stays in with the chickens and I only have one who will chase them and she only does so if she thinks I am trying to catch one, otherwise the dogs pretty much ignore them except as a source of eggs.

Christine

Any tips to stop Thistle chasing the rabbit. At the moment I only have them loose separately
Jane

Sorry Jane- that's my problem too:) Infact I've only just managed to let the rabbit out for a run and clean him out since Sean's took Kass out for a walk to his Mums:) If you find out before me email me and if I find out I'll email you:)

Stacey x x x

Unless the pups are taught how to behave around poultry then their natural instinct is to chase/kill. You must put them on long leads, like a lunging line or something, and let them see the hens then as soon as they show the slightest bit of interest, yank them hard, sideways, so they fall over & shout NO in your most menacing sternest voice. Do this until the pups don't even want to look at the hens. It works.

If anyone chooses to do it this way, then at least put the dog on a harness, and not on a normal collar, as it will at least prevent neck injury :(

LIndsay

I read this ages ago (or possibly watched it on the box memory aint so good!) about how one of the presenters of one man and his dog trained his dogs not to chase poultry. He used to go out with the pup very young and put them in with the chickens. He would have a large bag of corn. Whenever the pup went for the chickens he threw a handful of corn at the puppy. Distracted it enough to stop it in its tracks. Not sure if it would work and it is possible you would need to train them individually in this but may be worth consideration.

Take your pups one at a time, to the chicken enclosure. Put him on a slip lead or check chain (Yes, I KNOW!) and make him sit outside the run and watch the chickens for 1/2 hour or so per day. Every time he tries to lunge at the chickens, say "No" and make him sit again. Take a book, this could go on for some time. Eventually, unless you have exceptionally thick pups :), they will get so bored that they will ignore them. Then you can treat them and praise them (maybe clicker training here?) for leaving the chooks alone.

Works with sheep too btw. Perseverance is the key :)

K

Hi Kaye & Sam, have used a mixture of your methods for sheep and other stock with good results, and have tried with poultry. Pups seem to become steady with fowl, but then one day a stupid hen flaps in front of a supposedly trained young adult, and its curtains. Like I said, I think I probably have a failure complex with poultry, but any hints would be very welcome :-).

Hi Sharon - how about clipping all the hen' flight feathers so they can't flap so easily :)

Christine

Hi Christine, thanks. Its done with our own chooks. The real problem is that we have a few fancy fowl people around here. The dogs are never off our own place unsupervised, but we 'have permission' on places where we have unexpectedly run into flapping things - and once or twice it has all become very, very embarrassing :o :o. I don't totally trust any sighthound with sheep, but if I could just get them as reliable with feathers as they are with wool I'd be happy.

Not having any chickens these days, whenever I visit my cousin I take the opportunity to take "The Flower" into the chicken run. Almost as good for training as a rabbit pen!

Regards, John

Sharon,
an old gamekeepers method I have tried with a foxhound pup I was walking once, it killed a hen so I gave it a telling off, then tied the dead hen to its collar and really layed in (verbally!) saying......what's this then.....who did this etc. The pup couldn't escape the dead hen around its neck & after an hour I cut it free & that pup couldn't even look a hen in the eye afterwards, let alone chase one!!

Hi Sam, have never tried that one as I'd not spoken to anyone who had actually used it, but I may give it a try next time there is a 'little accident'.

Sam, when Lynne mentioned cats, made me wonder how Henna is getting on? I remember you warned me that the first few days with an oriental could be noisy, and boy were you right! For almost a week Van the cat was a hissing, screaming monster that wouldn't eat and looked like ET without enough small change to phone home. Then he suddenly decided life here is OK and changed from the original hell cat into a perfect puss in a matter of hours. Very odd tranformation, but the dogs are most relieved :-).

Henna is now the perfect cat......although she is called stick insect, fruit bat, praying mantis etc by everyone!
I still have to double take whenever I see her & the hounds curled up to each other, I am totally amazed at how they accept and like her!

Our lot had lived with cats before, liked them and remembered. Van wasn't so sure about friendly hounds at the start, but its gone from a love-hiss relationship to affection on both sides. We've got the fruit bat and praying mantis lines too, but to us he is an elegant double handful of purring brown silk :-).

Just had to write and say that my name is Lynne and I also have a dog called Shadow -although he is a Great Dane. Strange eh! My dane is petrified of cats. He got swiped by one of my brothers cats when he was a young pup - he's 2 now. And still hasn't forgotten it. He runs away every time he sees one. What a scaredy dog!!

>>What a scaredy dog!!

A cat has 5 points of attack

Sounds like a very sensible dog to me :D

That would explain why Hudson KEEPS wanting to chase my cats then Leigh ;)

No brain :D

Melody

Dogs love to chase chickens. I used to keep ornamental
chickens, several pounds worth. When we took on a
bitch that the owners did not want. She went off after
three weeks to my chicken runs, broke through the fence
and killed every one. I was so upset at the time as she
killed years of breeding. But I kept the dog and did not
get any more chickens.
Nutkin

How about not clipping the flight feathers at all, I don't with any of my chickens (all 22 of them) I feel it gives them a fighting chance if something goes for them.

My youngest weim killed one of my hens when he was a baby, (about 4 months old I think) but now they make such a racket when they see the dogs that the dogs give them a wide berth.

Good luck!

Don't worry my 2 goldens did this to me a couple of times and they were repremanded for it. they now dont even bother with them but I have been going gundog training with the male and he refuses to pick up a dead bird now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

I have a mini schnauzer who came in one day with a mouthful, not sure what it was so asked him politely, 'muffim' (nothing with a mouthful) came the reply, opened his mouth and out fell a very small dead bluetit baby. On further inspection of the garden I found another nestmate, also very much departed.

Just luck on zaks part that they happened to fledge into 'his' garden, he now keeps a close eye on anything wingy that happens to land and is like a silver bullet, usually catching a mouthful of wood pigeon tail feathers if he times it right!!!!!

Don't think I will bother with chickens.

Hi Shadow
Sorry about your chicken :(
We have chickens too and have had chasing games in the paddock, dog after chicken and us after the dog, anyone looking on would think we were all mad.Well we are but you know what I mean.
On lighter note, we had a pup called Freddy custard...don't ask.He was about 13 weeks old,playing happily in the paddock when all of a sudden we heard such a comotion and he came flying out from behind the trees screaming at the top of his voice , and there following at high speed was one of the ducks chasing him.Revenge of the duck ! We were in hysterics.These big brave gsds eh ??

It makes me laugh cos Shadow used to chase them but didn't know what to do next, now when the pups chase or kill a chicken Shadow sits near the back door as if to say "Hey I had nothing to do with all this"

He even runs away from a yappy mini yorkie!!!

Lynne