Hi, I am new to the board but have been reading a variety of posts for the last few hours and am getting more and more confused with regard to the best food for my dogs.  I own a 9yr old Long Hair GSD, a 4yr old Cocker Spaniel and a Rottweiler who will be 3 in April.  They are all very active and used to be fed on Gilpa, they are now on Bakers.  Before you shout at me, I have never really thought too much about the ingredients, it looked good, dogs like it, seemed reliable.  I am now very worried about what I have been feeding my dogs.  I looked through posts to find out what most people prefer and got lost in branding.  We did feed Our GSD on JWB when he was younger and have considered going back to that, I have also looked at Eukanuba.  I have read worrying posts about virtually all the brands of dog food I know!!  I just do not know what will be best for my boys now, or should I try to make my own food?  If that is the case, any suggestions?  I am only in my early twenties and do not have much experience with foods so any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks
SJ

The best food for your dog is one that suits them and you ;) No one SHOULD shout at you for whatever food you feed them , it is your choice at the end of the day :)

Is there anything about your dogs' condition to suggest they are not thriving on what you are already feeding?  Bakers contains a lot of colouring that some dogs may have a reaction but by no means all so if yours don't fall into that category I don't think you need worry.  My friends feed their labrodor on Bakers, her poos are softer than I would like :) but they are great hill walkers which she copes with in sterling fashion, tirelessly, and has quite the shiniest coat I have ever seen on a black lab :)

No one is going to shout at you :)

Food does seem to be an emotive subject though.  There are many differing opinions on the subject.  If I were you I would carry on with the food you think is good for your dogs and carry on reading before coming to any conclusions.  The conclusions you come to should be your own based on your lifestyle, budget and what suits your dogs ;)

My own dog is fed on JWB and is energetic and healthy.  From the posts I have read JWB seems to be generally well respected as far as commercial complete foods go.

Hope that helps :)

Be prepared for an avalanche of replies!
I used to feed mine complete foods until about 31/2 years ago, when concerned about the increasing incidence of cancers and also the medical profession saying that we humans should eat fresh foods rather than processed, I switched over to a BARF (bones and raw food) diet.  Mine have raw chicken wings for breakfast and various minces / chunks of meat with pulverised vegetables in the evening.  I am delighted with their condition and they LOVE their food.

Cancer is more prevelant in the elderly since the advent of complete foods more dogs live longer.  There are no foods marketed to humans as complete, not even Pot Noodle all you students reading this :p so they don't really compare, I expect you are thinking of convenience foods which are quite rightly recommended to be used in limited form and not formulated like a complete lacking some essential elements, typically fibre, and have too many of others, fats, salt and sugars.  Dog completes are balanced for complete and everyday use.

Hi Isabel
I did say "processed", not "complete", and my point was to feed my dogs fresh food rather than processed - which complete foods undoubtedly are!

I don't think there ever has been any health agency advise to avoid processing in itself.  Cooking and canning are forms of processing.

That's why I feed fresh to my dogs!  They have a much healthier diet than I do - in my opinion!

That wouldn't suprise me :D The average western human diet is awful they would be much better off eating a complete diet appropriately formulated for them by nutritionalists, unfortunately you can't just put a bowl infront of a human and deny them the opportunity to hop off down to McDonalds :) luckily with our dogs we can

I'm very similar to you :) My older dog was fed on Pedigree and then JWB until I switched to raw feeding 6 years ago for very similar reasons to you. I had the time to raw feed and switched the younger one over to raw just as soon as she had settled into our home at about 14 weeks :) I've no problem with people feeding any commercial food and have actually encouraged friends NOT to switch to feeding raw in some circumstances :D :D

Daisy

Hi Sarah Jane

You are going to get quite a few different replies to this question, I think.

I have certain foods which I personally prefer to feed my dogs and which I think are better foods for them than others, and I'll say what they are in a mo.

I arrived at this conclusion after researching the subject quite a lot.  I asked people I respected and whose opinions on everything else doggie, I considered to be spot on.  I asked them why they had the opinions they did.  I read stuff on line - I know people diss the internet quite a lot as a source of information, but there is a load of great info out there.  I read some books about the pet food industry.

All I can advise you to do, is to read a lot about what to look for in a dog food and what to avoid - I'll give you some links in a minute.  Also read ingredient labels and compare them.  Think about what you personally think is a good food for your dogs, based on your own research and opinion.  Make a shortlist and try some. 

Here are some links about nutrition which you might want to read and which might help you to sort out the confusion:

http://www.acorndogtraining.co.uk/nutrition.htm

http://www.dogaware.com/

There is also a book called "Food Pets Die For" by Ann Martin - although it's based on the situation in the US (which is much worse than here), a lot of it is relevant.

There is no one food which is suitable for all dogs - even though you might do some research and pick a food with ingredients you believe are great, they still may not suit your dogs.  However, there are at least 4 brands out there which I think are excellent choices, and each of these make several different flavours, so that gives a huge choice if the first one you try doesn't suit.

And now for my personal opinion, which after all is what you wanted from us all:  Bakers would definitely not be on my shortlist of a food to feed my dogs.  It contains sugar - bad for dogs' teeth and unnecessary.  It contains artificial colours, preservatives and flavourings which have been proven to cause hyperactivity in children (and so probably do in dogs).  It contains the dreaded carcinogenic BHA and BHT which I seem to be campaigning against at the moment on another thread, it contains anonymous "cereals" when many dogs are found to be intolerant of wheat and anonymous "meat and animal derivatives".  While I don't care what part of an animal I'm feeding to my dogs, I would like to know what animal it is.  That's just the short version of why I don't like Bakers!!  Personal opinion part over with.

If you want to look into alternatives, have a look at these foods:

www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk
www.wellbeloved.co.uk
www.wafcol.co.uk      (These are all dry foods).

www.naturediet.net   (This is a wet food.)

Have a look at those foods, read the ingredient list and read the links above, then decide for yourself which foods you think are best for your dogs.  And if you still think Bakers is best after all your research, then of course you should still feed Bakers.

Why not stick to your motto on the other thread

>Feed what YOU and YOUR dog are happy with and doing well on :)

Why should they worry about something that may be dangerous is very large amounts when only tiny amounts are used and have never been found to cause any harm?  I suggest you take your "campaign" to the government if you think the levels have not been set correctly.
Similarly small amounts of sugar do no harm at all.  Other components of food can, equally, cause teeth problems, if the act of crunching the food itself does not clean the teeth adequately then action has to be taken anyway in terms of offering chews, bones or brushing.
Why does it matter what meat is used if your dog is not allergic to any of them?  I doubt they would be bothered :)
Additives have been found to cause hyperactivity in some children but certainly not all, many of us got through our childhood scoffing custard powder and smarties and still managed to pass our exams :)  I suppose it may follow that some dogs are similarly affected but as dogs vary in the case of several food items I don't see it necessarily follows and have only heard of these things manifest themselves in terms of digestive and skin problems.  High levels of protein appear to be linked to hyperactivity more often in dogs.

I agree Isabel, I have only switched foods when forced to because someone's tummy has disagreed with the first type of food. If they look and act healthy and the stools are normal, don't fiddle! :-)

Hi Sarah Jane,

I'd suggest you take what Isabel says on this subject with a pinch of salt.  (Which she will probably argue is fine for you in vast quantities, as long as the government says so.)

She seems to have a personal vendetta for anything I have to say on the subject of food and I think it can safely be said is hardly serious and is in it for the rise.  It's all getting a bit (yawn) boring now.

However, as you can see, I stick by what I've always said:

"Have a look at those foods, read the ingredient list and read the links above, then decide for yourself which foods you think are best for your dogs.  And if you still think Bakers is best after all your research, then of course you should still feed Bakers."

Just make sure that your choice of what to feed is an informed, empowered and well-researched decision and you'll know you're doing the best with what you feed to your doggie pals.  Just like every other decision in life, don't fall into something by default - make it an active decision and not a passive one. 

I suggest you avoid personal insults they are against the TOS.  People having opposing views on a subject does not amount to a vendetta and it is not for you to decide if another poster is to be taken seriously or not.  You may wish to suppress other views but in my experience if your views are sound and you can offer sound rationales for them you should never need feel the need.
When advising someone to "research" any subject on the internet or from single interest books I would always suggest they hone up on their study skills first as a great deal of context and bias has to be accounted for :)

"People having opposing views on a subject does not amount to a vendetta"

No, but people taking issue with another person's views, no matter what the subject, no matter what the post they post on, does indeed amount to a vendetta.  Which I think you'll also find is against the TOS.

"I would always suggest they hone up on their study skills first as a great deal of context and bias has to be accounted for"

I think most people are aware of context and bias and if someone is truly undecided about something, then they will read both sides of the argument before making up their mind.

I do disagree with your views on this subject as I am entitled to do, I don't recall ever discussing any other subject with you but no doubt if I disagreee, or agreed with you and it was a subject that interested me I would, that is not a vendetta.  For that I would suggest I would need to be writing on subjects I have never bothered with before just because you are and that clearly is not happening.  If you feel I have, report to Admin otherwise keep your personal thoughts to yourself and observe the TOS as I say if your views are sound there is not need for this personal stuff.

>someone is truly undecided about something, then they will read both sides of the argument before making up their mind.

I would hope they would do that anyway, they should not be decided before looking into a subject that is one of the essentials of good study skills, I'm not as sure as you that lots of people do understand this.

Hi
Can I just ask, when everyone mentions a "wet" food they always advise Naturediet. Nobody seems to ever mention Natures Menu pouches. Is ther a reason for this? Is it not as good as Naturediet? Just curious thats all.
Wendy

I use the Narure Menu, not the pouch's but the 2kg packs of free flow frozen, it has been great for my dogs, one having puppies and she has not lost one bit of condition, I was worried about Crufts, but she looks good.

Barbie would not touch the pouch's, strange these dogs, I would recommend it if a person would like to feed BARF but has not got the confidence or time for all the prep work.

Hi Sarah,
Here are just some of the ingredients i avoid in pet foods-

meat/cereal derivatives,colours,by-products,wheat,BHA,BHT,ethoxiquin,among others. All of these are contained in Bakers,which, if you want my honest opinion is one of the worst foods out there at the moment :(

I remember when I was a lass.....just prior to the invention of the wheel ;) and my mother telling me how no responsible dog owner would ever feed their dog 'Chappie' as it was chaeap rubbish
These days it is often recommended by vets, and many dogs do very well on it.

Edited to add: Oh no not the 'what do vets know bout dog food' debate again:rolleyes:

I think vets were recommending it when your mother was a lass, let alone you :)

You mean she lied to me ;)

Oh! Who knows, maybe the vets were lying :p Never argue with your mother :D

Somehow i doubt vets are going to recommend Bakers any time soon And if they did then i would think they truly have lost the plot

Oh no not the 'what do vets know bout dog food' debate again

Considering you are the  one who "specifically" brought the vet subject up,is it a debate about this subject,that you want to see? :rolleyes:

You are entitled to your opinions Hailey :) do I detect a sense of humour bypass:rolleyes: as I do not wish to debate vets and dog food with you or anyone, however feel free I'm not particularly interested.

Hi Wendy, I have used natures menu pouches and also forthglade which is similar which IMO is equal to naturediet.

Hi
Thank you and thanks to Britney1000, thought no-one was going to reply. I was feeding them The Prize choice freeflow mince and adding veg, but they seemed to go off it, so changed to the Natures menu pouches which they seem to enjoy. Just wondered if there was some reason that the pouches were never mentioned, seems to be always Naturediet.
Wendy

Hi WendyD,

At our local supplier, Natures Menu is about 10p a pack more expensive than Nature diet and (from memory) weighs 50g or thereabouts less so depending on how much your dog(s) needs on a daily basis, it is a more expensive food.  As I haven't used Nature's Menu I can't comment on it quality wise in comparison to ND but if they use comparable ingredients it may be one of the reasons that it's not often mentioned as additionally ND can be purchased direct at a substantial saving (although possibly Nature's Menu can too!).

HTH, regards Teri :)

i use jwb and my dog is thriving off it- she has sensitive digestion and skin- and is doing well on the fish jwb- i also use nature diet- now nature menu as no nd left!

i would love to feed barf diet- but believe that im not educated enough in the nutrional needs of dogs- i think that barf's a good idea but think that some people who use it do exceed/or need to increase  the nutrients they are feeding, its a learned skill.

i'd rather feed a complete food thats designed to fulfill my dogs nutritional needs, so dont worry!

It's amazing isn't it - we have the confidence to feed our own children but not our dogs!!!!
(That comment is NOT aimed at anyone before I offend somebody)

Yes, isn't it strange? :-) and why do people believe pet food ads when they wouldn't believe loads of other adverts?

Because pet food adds say their foods are designed by scientists,and that dogs must eat a complete and balanced food every day to be healthy,and they more or less insinuate that we laypeople could not possibly feed our own dogs at home,which for me is the most insulting

Ridgielover I also wonder how people manage to feed their children,but think they cant feed their dogs

I guess the adds are working arent they,they have very subtly,over the years pointed out that you need a scientist to feed your dog and people actually believe it :( Altho i have talked to a few people who have ended up admitting that they used this as an excuse to not go to the bother of feeding home made!

NOT aiming this at anyone inparticular either,it just needs to be said that feeding dogs is not rocket science and if people can feed themselves and their families then they can certainly feed their dogs :)

I agree Hailey.  Trouble is the pet food market is an extremely lucrative one for the manufacturers and probably also provides an ideal route for food products not suitable in one way or another for the human route.  As for people thinking raw feeding (in particular) is difficult and time consuming, I found it to be extremely simple and little more time consuming than pouring kibble in a dish once I got organised :).  I'm also happy that at least I now know (as far as humanly possible) what is going into their food and I'm not paying a lot of money for dried food containing largely rice!  I'm sure my dogs are now on a healthier diet than mine :D.

People may have the confidence to feed their children but in latter years they haven't been doing it too well :rolleyes:  This generation is predicted to be the first to not outlive their parents, this despite health department advise as to what they should be feeding them.  Thankfully, these same people have recognised that they have even less aptitude at feeding their pets (not saying anyone cannot do this if they make the effort to learn ;)) and have allowed appropriate nutritionists to formulate their food for them.   Consequently dogs are predicted to live every bit as long as the last generation :)  Perhaps, since Jamie Oliver, people will start to catch on about how to follow scientific advise about the best food for their children too!

thats what i mean- people these days feed their children rubbish and thats why i advise to feed complete tohe complete dogs, think some parents need to to be provided with a complete food for their kids!!!
i dont feed dry food because of adverts ive seen- i dont own a tv! im not an all consuming person, i just believe if you want to do something right then you should do it properly or just stick to the complete foods. i know some people that just feed raw meat and steamed carrot and broccoli- is that a good all rounded diet?
if i found a diet for my dog- i could easily make it and feed my dog it- i just choose not to, not because im brainwashed by ads-

thought i'd clear that up- seen as though im obviously that person that no one wants to offend ;)

oh and the reason why i take nutrition seriously is due to the fact i had it drummed into me at college- i studied animal health&welfare, and DO know how important some nutrients are for a functional healthy animal- and yes therefore we eat healthily ourselves..

Chrisjack, if I had wanted to specifically aim a comment at you, I would have used your name.  My comment was NOT aimed at any one person, it was a generalised comment.

I think most people know how to eat healthy,they just choose not to :rolleyes:

Chrisjack there are many people that think like you do,hence why my post was a generalisation too :)

I think the only people being got at here Chrisjack are the manufacturers of dog food who make huge sums of money out of making people believe they don't have and can't obtain sufficient knowledge to feed their dogs without scientists' help :(.  You don't actually need to see the ads - it's all over the packaging too!  I'm not having a go at anyone who decides to stay with the processed food route if they feel that is what is best for them and their dogs. :)

<

well guys i did it- i gave flo chicken,green veg,carrots and potatoe-with bit of olive oil, i dont know if i did it right, and dont know how often i can feed it- is i ok to feed this once a week? or will there be no point?
cats loved it too!

soz for being over sensitive last night-got my theory test tomorrow and a little stressed...sorry again everybody..

x

Hi Chrisjack, glad she liked it - and the cats too!  Did you give her wings?  An important part of the barf diet is the bones.  I'm sure all your animals will enjoy it as often as you can do it.
Good luck tomorrow.