Hi all.

i have 2 Boxers, Cassy (3yrs) and Clay (14wks). I took them out for walks today (about 1/2 hour after feeding) and while walking around the park i decided to give Clay a little run with Cassy. I know I shouldn't (and won't be again) but he is so keen to go play with Cassy as she is always off her lead in the park!
Clay had been off his lead no more than 30 seconds (running the whole time) when he began to look unsteady and then suddenly fell over!
My imediate thought was bloat! But after reading a couple of links on the subject I read it is more likely to happen in deepchested dogs between ages of 4-7yrs.
After Clay fell he just lay there looking at me. I gave him a couple of minutes and then carried him to the edge of the park. Once I got Cassy back on her lead he seemed fine! He walked the rest of the way home!
Is it likely he did suffer from bloat (he eats puppy dry food soaked until soft!) or his something else wrond with him! He seems fine since it happened!

I can assure you I will not be walking or playing so close to meal times ever again as he gave me the fright of my life!

many thanks.

Michael - Happy Ney Year!

If he's fine now, it was certainly not bloat. I lost a dog to bloat three years ago, he had three serious episodes and there is no mistaking it when it happens. I wouldn't like to hazard a guess at what happened to your puppy, but if you're worried about him you must see a vet. There is alot of information about bloat, try doing a search here on Champdogs.

Dawn R.

As bloat is usually fatal without immediate veterinary attention, i would say that it definitely wasn't bloat he experieced. Sorry, have no idea what might have caused this but I would have him checked over by a vet just to be on the safe side. Hope he is ok.

I believe boxers can be affected by bloat. I keep this pinned to the kitchen notice board as it details the symptoms of bloat and what action to take.

Hi Michael
Not trying to worry you here - and your dog is very young still but it could be his heart
boxers are prone to SAS and DCM both could result in collapse during vigorous exercise...
Please ask the vet to check him over - also ask the breeder is the parents were heart tested.

Sharon

I agree with Sharon and was about to post the same.  i know boxers are a breed that can be prone to heart problems.
I NEVER walk my dogs less than 1 1/2 hours after feeding and usually over 3 hours. after 
Hope he's ok

Hi and thanks for the advice!

The thing I do not understand is he has been off his lead before and has ran for longer periods than this in the past but has had no problems before!

I have gave the breeder a call but had to leave a message as she was not home!

Thanks again!

Michael

My imediate thought was bloat! But after reading a couple of links on the subject I read it is more likely to happen in deepchested dogs between ages of 4-7yrs.

Please don't let the 'age thing' fool you. Maddie was only 17 months old when she suffered bloat :(

Glad it wasn't bloat, hope he is ok

Dee

It sounds more like some sort of fit.

I would get him to the vets for a check over :)

I read it is more likely to happen in deepchested dogs between ages of 4-7yrs.

NOOOOOOOOO

, its simply not true or GROSSLY misleading, it might be possible that more dog in that age group get hit but they get hit all ages as old as maybe in what would be their last year and as young as 18 months.

I would say boxers are deep chested dogs, but your dogs, up to you, me? I would never excercise my dogs with 3hours of their feed and never feed within 1 prefreably 2 hours after excercise.

Thanks all for your advice.
I have spoken to the breeder I got Clay from. She has over 20 years expieriance with Boxers. She told me it sounds as though when he has been running the 2 muscles which go down the chest either side of the heart have tightened and stopped the heart pumping blood which has caused him to faint!
As I do trust her I am not going to take him to the vets right away (he has been back to normal since it happened) but will wiat a few days before going!

Thanks very very much for everyones advice!

Hi Boxer owner,
Have your pup's parents been tested for their heart status?  Although Ridgebacks are my breed, I am interested in many other breeds and am aware that boxers are prone to heart conditions and that responsible breeders have their breeding stock heart tested.  If I was you, I would get an appointment at the vet's after the bank holiday, even if just for your own peace of mind, but not panic.  Best wishes.

just a question - i wondered how many people have had a dog that got bloat who was being feed Barf - Bones and raw food?

does barf or at least bones and such as chicken wings etc heighten the risk?

i have read that the chemical in 'complete' foods highten the risk! - they are not natural foods are they?

How do you personally (as a rational adult) define 'chemical' and 'natural'?

>i have read that the chemical in 'complete' foods highten the risk

I'm sure you have the internet is full of it :D

Not sure how that helped Isabel to people that own a breed that is as predisposed to bloat as Nics dog is. :(

It is a very serious issue in our breed and one that is discussed at much length and results in heartbreak for many and definitely isn't taken in a light hearted manner.

You are quite right, suitably chastened :)
I've not sure what you mean Nic, all foods contain chemicals.   There is so much contradictory research on this subject but would suggest if there was any problem with complete foods it would be more to do with the speed it is downed or the dry nature in which case it may be worth wetting the food or adding a large ball to slow down consumption.  Bloat was around before completes were introduced though so that is clearly not the whole story, unfortunately I don't think it is fully understood yet.

Hi Nic, in my case, or rather maddies, she was fed a cooked homemade diet so raw or 'commercial' didn't come into it when she bloated :) no bones neither, recreational or otherwise.

Dee

No scientific study material is yet available but anecdotal evidence appears to suggest that feeding raw MAY minimise the risk of bloat/gastric torsion, one of the reasons I moved to raw.  However dogs that have been fed raw have also suffered bloat/gastric torsion but it is unclear what other factors, if any, were present.

Bloat/Gastric Torsion is multifactorial and therefore it is very hard to pin it down to one thing.  There appears to be a familial link in some breeds ie it is more likely to occur in lines where there have been cases before, food is a factor, as is exercise and stress, etc etc etc.  It is important to know what are the particular risk factors to the INDIVIDUAL dog(s) that you have in order to minimise risks.

Another reason why it is important to have good health info on your dogs when you buy.

The Purdue study is probably the most up to date information available.

You can also check the Boxer breed council's web site for the Boxer heart list.
This list contains most dogs that have been heart tested and cleared for aortic stenosis.
<a class='url' href='http://www.boxerbreedcouncil.co.uk'>http://www.boxerbreedcouncil.co.uk</a>
The list is split into dogs and bitches and then alphabetically by their KC registered names.
Thus you should be able to trace back into the pedigree how many ancestors have been tested
and cleared.
There may be a minority of dogs which don't appear on this list due to their testing being done very recently or that their
owner has not agreed to the dog's info being listed (owners have to give permission by signing the form) that
HAVE passed testing. If the dog's don't appear on the listing I'd request to see the original certificate/s
for parents. The rest of the dogs that do not appear on the listing aren't tested or aren't tested and graded clear
(grade 0 or 1).

Unfortunately we also have cardiomyopathy that also affects the breed. It can affect the very young and old alike.
As Ridgie lover has pointed out it would be better to have your pup checked out by a vet and preferably one that
specialises in cardiology.
Fainting or exercise intolerance is NOT normal in a dog of any age and should be checked out by a vet to rule out
medical conditions.

One of my Dobe bitches got bloat earlier this year and AGAIN this Christmas day!!!!  Luckily on both occasions I got her to the vets on time.  I was obsessed by this topic for sometime but came to the conclusion that vets know how to treat bloat but do NOT know what causes it.  My vet said " some people do everything to prevent it and it happens, and some people do nothing (let them run on tummies full of food etc etc etc) and it never happens".  My friend was not so lucky this year and came back from her holidays to find her GSD bitch had died from bloat while in the boarding kennels. :-(  For those with dogs that are prone to bloat and by that I mean deep chested dogs, just read up on the subject but be aware that alot of what you read will contradict what you read elsewhere, learn the symptoms and if it does happen get your dog to the vets ASAP.  It is very stressful for both dog and owner. :-(

My litter of puppies went away armed with a HUGE amount of info on bloat.  I just hope the owners read it. 

Oh Liisa I am sorry your poor girl got it twice. Why didn't the vet perform a gastropexy the first time? Has she had it done now?  Sorry to hear about your friends dog, that must have been really awful for her :(

Hiya, thanks fo your kind words... :-)

The first time apprently her stomach had not twisted..... she was full of gas though and they gave her something to relax her stomach and squeezed gently , she blew off from both ends..... they kept her in for a few days.....  and the second time same thing again.....  Maybe they didnt operate because I had her there in time I honestly dont know..... just hope it doesnt happen again but I suspect it will as she is obviously prone to it... I watch her like a hawk!!!!

Thats exactly what happened to her. They said when she went 'under' it kinda sorted itself right and a lot of wind was passed :P but nevertheless they still tacked it to her abdomen wall. Don't know if my own vet would have done the same, cos as I said before, this happened on holiday in Devon so maybe each vet views it differently :rolleyes: Heres hoping it never happens again, though like you I still watch her and ensure rest before and after feeding.

Dee

A gastropexy will not be performed if a bloat only has occurred as the dog may not need to be opened up.

An elective gastropexy may well be performed if requested should a torsion occur, the two conditions are not synonymous.............

nope sorry, you lost me there? I didn't request the gastropexy and her tummy had righted itself (I'm sure thats what they told me )  and they did open her up. Or am I totally confusing what you said

This thread has really shocked me. What types of dogs are 'deep chested'? I have a staffy and I knew that exercising him on a full stomach was a no-no but just assumed it was coz they might get indigestion (like us). Is this a very common problem?

I don't know about staffies, but dalmatians certainly can get bloat (and die from it) and I wouldn't have classed them as being particularly deep-chested.

Hi chilipepper, it's important to understand that ANY dog can suffer bloat, it's just that the narrow but deep chested breeds are at INCREASED risk.

Narrow deep chested breeds would include, Irish Setters, Boxers, Dalmatians, Pointers, GSP, GWP, Weimaraners, Irish Wolfhounds, Dachsunds. Any breed that is narrow when veiwed from above and deeper than that, from the side.

Dawn R.

GSD are extremely prone to bloat/gastric torsion too.  However ANY breed of dog can suffer from it, I know of a Jack Russell that died of Torsion......

Hi Boxer owner, please let us know how you get on at the vet's.
Thanks